Why don't you like grappling in this game?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

Didnt we have the holding mechanic in UFC 1 as well?

I really like Martial’s point about long term vs short term stamina

It should match the stand up. Let people use up as much short term stam as they want until it’s in like the bottom 10% but “spamming” or being inefficient opens you up for subs and greater long term drain. I think it’s something that would help with the pace of the grappling.

And the holding is a good point. I’d rather have flicks reserved for reversals and sweeps. Pretty much give us the same system that exists in bottom mount. Allow us to hold someone at the cost of stamina.

Edit: one thing tho

Feints do exist in real life and happen all the time. It’s just very subtle. A slight shift in weight, or a quick grab somewhere. Kinda how striking feints can be a subtle hip/shoulder twitch or step.

[Nekrotik]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

How to NAIL grappling in EA UFC:

1. Launch UFC Undisputed 3.
2. Study everything they did, except for the submission mini game. I mean every single aspect, leaving not one tiny detail out. Striking, health events, blocking, head movement, holding, reversals, and positions, both clinch/cage and ground. Do all of it EXACTLY the same.
3. ???
4. Profit!

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

Keeping this alive for now.

Any other ideas?

[ungorborongo]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

we need submissions and sweeps from open guard

period

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

I want more minor positions for every position. More options to work with. Things are too predictable at the moment. It feels like either left, right or posture up.

Having more to do within each position would breathe a lot of life into it.

Ideas:
Holding a glove to punch with other hand
Holding a glove before throwing up a sub to remove a gate from the minigame(?)
Catching a strike into a sub (UD3 style)
Hand over mouth to slow stamina regen or burn off perm stamina(?)
Neck pressure in side control to slow stamina regen or maybe weaken neck for RNC later
Knee on belly on side control for more damaging GNP
Pulling a guys neck (can opener) in full guard GSP style
Throwing a body triangle up to make it harder for opponent to get up
Scooting hips towards cage to wall walk
Moving opponent around on ground
Holding head and punching with other hand
Taunting

I'd love to see you and try and map these things on a controller and make it work.

Anyway, I think the main issue with the current grappling is how bipolar it is; if there is a mismatch the fight usually ends inside a round whereas between two equally skilled players the ground game is a casual rolling session until they have had enough and go back to striking. If you by some miracle end up watching ESFL most fights there end up being kickboxing matches.

I think one of the big issues is that the ground and pound damage is too reliant on barrages. You can't finish a dude unless you land half a dozen unanswered punches. While I think people are looking back at UD 3 with rose-tinted glasses, at least the ground and pound in that game was satisfying. I think a big part was how a single strike could a rock or even knock out a guy. Making individual strikes more threatening would add a lot more urgency to the ground game. Undisputed 3's system of manually posturing up would do wonders.

There has also been some meta-talk about what grappling is like in real life. I think most of it is not achievable in a video game. I have grappled a bit and I would say the key characteristic of grappling is reading your opponent and setting your own attacks up accordingly.This clip of Mighty Mouse talking how he planned against Ray Borg's scrambles is a great example of what makes grappling fascinating. I don't have a perfect solution ready but in my opinion the grappling should emphasize reading your opponent rather than animations.

The ground game itself could be more dynamic too. EA MMA's ground parry system was not exactly realistic but it implemented the concept of grappling quite well and it made bottom guard more threatening than in any other MMA game in my opinion. I dislike how in most MMA games bottom just feels like such a bitch role.

Also, one irrational dislike I have with UFC 2-3 grappling are the pitter patter unpostured strikes. While they don't do a whole lot of damage it just feels really bad to eat bunch of strikes with no way to interact with it. The players have been conditioned into avoiding getting hit so that is very jarring.

