Combo Spam

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Combo Spam

Can we rewind for a second here

I feel like the guys opposing us are completely missing the point. Our issues are(and OP please correct me if im wrong):

1) stamina not draining enough when strikes are blocked
2) Combos not taking enough stamina in general

NOT

Combos being OP or unpunishable. Can we stop bringing that up because no one is arguing otherwise or even cares.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Combo Spam

I'm belittling you because you guys come at this with an obvious bias of not experiencing proper play at the highest levels. When someone ranked higher than me (like Kenetic) says something, I shut the hell up and listen. You'd do well to practice that.

Why on Earth would you just blindly listen to an authority? If he came here and told you combos are broken would you just do a total 180? No, because you'd expect reasoning. That's the difference between y'all, Kenetic can actually explain himself.

You referencing the head movement nerf as evidence that the devs want less punishment packed in the rounds is flawed.

And what I actually said is that your worry about the lack of "package in a 2.30 round" is unfounded because there have been plenty of instances where people thought actions did too much damage. It's an example of people thinking something was too powerful because of the damage it dealt. Naturally, if the expected pace of the fight went down we could then increase damage to make sure a 2.30 (or 5.00 as I'd prefer) has enough damage to satiate everyone.

They did that because the head movement allowed players to gain an absurd advantage and force a gameplay style on people

This is the exact same thing we are saying about combos. You just dismiss it because git gud.

(something that "combo spam" doesn't do to good players no matter how often it crushes you). It had nothing to do with limiting the amount of damage down overall.

Friendly reminder: My issue with all the meta tactics has been that they are much easier to execute than to defend against. If you and your 2 friends think you have no trouble defending it it doesn't invalidate the rest of the player base. For what little it is worth, I reached division 5 with my casual pleb playstyle which still makes me better than 95% of the playerbase. However, the difference between top 1% and top 5% is larger than let's say top 5% and top 40%. Really the only reason I bring this up is so we can avoid a strawman of why not get rid of ground game all together because the vast majority of players wanna bang. There should be a nice balance of competence and population nahmean?

What a massive leap in logic.

Y'all are the ones interpreting nerfing 120+ strikes per round tactics as us wanting a 100% hardcore sim where missing a jab results in a stamina loss.

There is nothing wrong with missing most of my strikes if what I'm throwing is mainly double jabs at full stamina and allowing it to fully regenerate before doing it again.

Just please watch your fight. You admittedly throw more double-jabs than singular (those can be counted with two hands I think) but you throw the typical meta combos. The only difference is that when you get a stamina/block advantage you back off. If you actually watch the tape you'd notice that.

Mac was playing differently because we were in a high stakes match in the ESFL to determine our new rank in the league. I've already explained that but you clearly have no desire to actually listen. You want to bombard people with your viewpoint.

Well for one, you missed the point. The point was why can he throw 130 strikes per round and not gas to begin with? Actually, since you're such a mentor I would love you to break down that match and tell me how you'd handle him there. Please Senpai!

Second, are you saying that the way he plays in ranked is a relatively easy way of beating people outside the top 40 and he only needs to try and think against the top tier super duper elite ultra players who are the only people skilled enough to beat said tactic? Because, that's like, my whole issue, dude. Except that you don't need to be a top 40 player yourself to do that vs us mortals.

Also, if that quote of you was posted in here and not somewhere else, I apologize for the oversight, however you can see how I would with the sheer amount of text you're throwing at me.

You seem to be able to find the QUOTE button just fine with other dudes so surely you can do the same with me. =)

you're basically making our point for us, thats vs Kizzler someone I know and we have quick matches where no one really cares who wins and loses, the same volum of strikes aren't thrown in ESFL because its a higher level and people care more and its too risky. I'm not going to risk getting knocked down 5 times vs someone in ESFL.

I also dont care about how I play in ranked its not a measure of me as a player I played afro the other day and beat him with Aljo sterling throwing between a conservative and medium amount of strikes.

There is no hard and fast rule of what "too many" strikes are just what you want them to be.

Y'all are equally skilled in terms of reading comprehension, I see. I'll try again.

The issue (for me) is not whether it works against everyone. There are two issues. The first issue is that it does not matter where you are top 5% or top 50% player, throwing 120+ strikes per round should be inherently stamina taxing because it makes no sense from realism standpoint and it makes the game less fun. The second issue is that it does not matter if there are 40 players who are skilled enough to counter it when there are 9 960 other players whose enjoyment gets ruined because of it. Your little fight cards get less viewers than YouTube videos of school kids taking poops. You live in your own little bubble.

Let me add that there is NO issue with the block not recharging faster than my stamina. That's the WHOLE REASON the block doesn't go up. To give you time to regen and keep firing. The block breaks down like that so you cant just hold it without getting clobbered and even then it's tough to keep it down and land good damage sometimes without losing a ton of stamina.

