Strikes and Combos UNBALANCES and ISSUES + How to tune it

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  • SUGATA
    MVP
    • Apr 2016
    • 1375

    #1

    Strikes and Combos UNBALANCES and ISSUES + How to tune it

    If you think that any CONCRETE Strike OR Combo is unbalanced and needs some tuning or has any issues - post your suggestions here with arguments and how to fix idea.

    Current Strikes FRAME AND DAMAGE DATA:
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Name="List Table 4 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:8.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:107%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:RelyOnVML/> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> FRAME DATA CHANGES [17 August 2018]:
    - added an Execution frame (added min 2 frames) penalty to the Longer fighter (to simulate the fact that their longer limbs take more time to reach their target, i.e. slower)
    - <s>reduce Stopping power of Jab from 0.7 to 0.5.</s> (Example: if an opponent’s Uppercut takes 24 frames to contact, so I have to intercept it 4 frames earlier than before with my Jab in order to stop it. 0.2 is bigger for longer strikes like a Head kick, which takes about 30 frames so 6 frames earlier than before.).
    In later patch: reduce Stopping power of Jab from 0.5 to 0.3 (b/c Jab was too good at stopping people, while also giving access to great combos and being almost immune to slip counters. The intention is to keep it good for offense, for opening people up; but not so good for intercepting people, which should be the niche of the straight. Now there should be more variaty in how people start their combo, instead of having them starting with a Jab almost every time).
    - reduced the Block recovery frames on landed Roundhouse Leg kicks to make it so you can not longer land 3 unblockable strikes after a landed Leg kick
    - 4 frame speed up to 1<sup>st</sup> FWD Moving Hook to the Head to offer a viable counter to the Sway Straight
    - slow down Body Jab by 4 frames, slow down Body Straight by 2 frames
    - 4 frame speed up of the Body Roundhouse kicks
    - 2 frame speed up of the Switch kick to the Body
    - increase Stopping power of the Push Off.
    ________________________________________________
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    1) SIDE LEG KICK and OBLIQUE LEG KICK:

    + more advanced versions of Leg kick
    + costs much less Stamina than standard Leg kick
    + much cheaper for Feinting
    + (the most broken part!) IF blocked (L2+R2 holding) the opponent does NOT perform a Check but an Evade animation, so:
    1. you will not get Stamina penalty for whiffed leg kick
    2. you will not get any Leg damage at all
    3. The opponent will pay large Stamina tax for his evasion movement!

    - (the only one con) increased Vulnerabily

    > How to fix:
    1. make Stamina tax the same as with standard leg kick - attacker must loose MORE Stamina than successfully evading leg kick defender (when against standard leg kick the defender perform more energy consuming Leg kick Check he will not lose stamina at all, only attacker looses! Where is the logic?!)



    2) FWD MOVING Jab/Straight (head or body) FEINTS issues VS FWD Lunge

    Source:
    https://forums.operationsports.com/f...ody-cross.html


    Originally posted by RomeroXVII
    The profit is closing the distance much faster due to said 'animation'.

    Body straight has evasive properties (against the jabs and straights), whereas the forward lunge is telegraphed much easier and you run the risk of getting front kicked, and the inconsistency of the animation at one time being at a normal pace vs another pace, messes up the counter window (where you say they are vulnerable) and by you trying to preemptively counter by seeing them 'animation speed up) to you (say by using the Uppercut), you lose long term stam, which is worse than short term, and on top of that whiffed strike, they generally can land a free body hook or even another straight before the body hook, WHILE your stamina is recovering from the whiffed strike, so it does more damage + affects your stamina long term. There is more reward than risk from doing this, and it's generally the safest thing to do in this day an age.

    This is why I say SUGATA, look, knowing all of data frames and all of that is fun, I myself take a look at the frame data that GPD posted, but to actually see how certain things and playstyles work effectively, is in a Competitive setting i.e. Ranked Championships.

    If possible, I would like for you to fight EdParker02, and see how effective the style is + I would like for you to 'expose' where he is vulnerable with said 'useless' move

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

    Tested now.

    You are right partially.

    Results:

    The best tool is FWD Moving Body Jab FEINT - it has >= Range and less ST Stamina cost than other variants of Feints (FWD Moving Jab/Straight/body Straight).

    Lets compare FWD Moving Body Jab feint VS (not blocking) FWD Lunge
    (Blocking Lunge is worse b/c shorter range and 8frames delay penalty before launching strike from it):

    + bit longer range

    + twice less ST Stamina cost (paradox! need fixing!)

    = the same follow up strike startup (no delay before it starts) but ONLY IF follow up strike IS a part of Hard Combo (example, 1-2)

    = almost has no evasive properties b/c i am sure body punch has it on 2nd half of its startup (not cancellable).

    - can not to Blocking during it

    - has increased Vulnerability, more risky

    P.S. FWD Lunge range is scaling depends on the distance to the opponent (closer to the opponent = has more range) - btw this is WRONG too! b/c is unrealistic and makes difficult for zoning by Lunges.