I'm sure the UD games had meters for completed transitions too but they didn't show them. I think hiding the progress bar would make it feel less gamey and artificial.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

I think minor traditions can be tied to RB or maybe clicking R1 + L1 and hitting the direction you want

[NEWS]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

How to NAIL grappling in EA UFC:

1. Launch UFC Undisputed 3.
2. Study everything they did, except for the submission mini game. I mean every single aspect, leaving not one tiny detail out. Striking, health events, blocking, head movement, holding, reversals, and positions, both clinch/cage and ground. Do all of it EXACTLY the same.
3. ???
4. Profit!

This.
Or, at least, copy the denying transitions mechanic where you only need to hold the stick, like Martialmind suggested.


UD3 grappling mechanics (and ground and pound) were amazing so there's nothing shameful in replicating them, at least some part of it.

[tissues250]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

I think, we need the body scrambling physics like madden. It feels like real time and very freely, not just animations. body scrambling, takedown struggling, clinch pushing and locomotion etc... Madden have really awesome physics in that part. It seem to be cut out for the mma fighting, imo.

[burningxspirit]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

I still love the grappling, but my beef with this game is that strikers have been given all kinda of ways to avoid grappling completely and priority is given to escapes and grapplers have been given nothing.I mean you can even escape the clinch in mid transition, but we can't block the escape even if we see it coming becuase we already started our transition. And it's crap that once you escape you automatically separate. Once you escape the clinch I shoild be able to stay in your face and continue forward pressure, punish with strikes or attempt to initiate grappling in another way

Meanwhile grapplers are only able to initiate grappling in extremely predictable ways that are way easy to deny, and your timing to deny doesn't even have to be amazing to do so. So mediocre grapplers are able to flourish in this game without actually improving there grappling ability. It's sickening. Give grapplers a chance to be relentless and give us a chance to be unpredictable as strikers are.

[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

I still love the grappling, but my beef with this game is that strikers have been given all kinda of ways to avoid grappling completely and priority is given to escapes and grapplers have been given nothing.I mean you can even escape the clinch in mid transition, but we can't block the escape even if we see it coming becuase we already started our transition. And it's crap that once you escape you automatically separate. Once you escape the clinch I shoild be able to stay in your face and continue forward pressure, punish with strikes or attempt to initiate grappling in another way

Meanwhile grapplers are only able to initiate grappling in extremely predictable ways that are way easy to deny, and your timing to deny doesn't even have to be amazing to do so. So mediocre grapplers are able to flourish in this game without actually improving there grappling ability. It's sickening. Give grapplers a chance to be relentless and give us a chance to be unpredictable as strikers are.

Yeah, i only use grappling to win rounds, generally off caught kicks. But i dont need to use a grappler to do so. Clinch break is very fast for example, or you can knee then brean. Or go for thai then break. And lets not get started on how takedowns are

[smokeface]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

We don't need to reinvent the wheel people. Please just copy UD3's grappling and make some tweaks.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Operation Sports mobile app

[KoryDub]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

We don't need to reinvent the wheel people. Please just copy UD3's grappling and make some tweaks.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Operation Sports mobile app

EA has their own brand of grappling - no need to adhere to a standard set by an entirely different development team.

The striking in EA UFC has evolved and I expect grappling will do the same. There seems to have been a trade-off as to what got the most attention during this dev cycle and striking was picked as the priority.

Grappling will evolve much the same - especially if the same people are involved - but patience is required by us.

[burningxspirit]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

Yeah, i only use grappling to win rounds, generally off caught kicks. But i dont need to use a grappler to do so. Clinch break is very fast for example, or you can knee then brean. Or go for thai then break. And lets not get started on how takedowns are

The escapes are so damn fast, so now as soon as I get kneed I immediately go to block the escape.. Generally it's one or two knees then the escape.

[mr420_qq]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

I just wish there was an option to shoot/bullrush while auto getups happen after a KD, and with perfect timing the td denial would be minimal. I think there could be some cool animations. The Brock rush vs Heath herring etc.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Operation Sports mobile app

[neyney00]

Re: Why don't you like grappling in this game?

For the love of grappling please just let us be able to get the fight to the ground easier. I feel stand up is in a great place now. Hopeful for the next patch.