Combo Spam

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Combo Spam

Of sways - damage. So in a sense when you go to evade using head movement (as it was intended) you're now punished even more when they're spamming combos and sways with alternating patterns.

Just far too safe to spam right now and not enough penalty. We should have to intelligently pick our shots!

Hold on... did the patch increase sway vulnerability? I don't think it did. A previous patch had done it, but the latest changes decreased the vuln. And the current patch decreased the counter bonus.

If you still think some vuln was increased, please clarify. I'm curious.

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Combo Spam

Hold on... did the patch increase sway vulnerability? I don't think it did. A previous patch had done it, but the latest changes decreased the vuln. And the current patch decreased the counter bonus.

If you still think some vuln was increased, please clarify. I'm curious.

As far as your vulnerability when you're doing head movement not the counter damage output of a sway punch.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Combo Spam

As far as your vulnerability when you're doing head movement not the counter damage output of a sway punch.

OK.

This patch didn't touch that vuln. And the previous change had decreased it. The change befffoooore that one was the one that had increased that vuln, which I also hated. But, as I said, the change before this patch reduced it to a point in between the old values and the crazy high ones. I think it's quite alright now, but if head movement were to nerfed in anotehr way, I'd like to see its vuln reduced even further, TBH.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Combo Spam

Even if you just wanted a drastic stamina change it still matters. The big fuss is that people can just walk you down with combos without running out of long term stamina (something that isn’t even necessarily true). This means you inherently believe combos are overpowered and you probably have a difficult time countering them if you think a stamina nerf is needed. That is unless you’re looking at it from a purely realism stand point. In that case I wholly disagree.

I had the exact same issue with guys constantly coming forward with head movement strikes. The issue was that there was no incentive for the attacker to be methodical with it. The stamina system is meant to be there to limit how much you can attack. Also, I was against the head movement stamina cost because I didn't think head movement itself was ever a problem. Head movement is a lot of fun and should be used more as an additional defense mechanism to avoid damage. It should not be always used to try and land counter hits, which was the actual problem.

This is a game and I have no desire to be limited to 40 strikes a round, especially with an accelerated clock being the base option selected.

For what it is worth, I have been advocating real time rounds since Undisputed 09. I would personally either do real time rounds or get rid of 3-round-fights as I think the current 3-round-fights are too short to make adjustments. Also, what is wrong with the proposed 60-75 limit? That's 50%+ more than your amount.

Stamina is already in a good place if you know what you’re doing, which clearly many of you do not. I know it sucks being told that and you think I’m just some jagov telling you that gitting gud is the answer, but it really is.

This whole git gud thing opens such a big can of worms I don't know if this is even worth addressing. Do we want to balance the game around the one player who is capable of beating an otherwise popular and dominant tactic? Why is it not a requirement to "git gud" at efficient and effective strike selection? Why does the defender need to "git gud" to prevent an easily doable tactic?

Also, in that ESFL fight that you are so proud of you two went 70/246 and 89/291 and you were practically full stamina. You had a whopping 28% strike accuracy throwing 97 strikes a round. Maybe I'm crazy but regardless of player skill missing 70 strikes a round should have an effect on your stamina. If not why even have stamina to begin with?

Blocking these shots will certainly drain their stamina and to be straight up told by you guys that it won’t is like a slap in the face. You’re literally injecting your own reality in the face of objective reality. Play with some lower tier guys and you’ll see how stamina really plays a role even if you aren’t throwing heat. And if you’re basing this off Ultimate Team, quit playing it and pick a mode that doesn’t suck.

A slap in the face? You're taking this too personally then. Also, using unviable trash tier characters to argue stamina is good is even less valid than using Ultimate Team. Nobody uses trash tier characters.

The amount of people I run into in quick match that think they’re gonna just throw straights or hooks over and over is insane. I have no doubt this actually works against worse players because they wouldn’t keep doing it if it didn’t and you guys wouldn’t be complaining.

