Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

[Skynet]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Oooh thanks for mentioning this, I haven't really tried hard out yet, I've mainly been playing Pro, which I enjoy, but I wouldn't mind being able to land the odd leg kick and see fewer large combos, I'll check it out.

Do you know if AI tweaks (like lowering check % for example) something that can be done through tuners or requires a full patch?

This one is a bit heftier than tuners can handle, since it requires a logic change specific to legs. The change is already in, so should be coming in the next major patch.

Sadly, leg checks will remain a bit crazy until then. My apologies.

[lopan]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

The main issue I encountered through my play yesterday was over-aggression from the A.I. (constantly moving forward into the pocket) on Normal mode. I didn't experience this on other modes. An example is playing as Jose Aldo against Frankie Edgar, and Conor against Michael Johnson; both Edgar and Johnson on Normal were constantly walking me down and staying glued to me in the pocket. On Pro difficulty, both of them completely changed up their styles, fighting off the backfoot, countering, throwing combinations, etc..

I see other people on this forum mentioning this issue on other difficulties as well, so I'm not sure what the issue is, if it's a bug, or due to playstyle or what. I'll keep playing and testing it out.

Playing on Hard difficulty gave me an experience closer to 'Pro', with the AI retaining much of it's tendencies from the Pro difficulty, but less difficult to deal with.

On Pro difficulty the A.I. is hyper-intelligent, dynamic, and makes few mistakes. I personally find it too difficult. The AI almost consistently predicts your attacks and punishes you badly for it.

Ideally, I'd like to see all the AI styles shown through at all difficulties above Easy.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Has the AI's tendency to attempt the same transition on the ground repeatedly been brought up in this thread yet?

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

This one is a bit heftier than tuners can handle, since it requires a logic change specific to legs. The change is already in, so should be coming in the next major patch.

Sadly, leg checks will remain a bit crazy until then. My apologies.

Ah well, if its fixed I'm happy.
Good work as always!

On the bright side, until the patch drops I've got some time to master perfect leg kick timing, as it's about the only way to land :P

[gbmbjj]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

How do the sliders effect the AI?

I haven't been able to see a clear cut difference when moving them around.

If I turn the AI Transition ALL THE WAY DOWN, does it mean their "transition circle" fills slower, or the frequency of their transitions?

Same with raising it? Does it make the speed in which they successfully get a transition quicker? Or just the attempts they make?

Same with damage, how does they effect everything?

[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

How do the sliders effect the AI?

I haven't been able to see a clear cut difference when moving them around.

If I turn the AI Transition ALL THE WAY DOWN, does it mean their "transition circle" fills slower, or the frequency of their transitions?

Same with raising it? Does it make the speed in which they successfully get a transition quicker? Or just the attempts they make?

Same with damage, how does they effect everything?

I can give you my impressions from messing with them a little.
Damage: greatly increase the damage per strike, for example I had it all the way up and the fight ended with one straight cross from the CPU without any set up. It essentially just makes all the strikes have more ko power regardless of set up or vulnerability (at least from what I have seen)

AI transition speed: Increases the speed that it fills. I was playing with it all the way up. And it makes the transitioning much quicker. This is nice because it feels and looks more fluid in my opinion instead of watching it in slow motion, but on the other hand it makes it much more difficult to defend against transitions because there is a smaller window due to the speed being so quick.

[gbmbjj]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

I can give you my impressions from messing with them a little.
Damage: greatly increase the damage per strike, for example I had it all the way up and the fight ended with one straight cross from the CPU without any set up. It essentially just makes all the strikes have more ko power regardless of set up or vulnerability (at least from what I have seen)

AI transition speed: Increases the speed that it fills. I was playing with it all the way up. And it makes the transitioning much quicker. This is nice because it feels and looks more fluid in my opinion instead of watching it in slow motion, but on the other hand it makes it much more difficult to defend against transitions because there is a smaller window due to the speed being so quick.

Thanks for the reply man.

