Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

[LittleEvil]

This needs a separate thread, since both GPD and aholbert have this line of thinking. I played a fight vs AI where in the first min I was outstruck by maybe 5-10 strikes. The other 4 min? I advanced to mount and the back and landed short strikes. The judges didn't give me the round. According to GPD and aholbert, that's realistic. Im just curious how many people agree, and think maintaining mount = doing nothing (GPD own words) and I deserved to lose that round. Making an individual thread cause its honestly scary they have this line of thinking to me, so it deserves its own attention rather than being lost in the cluster of the general judging thread.

[fballturkey]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

If you’re just maintaining mount and not posturing up for potentially fight ending GNP or going for subs then you’re doing nothing.

It’s like the lay and pray that was scored all over the place even before the new judging criteria devalued control.

[Serengeti1]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

Damage is much more important than control. That's how the system is. We can't see the striking exchanges you're talking about so it's difficult to judge.

But if he was to have rocked you... and all you did was sit in postured down mount... I think the guy who rocks you should get the round. It's subjective though. It's also an issue because who sits in postured down mount for 4 minutes? lol.

Let's say there was no rock tho... You'd have to give the round to you under the circumstances you described. I'd also be interested in which strikes landed too though.

I remember there being controversy over the Magny/Hendricks fight. So let's use that as an example as I think it's a decent one. Magny landed a bunch of hard kicks on the feet but Hendricks held him down for the majority of at least 1 or 2 rounds and did nothing. Magny won the fight and it was like the majority thought it was a bad decision. It really wasn't imo. Holding someone down but not doing damage isn't how you win a fight. Damage is judged initially and control is looked at after if minds aren't made up based on the damage dealt.

A lot of fans are still stuck in the past on this imo and put too much stock into what control does for scoring.

[LittleEvil]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

If you’re just maintaining mount and not posturing up for potentially fight ending GNP or going for subs then you’re doing nothing.

It’s like the lay and pray that was scored all over the place even before the new judging criteria devalued control.

Damn. I'm honestly shocked so many people don't realize maintaining a position as dominant as mount with peppering strikes for 4 mins is going to win you a round over barely being outstruck for a min. I will concede if everyone continues this line of thinking, but just damn......

[LittleEvil]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

Damage is much more important than control. That's how the system is. We can't see the striking exchanges you're talking about so it's difficult to judge.

But if he was to have rocked you... and all you did was sit in postured down mount... I think the guy who rocks you should get the round. It's subjective though. It's also an issue because who sits in postured down mount for 4 minutes? lol.

Let's say there was no rock tho... You'd have to give the round to you under the circumstances you described. I'd also be interested in which strikes landed too though.

I remember there being controversy over the Magny/Hendricks fight. So let's use that as an example as I think it's a decent one. Magny landed a bunch of hard kicks on the feet but Hendricks held him down for the majority of at least 1 or 2 rounds and did nothing. Magny won the fight and it was like the majority thought it was a bad decision. It really wasn't imo. Holding someone down but not doing damage isn't how you win a fight. Damage is judged initially and control is looked at after if minds aren't made up based on the damage dealt.

A lot of fans are still stuck in the past on this imo and put too much stock into what control does for scoring.

I know I don't have video, but hopefully its not hard to imagine a guy just landing 5 more hooks than me which is basically what happened. No rocks or knockdowns or anything close. And again, I controlled mount and back with peppering strikes for 4 mins. That's 80% of the round. I'll continue to be baffled there are actually people who disagree with me, but luckily you're aware I should get the round. Somehow took 4-5 people disagreeing with me to get to you lol that scares me but its nice finally someone came along who is well aware there is NO WAY I shouldn't be given the round under what I described. Also, I can't call Magny/Hendricks a proper example cause Neil worked from his back and Johny just hugged a leg. In my fight, it was 4 MINUTES OF MOUNT!!!!! and apparently GPD thinks its OK barely losing the striking in the other minute makes it ok for me to lose the round

[fballturkey]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

Even if people 75% think the round should’ve gone to you, just like in real life nobody is going to feel bad for a lay and prayer getting punished by the judges. If you’ve got that much control for that long you ought to be doing something with it.

[Boiler569]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

I had a guy (a top 30 guy who will go unnamed) put me in Mount with GSP last night; I was Lawler.

He literally just sat in unpostured mount for 3 minutes waiting for me to try to move so he could counter.

I tried all the tricks in the book but he kept denying me.

So eventually I just sat there for for about a minute (2 minutes of game time) ---- he finally got bored and tried to posture up, and I escaped lol

Morale of the story? Be patient when mounted.