Those guys also rage quit if they're stuck on the ground for more than ten seconds. Obviously we are not complaining about guys who just come up and throw 6 hooks in a row. I have been avoiding using the word "spam" because it diminishes the whole argument. Obviously the guys don't just literally throw strikes with empty stamina. What they do is they put out a steady high volume of strikes that is more sustainable than blocking them, and they recover their max stamina quicker than you regain your block. If you get in a situation where your block is low then you are more or less forced to go for a coin flip dash or head movement. I should be punished for getting in a bad spot like that but the issue is my original point which is that counterplaying it is more difficult and less rewarding than doing it yourself. Maybe you're just such an elite player that outplaying comes naturally to you.

This game will never be what you want it to be. Time to buckle down.

Pretty sure the devs wanted the players to use all the new tools they created rather than play Undisputed 2 with the sway strikes and now UFC 2 with the combos. That's why they keep band-aid fixing the popular meta tactics that all involved hard pressuring the opponent with difficult counter play. Even if they made combos weaker people will just move onto the next best pressure tactic as long as the game supports it. Obviously there should be some form of aggression because you don't want guys to start coasting rounds carefree but like I keep saying, why not put the burden of outplay on the attacker? A simple striking tactic is landing leg/body kicks to set up a head kick. However, if you are too obvious with your kicks the defender can time a counter strike.

The part that baffles me the most is that with your 97 strikes a round you're not even a part of the problem. I don't see why you would be so vehemently against nerfing excessive strike volume (speaking 120+ per round here) when it would not even affect you.

[Dankoz]

Re: Combo Spam

It's impossible to catch anyone when he is throwing combos, your not able to counter him through that combo spam at all. Only way to counter is in first punch. Game was better at first place when you was really able to counter even leg kicks and you lost enough stamina about missing strikes. Now you can just spam everything because close range strikes doesn't really take stamina away at all. Also uppercut spam has been way bigger issue for me than before the patch.

[ryangil23]

Re: Combo Spam

I had the exact same issue with guys constantly coming forward with head movement strikes. The issue was that there was no incentive for the attacker to be methodical with it. The stamina system is meant to be there to limit how much you can attack. Also, I was against the head movement stamina cost because I didn't think head movement itself was ever a problem. Head movement is a lot of fun and should be used more as an additional defense mechanism to avoid damage. It should not be always used to try and land counter hits, which was the actual problem.



For what it is worth, I have been advocating real time rounds since Undisputed 09. I would personally either do real time rounds or get rid of 3-round-fights as I think the current 3-round-fights are too short to make adjustments. Also, what is wrong with the proposed 60-75 limit? That's 50%+ more than your amount.




This whole git gud thing opens such a big can of worms I don't know if this is even worth addressing. Do we want to balance the game around the one player who is capable of beating an otherwise popular and dominant tactic? Why is it not a requirement to "git gud" at efficient and effective strike selection? Why does the defender need to "git gud" to prevent an easily doable tactic?

Also, in that ESFL fight that you are so proud of you two went 70/246 and 89/291 and you were practically full stamina. You had a whopping 28% strike accuracy throwing 97 strikes a round. Maybe I'm crazy but regardless of player skill missing 70 strikes a round should have an effect on your stamina. If not why even have stamina to begin with?



A slap in the face? You're taking this too personally then. Also, using unviable trash tier characters to argue stamina is good is even less valid than using Ultimate Team. Nobody uses trash tier characters.



Those guys also rage quit if they're stuck on the ground for more than ten seconds. Obviously we are not complaining about guys who just come up and throw 6 hooks in a row. I have been avoiding using the word "spam" because it diminishes the whole argument. Obviously the guys don't just literally throw strikes with empty stamina. What they do is they put out a steady high volume of strikes that is more sustainable than blocking them, and they recover their max stamina quicker than you regain your block. If you get in a situation where your block is low then you are more or less forced to go for a coin flip dash or head movement. I should be punished for getting in a bad spot like that but the issue is my original point which is that counterplaying it is more difficult and less rewarding than doing it yourself. Maybe you're just such an elite player that outplaying comes naturally to you.



Pretty sure the devs wanted the players to use all the new tools they created rather than play Undisputed 2 with the sway strikes and now UFC 2 with the combos. That's why they keep band-aid fixing the popular meta tactics that all involved hard pressuring the opponent with difficult counter play. Even if they made combos weaker people will just move onto the next best pressure tactic as long as the game supports it. Obviously there should be some form of aggression because you don't want guys to start coasting rounds carefree but like I keep saying, why not put the burden of outplay on the attacker? A simple striking tactic is landing leg/body kicks to set up a head kick. However, if you are too obvious with your kicks the defender can time a counter strike.