Ok so interesting on the transition thing....I too would like to see a more fluid experience on the ground, but as of now, I'm really struggling to defend and deny things....so I THOUGHT I would want a slower fill for the AI, but not at the expense of slowing things down even more. Hmmmm, interesting indeed.

Would turning mine up give me an unfair advantage? Because I'm not looking for that either.

Any advice or experience with toggling on/off the HEALTH and STAMINA refills?

[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Thanks for the reply man.

Ok so interesting on the transition thing....I too would like to see a more fluid experience on the ground, but as of now, I'm really struggling to defend and deny things....so I THOUGHT I would want a slower fill for the AI, but not at the expense of slowing things down even more. Hmmmm, interesting indeed.

Would turning mine up give me an unfair advantage? Because I'm not looking for that either.

Any advice or experience with toggling on/off the HEALTH and STAMINA refills?

Yeah I would recommend going with the faster transition speed but maybe lowering the difficulty? I was testing them mostly on pro, I used up my time before I could test out on normal or hard so I can't say if that makes a difference or not.

I turned mine up all the way and it did make it easier to escape on the ground, but against really dominant grapplers or when I was a fighter with weak ground skills I still struggled. However, I was able to get up much more easily then when it was at the default setting.

As for health and stamina refills. I personally use health off and stamina on. I think it kinda depends on what you are looking for from the fights. I like having health off because I feel like it makes the wear and tear of the fight more noticeable. It does make you play a little smarter, so I usually am more cautious with when I blitz because getting caught and rocked 2, 3, 4 times in a round and surviving really increases the chance of getting slept in the next round. But I like that aspect of it. Also the long term damage to legs and body was something I enjoyed seeing as well.

With stamina, it really depends on what you have the stamina cost setting at. I personally have the cost up more and the stamina refill on. I practiced a little with the stamina off but I did not enjoy it as much. Most of the time both fighters ended up being unrealistically gassed in the 3 even when I tried playing patiently. Also many fights just looked sloppy in the 4 and 5 when I had it off. Keeping it on resulted in better fights for me; some fights there would be fighters getting gassed in a round if they blitzed or were severely out grappled but then some of the stamina came back for the next round. I also really like the mechanic of having that "reserve stamina supply" that they incorporated in the game so I did not really want to get rid of it so I tried to adjust the stamina cost to work with it.

[Skynet]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

The main issue I encountered through my play yesterday was over-aggression from the A.I. (constantly moving forward into the pocket) on Normal mode. I didn't experience this on other modes. An example is playing as Jose Aldo against Frankie Edgar, and Conor against Michael Johnson; both Edgar and Johnson on Normal were constantly walking me down and staying glued to me in the pocket. On Pro difficulty, both of them completely changed up their styles, fighting off the backfoot, countering, throwing combinations, etc..

I see other people on this forum mentioning this issue on other difficulties as well, so I'm not sure what the issue is, if it's a bug, or due to playstyle or what. I'll keep playing and testing it out.

Playing on Hard difficulty gave me an experience closer to 'Pro', with the AI retaining much of it's tendencies from the Pro difficulty, but less difficult to deal with.

On Pro difficulty the A.I. is hyper-intelligent, dynamic, and makes few mistakes. I personally find it too difficult. The AI almost consistently predicts your attacks and punishes you badly for it.

Ideally, I'd like to see all the AI styles shown through at all difficulties above Easy.

You're actually spot on. The AI is setup on easy and normal to stay closer to the opponent, because we found in testing that newer users (who tend to play there) had too much trouble with range-y AIs. They couldn't corner them, couldn't engage them, and were often frustrated trying to play against them.

Hard, Pro, and Legendary do not have this, and will fight more like their real world counterparts. Given that Hard isn't really that much more difficult that Normal, I'm inclined to keep things as is...but perhaps that logic should change to include everything juust below Normal.

[Skynet]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

How do the sliders effect the AI?

I haven't been able to see a clear cut difference when moving them around.

If I turn the AI Transition ALL THE WAY DOWN, does it mean their "transition circle" fills slower, or the frequency of their transitions?