You have to ACT. You cannot be purely defensive in that way. You must lunge or sway or fire back. Note that you will often be at a greater stamina advantage than the guy who just wasted theirs hitting your block. SO then attack the body or work on breaking their block down. Their stamina goes much slower when holding block, so YOU have the advantage after blocking. Blowing your stamina on a block against a high level player is a death sentence.

It's evident you guys are sitting there and taking the first punch(es) of a combo and trying to fire back and getting blasted by the rest of the combo. Then you decide to block every punch and do nothing. Total skill deficit issue here.

Glad you stopped acting oblivious and admit that it exists. However, literally all those things worked against sway strikes if done right and they were still a problem. The issue still is that there are/have been offensive tactics with very low skill floor that require a comparatively high skill ceiling just to survive let alone neutralize.

Also, the Devs intended the block breaks to be a short-term strategy to follow up on rocked opponents rather than the core of the whole striking. The whole idea was that you would trade your stamina for a finish rather than win a long war of attrition by peppering the opponent.

Can we rewind for a second here

I feel like the guys opposing us are completely missing the point. Our issues are(and OP please correct me if im wrong):

1) stamina not draining enough when strikes are blocked
2) Combos not taking enough stamina in general

NOT

Combos being OP or unpunishable. Can we stop bringing that up because no one is arguing otherwise or even cares.

I wouldn't exactly put it that way. I'd say that the issue is that there should be an inherent stamina cost for attempting too much in a round (whether that is sway strikes, lunges, takedowns, clinch attempts, submissions et cetera). If you want to be aggressive and finish fights early it should be up to you to make the reads and outplays and if you fail you fall behind. Right now it is the defender who has to make the outplay just to survive a straight-forward tactic.

But basically yeah. If you throw (and especially don't land) 70 combos it should hurt your stamina obviously.

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Combo Spam

Can we rewind for a second here

I feel like the guys opposing us are completely missing the point. Our issues are(and OP please correct me if im wrong):

1) stamina not draining enough when strikes are blocked
2) Combos not taking enough stamina in general

NOT

Combos being OP or unpunishable. Can we stop bringing that up because no one is arguing otherwise or even cares.

Exactly my point

[ZHunter1990]

Re: Combo Spam

Your little fight cards get less viewers than YouTube videos of school kids taking poops.

Ouch, man...ouch.

[MaccaC]

Re: Combo Spam

Y'all are equally skilled in terms of reading comprehension, I see. I'll try again.

The issue (for me) is not whether it works against everyone. There are two issues. The first issue is that it does not matter where you are top 5% or top 50% player, throwing 120+ strikes per round should be inherently stamina taxing because it makes no sense from realism standpoint and it makes the game less fun. The second issue is that it does not matter if there are 40 players who are skilled enough to counter it when there are 9 960 other players whose enjoyment gets ruined because of it. Your little fight cards get less viewers than YouTube videos of school kids taking poops. You live in your own little bubble.

You lose any and all credibility (whatever you had) the second your argument turns to ITS NOT REALISTIC, no **** this isn't a sim its a fighting game masquarading as a sports game.

You think you want realism, you dont. You think these things because you don't know any better, I don't blame you. If someone served you a **** sandwhich of course you'd think a ham sandwhich would be better unfortunately for you and the masses eating their dry butties the rest of us are dining at the grand banquet feasting on the finest middle eastern delights.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

You lose any and all credibility (whatever you had) the second your argument turns to ITS NOT REALISTIC, no **** this isn't a sim its a fighting game masquarading as a sports game.

You think you want realism, you dont. You think these things because you don't know any better, I don't blame you. If someone served you a **** sandwhich of course you'd think a ham sandwhich would be better unfortunately for you and the masses eating their dry butties the rest of us are dining at the grand banquet feasting on the finest middle eastern delights.

Oh man, I'm dead. Hahahaha

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Combo Spam

You lose any and all credibility (whatever you had) the second your argument turns to ITS NOT REALISTIC, no **** this isn't a sim its a fighting game masquarading as a sports game.

You think you want realism, you dont. You think these things because you don't know any better, I don't blame you. If someone served you a **** sandwhich of course you'd think a ham sandwhich would be better unfortunately for you and the masses eating their dry butties the rest of us are dining at the grand banquet feasting on the finest middle eastern delights.

No its a sport game, published by EA SPORTS. Is MMA a sport or is it fighting?
That same argument can be used for is F1 a motor sports game or a driving game.

Im pretty sure most people want a game about a sport to be a reflection of that sport.

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Combo Spam

No its a sport game, published by EA SPORTS. Is MMA a sport or is it fighting?
That same argument can be used for is F1 a motor sports game or a driving game.

Im pretty sure most people want a game about a sport to be a reflection of that sport.

Preach!

This game is currently a weird cross between an acrade fighter like MK and a sim.