The part that baffles me the most is that with your 97 strikes a round you're not even a part of the problem. I don't see why you would be so vehemently against nerfing excessive strike volume (speaking 120+ per round here) when it would not even affect you.

I don't think he realises people are talking about the ones who use a lot of combos but know what they're doing, not the ones who do the exact same thing every single time or sit there and empty their tank completely.

And by combo spam I'm sure we all mean hook and uppercut spam. If someone sways and keeos throwing 4 piece hook and uppercut combos you basically have to try and guess which way they're going to sway.

[Thetruth9012]

Re: Combo Spam

Yeah when there's no stamina tax you really don't even have to play the game to connect the dots in that regard.

1) Reduced Block break down time

2) Reduced stamina loss on rocks

3) Reduced stamina loss from evaded strikes

4) Increased vulnerability

All of these things paint the picture for pressure combo cheese. It's infuriating that it's easy to see in plain text, but is generally defended when challenged.

Movement speed needs reduced, stamina loss increased and power increased in a general sense. This game would be much better.

Instead we have a TRT Vitor's Blitz 2018!

There's nothing intelligent or high level about Top 100 striking - it's let me beat on your block with 3 alternating combos that if you mistime your interrupt you're paying for it.

Such low risk to spam and alternate combos with immense potential for high reward.

Agree was playing yesterday and thats what people do.

[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Re: Combo Spam

This is definitely the main issue right now. We need more effective tools to keep distance.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Combo Spam

Do people really think that 150+ strikes a round (with accelerated clock mind you) and coming out next round with the same stamina if not more in instances than a guy that threw 70 less strikes than you is okay?

[ryangil23]

Re: Combo Spam

Do people really think that 150+ strikes a round (with accelerated clock mind you) and coming out next round with the same stamina if not more in instances than a guy that threw 70 less strikes than you is okay?

Especially with someone like Romero

[WarMMA]

Re: Combo Spam

Do people really think that 150+ strikes a round (with accelerated clock mind you) and coming out next round with the same stamina if not more in instances than a guy that threw 70 less strikes than you is okay?

Exactly. That's just straight bs.

[Boiler569]

Re: Combo Spam

Fought a Woodley last night

First Round ---- 140 total strikes; 68 sig strikes ---- just about 50% accuracy (so he was actually relatively accurate)

Came out 2nd round with at least 90% Stam, probably a bit more.

Good news was that it was a 5-round fight so I was able to let him burn-out, step back a few times to make him whiff, and work the body. So by round 4 he really did have a nice stamina deficit and I was able to finish him. At the time though he was winning on points from sheer volume.....Woulda been a 3-round decision loss for me, if it wasn't a championship fight, which woulda been quite annoying lol

(about 120 strikes per round in round 2 and 3)


The head movement tax definitely helped ---- without it, idk if I would have been able to beat him to be honest.

A slight increase in striking tax --- similar to head movement tax; nothing HUGE but just a tad --- would really bring things into line IMO

[Boiler569]

Re: Combo Spam

This is definitely the main issue right now. We need more effective tools to keep distance.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I fought a different Woodley guy who literally was GLUED to me just throwing shots and spamming head movement.

Did EVERYTHING I could to lunge back/circle/escape but man he was glued to me, literally toe to toe 90% of the time lol

I ended up getting too impatient and let him KO me even though if I had played it smart, I probably woulda won.

He was another 120+ strike per round, head movement spamming bum. But he's pretty damn 'good' at it --- but i got his number next time. I swear!!! lol

[WarMMA]

Re: Combo Spam

A slight increase in striking tax --- similar to head movement tax; nothing HUGE but just a tad --- would really bring things into line IMO

Pretty much this.

[ryangil23]

Re: Combo Spam

Looool just had a player walk me down and just throw stationary hooks and uppercuts. Tried to use head movement to start with and try and counter but ended up getting KOd. I matched with him again and started standing right in front of him and doing exactly the same as he did - basically holding L1 and spamming X and triangle along with some uppercuts and I KOd him easily.

Both of us standing there holding high block and basically just swinging until they tried to swing back or the block broke. Really.