Same with raising it? Does it make the speed in which they successfully get a transition quicker? Or just the attempts they make?

Same with damage, how does they effect everything?

None of the sliders directly effect AI logic, per se. All the sliders effect AI and users in the same way, like modifying their stats. So since there isn't a slider to change your own playstyle, they don't really do that to the AI either.

However, since the AI is taking their stats/health/stamina into account, it does impact them in that nature.

For things like transitions, it speeds up or slows down the attempt but doesn't change how often they try to go for it. If you were to increase stamina consumption, however, it would cause the AI to want to rest more often, which would technically change that behavior, but not in a direct way. Does that make sense??

This is why tuning the AI can be so difficult some times, they are heavily integrated systems where touching one thing has a butterfly effect to places you don't always intend, and there is rarely a single knob to do the exact one thing you want...

[gbmbjj]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

You're actually spot on. The AI is setup on easy and normal to stay closer to the opponent, because we found in testing that newer users (who tend to play there) had too much trouble with range-y AIs. They couldn't corner them, couldn't engage them, and were often frustrated trying to play against them.

Hard, Pro, and Legendary do not have this, and will fight more like their real world counterparts. Given that Hard isn't really that much more difficult that Normal, I'm inclined to keep things as is...but perhaps that logic should change to include everything juust below Normal.

Interesting. Thanks for your input.

So if Pro is "too hard", would it be safe to say that messing around with the sliders might provide a bit of relief when it comes to getting smashed in the grappling department? Perhaps providing more of a stamina tax for the AI by adjusting?

I'd like to have that real world experience, but not at the cost of utterly drowning once the fight hits the mat, or even in stand up for that matter.

[lopan]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

You're actually spot on. The AI is setup on easy and normal to stay closer to the opponent, because we found in testing that newer users (who tend to play there) had too much trouble with range-y AIs. They couldn't corner them, couldn't engage them, and were often frustrated trying to play against them.

Hard, Pro, and Legendary do not have this, and will fight more like their real world counterparts. Given that Hard isn't really that much more difficult that Normal, I'm inclined to keep things as is...but perhaps that logic should change to include everything juust below Normal.

Thanks for the reply. I totally agree that the logic should be applied to Normal difficulty as well. Although I'm getting better the more I play (and I played the Beta), I find the AI on Pro and even Hard to be a little too 'cheaty' at times. They're ability to read your strikes/movement and counter you can feel a little cheap at times. I also find that they check leg kicks a bit too well.

I've always liked Normal mode in past UFC games because the AI feels less telepathic in reading your moves and you get a little bit more casual paced matches. I think it makes sense to include the basic 'style logic' at this difficulty but if possible, tune down the AI's ability to read/counter strikes.

[Skynet]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Interesting. Thanks for your input.

So if Pro is "too hard", would it be safe to say that messing around with the sliders might provide a bit of relief when it comes to getting smashed in the grappling department? Perhaps providing more of a stamina tax for the AI by adjusting?

I'd like to have that real world experience, but not at the cost of utterly drowning once the fight hits the mat, or even in stand up for that matter.

Yeah, you can certainly do that. That's what the sliders are there for. Either make pro a bit easier, or make hard a bit harder. What ever gets you closer to a better experience for your playstyle.

[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Interesting. Thanks for your input.

So if Pro is "too hard", would it be safe to say that messing around with the sliders might provide a bit of relief when it comes to getting smashed in the grappling department? Perhaps providing more of a stamina tax for the AI by adjusting?

I'd like to have that real world experience, but not at the cost of utterly drowning once the fight hits the mat, or even in stand up for that matter.

I would highly recommend increasing the stamina cost. I’ve found it makes the AI more realistic with their attacking and with grappling then the default. Again just my opinion but I would try it out

[aholbert32]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

I would highly recommend increasing the stamina cost. I’ve found it makes the AI more realistic with their attacking and with grappling then the default. Again just my opinion but I would try it out

This. It slows their pace down considerably in my opinion.