Those don't mesh

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Combo Spam

You lose any and all credibility (whatever you had) the second your argument turns to ITS NOT REALISTIC, no **** this isn't a sim its a fighting game masquarading as a sports game.

You think you want realism, you dont. You think these things because you don't know any better, I don't blame you. If someone served you a **** sandwhich of course you'd think a ham sandwhich would be better unfortunately for you and the masses eating their dry butties the rest of us are dining at the grand banquet feasting on the finest middle eastern delights.

Y'all are the ones interpreting nerfing 120+ strikes per round tactics as us wanting a 100% hardcore sim where missing a jab results in a stamina loss.

You two in a nutshell. Just incapable of reading. Since we are doing the cringy food metaphors, you're the guy who's only eaten McDonald's burgers (UFC) and thinks they're comparable to a steakhouse (Traditional fighting games with actual depth and nuance). Embrace being fast food. UFC/Fight Night and traditional sports games are about as similar as Call of Duty and Unreal Tournament. Technically they're under the same genre but they function completely differently.

Oh man, I'm dead. Hahahaha

Guess you ran outta arguments again mate. It's OK you tried.

No its a sport game, published by EA SPORTS. Is MMA a sport or is it fighting?
That same argument can be used for is F1 a motor sports game or a driving game.

Im pretty sure most people want a game about a sport to be a reflection of that sport.

Yup. While obviously avoiding the negative aspects, such as bad judging, lay and pray and eye pokes.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

You keep thinking you’re getting some kind of one up on me. I’m afraid you have delusions of grandeur my friend. You are simply incapable of grasping that you’re wrong.

Your false sense of superiority is both unfounded by your gameplay and your arguments.

There’s literally no reason to respond to you because you think the same about me. But, by all means, keep playing. God knows everyone else on this board thinks they’ve “defeated” me. Hahahaha


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Combo Spam

You keep thinking you’re getting some kind of one up on me. I’m afraid you have delusions of grandeur my friend. You are simply incapable of grasping that you’re wrong.

Your false sense of superiority is both unfounded by your gameplay and your arguments.

There’s literally no reason to respond to you because you think the same about me. But, by all means, keep playing. God knows everyone else on this board thinks they’ve “defeated” me. Hahahaha


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I hope your day is as nice as you are!

[ryangil23]

Re: Combo Spam

What are you supposed to do against Bisping players throwing 140 strikes a round and seem to know what they're doing to a decent level? Almost exclusively throwing hooks and uppercuts as well. He pretty much never burns out if you let his stamina recover after throwing a combo.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Combo Spam

You two in a nutshell. Just incapable of reading. Since we are doing the cringy food metaphors, you're the guy who's only eaten McDonald's burgers (UFC) and thinks they're comparable to a steakhouse (Traditional fighting games with actual depth and nuance). Embrace being fast food. UFC/Fight Night and traditional sports games are about as similar as Call of Duty and Unreal Tournament. Technically they're under the same genre but they function completely differently.



Guess you ran outta arguments again mate. It's OK you tried.



Yup. While obviously avoiding the negative aspects, such as bad judging, lay and pray and eye pokes.

Not avoiding negative aspects its cause they would be impossible to add without breaking the game, simliar to to diving in fifa.

[WarMMA]

Re: Combo Spam

What are you supposed to do against Bisping players throwing 140 strikes a round and seem to know what they're doing to a decent level? Almost exclusively throwing hooks and uppercuts as well. He pretty much never burns out if you let his stamina recover after throwing a combo.

Well Bisping is a high stamina fighter and he also has perks to help that. The best you can do is make sure you pace yourself against him and make sure you don't burn out, cuz he gets even more stamina in the 3rd cuz of his perks.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Combo Spam

Alright, gentlemen. Here is a video disproving all of the claims about stamina not being drained and combos being too effective to counter.

Aside from one misread on an overhand where I get rocked, this is exactly how you want to fight these guys. Hug block on their combos, back lean and back lunge, and throw either safe combos starting with jabs/straights or throw planted single shot hooks/uppercuts while on the retreat. At one point in the video I do a back lean and a back lunge to avoid two strikes back-to-back. I also don't get very greedy. I rock him at one point and he comes back with a counter so I immediately cancel my offense and hold on the block.

This guy threw 189 strikes and only landed 28. He waited until his temporary stamina was almost full most of the time. Look at his stamina. LOOK AT IT. It's almost halfway drained by the end of the first round. He wasn't even whiffing lean counters or whiffing overall entirely that often. Most of those strikes count as missed on the scoreboard because I blocked them. This guy is using Rumble Johnson who has the second highest power in the game. I thought combos were too powerful and don't drain enough stamina?

Now this guy isn't like the guys who stick to you like glue with high block up, but those guys don't throw a lot of strikes. That makes it a different problem entirely.

Enjoy: https://streamable.com/jo093

P.S. There is a block breaker that doesn't end with an overhand or head kick and doesn't start with 1212. Have fun with it.