    RESUME: i agree, that it needs to be fixed (by buffering and fixing FWD Lunge and some tuning FWD Jab/straight feints too).
    Last edited by SUGATA; 02-20-2019, 04:42 PM.
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  • SUGATA
    MVP
    • Apr 2016
    • 1375

    #2
    Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

    Strange that so few reactions on these 2 leg kicks unbalance....
    Btw this is not only my complain but also and primarily top russian players from world Top 10
    Last edited by SUGATA; 08-18-2018, 05:43 AM.
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    • Solid_Altair
      EA Game Changer
      • Apr 2016
      • 2043

      #3
      Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

      Yeah. The stamina cost on "blocking" these kicks has been noticed as a problem quite a while ago.

      Comment

      • SUGATA
        MVP
        • Apr 2016
        • 1375

        #4
        Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

        Originally posted by Solid_Altair
        Yeah. The stamina cost on "blocking" these kicks has been noticed as a problem quite a while ago.
        noticed by Devs?
        i hope they know about this issue and will fix it with patch
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        • Solid_Altair
          EA Game Changer
          • Apr 2016
          • 2043

          #5
          Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

          Yeah. We totally spammed them about it.

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          • SUGATA
            MVP
            • Apr 2016
            • 1375

            #6
            Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

            GPD answered on twitter about issue of Side and Oblique leg kicks
            That stamina tax for defending against them via evasion animation will be removed.,,
            BUT
            this is not enough!
            B/c attacker looses several times less stamina on them than on standard leg kick.
            Standard leg kick punish - by Check.
            WHAT is the punishment after blocking these 2 leg kicks?...
            > you need make Check for them too! Or large Frame advantage after evading them for follow up counter possibility!
            Many top players are abusing this issue!
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            • Solid_Altair
              EA Game Changer
              • Apr 2016
              • 2043

              #7
              Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

              I think they spend less stamina because they deal less damage.

              They can't be checked irl.

              They already concede a big frame advantage.

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              • SUGATA
                MVP
                • Apr 2016
                • 1375

                #8
                Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

                Originally posted by Solid_Altair
                They already concede a big frame advantage.
                honestly it does not look like this
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                • Solid_Altair
                  EA Game Changer
                  • Apr 2016
                  • 2043

                  #9
                  Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

                  Yeah. It doesn't. But check it out. You can quickly strike from that back step, like you don't really need to comlete its full animation. You can actually land a head kick guaranteed, if you're in kicking range. Just gotta be fast with the input. Up close I suggest a spinning backfist, or a rear upper.

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                  • RomeroXVII
                    MVP
                    • May 2018
                    • 1663

                    #10
                    Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

                    Originally posted by Solid_Altair

                    They can't be checked irl.
                    Um.

                    https://forums.operationsports.com/f...que-kicks.html
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                    • Solid_Altair
                      EA Game Changer
                      • Apr 2016
                      • 2043

                      #11
                      Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

                      Was that a check? Do you think Jones leg was hurt by that?

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                      • RomeroXVII
                        MVP
                        • May 2018
                        • 1663

                        #12
                        Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

                        Originally posted by Solid_Altair
                        Was that a check? Do you think Jones leg was hurt by that?
                        Definitely not to the same severity, but he definitely threw a little less after. At least it mitigates the damage.

                        Better than getting an absurd amount of stamina drained for defending it :c
                        Last edited by RomeroXVII; 08-21-2018, 11:10 AM.
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                        • Solid_Altair
                          EA Game Changer
                          • Apr 2016
                          • 2043

                          #13
                          Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

                          Originally posted by RomeroXVII
                          Definitely not to the same severity, but he definitely threw a little less after. At least it mitigates the damage.

                          Better than getting an absurd amount of stamina drained for defending it :c
                          I agree that the stamina cost shouldn't exist.

                          My point is that the kick can't be checked in a way that will hurt the kicker's leg. There are already compensations to this, in the game. The kick is more vulnerable and unsafe than the roundhouse.

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                          • Counter Punch
                            Pro
                            • Apr 2018
                            • 949

                            #14
                            Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

                            Removed stamina tax of auto lunges that trigger when blocking a straight kick to the leg. #patchspoilers #EAUFC3
                            ...precision beats power and timing beats speed... and realism beats meta.

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                            • RomeroXVII
                              MVP
                              • May 2018
                              • 1663

                              #15
                              Re: Strikes UNBALANCES and issues + How to tune it

                              Originally posted by Solid_Altair
                              I agree that the stamina cost shouldn't exist.

                              My point is that the kick can't be checked in a way that will hurt the kicker's leg. There are already compensations to this, in the game. The kick is more vulnerable and unsafe than the roundhouse.
                              Originally posted by Counter Punch
                              Removed stamina tax of auto lunges that trigger when blocking a straight kick to the leg. #patchspoilers #EAUFC3

                              Woo! All praise Geoff.
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