Also, Ref should stand you up even if you have someone fully mounted, if you haven't moved (besides to deny transitions) for 2 minutes of game time

[Serengeti1]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

I know I don't have video, but hopefully its not hard to imagine a guy just landing 5 more hooks than me which is basically what happened. No rocks or knockdowns or anything close. And again, I controlled mount and back with peppering strikes for 4 mins. That's 80% of the round. I'll continue to be baffled there are actually people who disagree with me, but luckily you're aware I should get the round. Somehow took 4-5 people disagreeing with me to get to you lol that scares me but its nice finally someone came along who is well aware there is NO WAY I shouldn't be given the round under what I described. Also, I can't call Magny/Hendricks a proper example cause Neil worked from his back and Johny just hugged a leg. In my fight, it was 4 MINUTES OF MOUNT!!!!! and apparently GPD thinks its OK barely losing the striking in the other minute makes it ok for me to lose the round

You're right about Magny working off his back. I couldn't believe so many people thought Hendricks won at the time.

Masvidal/Maia is probably a better example with what you described. It was a split decision though... So that shows you the subjectivity.

Masvidal landed a few more strikes on the feet but was controlled for long portions of rounds. Maia didn't really get anywhere (other than maintain dominant positions) and didn't do much damage though.

In the example you've given here... It's difficult to not give you the round though. Especially since you were landing small strikes on the ground.

[LittleEvil]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

Even if people 75% think the round should’ve gone to you, just like in real life nobody is going to feel bad for a lay and prayer getting punished by the judges. If you’ve got that much control for that long you ought to be doing something with it.

Since when is getting mount and peppering someone from there "lay and pray"? And do you honestly think if someone was barely outstruck for 4 min, than dominated with mount control for the other 4 min, people wouldn't feel bad if he wasn't given the round? Lay and pray is hugging in the guard without advancing or striking, not getting one of the most dominant positions, maintaining it, and peppering the guy on bottom with short shots

[fballturkey]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

Since when is getting mount and peppering someone from there "lay and pray"? And do you honestly think if someone was barely outstruck for 4 min, than dominated with mount control for the other 4 min, people wouldn't feel bad if he wasn't given the round? Lay and pray is hugging in the guard without advancing or striking, not getting one of the most dominant positions, maintaining it, and peppering the guy on bottom with short shots

If the strikes were from a postured up position you have a legit beef. If they were from postured down those are not considered significant strikes (in game or in real life) and don’t really count for anything.

[LittleEvil]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

You're right about Magny working off his back. I couldn't believe so many people thought Hendricks won at the time.

Masvidal/Maia is probably a better example with what you described. It was a split decision though... So that shows you the subjectivity.

Masvidal landed a few more strikes on the feet but was controlled for long portions of rounds. Maia didn't really get anywhere (other than maintain dominant positions) and didn't do much damage though.

In the example you've given here... It's difficult to not give you the round though. Especially since you were landing small strikes on the ground.

Yeah in the general judging thread this was the best example someone who disagreed with me could come up with. I pointed him to mmadecisions.com showing all 23 media members giving Maia the decision, but to him they are horrible so that didn't count......But I appreciate you recognizing I should get the round when not only am I maintaining these highly dominant positions, but also striking. For the sake of argument, Maia barely struck in that first round. Just maintained back control while Mas was standing. I had my opponent on the mat, getting dominated by mount, while peppering w strikes. I couldn't be more baffled GPD thinks that doesn't constitute a winning round.

[LittleEvil]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

If the strikes were from a postured up position you have a legit beef. If they were from postured down those are not considered significant strikes (in game or in real life) and don’t really count for anything.

But your focus is solely on the strikes. If a guy barely outstrikes you on the feet, don't you think in real life if you have mount for 4 mins after youre going to win the round? Id see your point if I just laid in guard and did nothing. Id see your point if I had mount and peppered strikes for only half the round. But we are talking about mount control for 4 mins without a significant difference in striking in the first min. Im sorry if I seem stubborn about this, Im just having a really hard time imagining the guy in my position irl would ever NOT win the round

[fballturkey]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

But your focus is solely on the strikes. If a guy barely outstrikes you on the feet, don't you think in real life if you have mount for 4 mins after youre going to win the round? Id see your point if I just laid in guard and did nothing. Id see your point if I had mount and peppered strikes for only half the round. But we are talking about mount control for 4 mins without a significant difference in striking in the first min. Im sorry if I seem stubborn about this, Im just having a really hard time imagining the guy in my position irl would ever NOT win the round

So you’re saying you didn’t even posture up and strike.

Whether or not I think you deserved to lose the round, I’m really glad you did.

Edit: And since you’ve talked examples, can you find one of someone getting outstruck and then holding dominant position for most of a round but refusing to do absolutely anything with it?

[Nugget7211]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

http://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/juding_criteriascoring_rev0816.pdf

Here is the current scoring criteria if anyone hasn't read them

[fballturkey]

Re: Maintining Mount = Doing Nothing.....

http://www.abcboxing.com/wp-content/...ng_rev0816.pdf

Here is the current scoring criteria if anyone hasn't read them

So, since nothing LittleEvil was doing was potentially contributing to the end of the match it was scored correctly.