Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve it

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Yeah, maybe I'm out of my depth on this one, but it just seemed to vibrate every time the opponents punch frame started. just like the animation. Not really sure you'd get any advantage from that, you could just use your eyes.

Watch Ricohet90/SuperSandSoldier fight, he has it down pat.

[SUGATA]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Haptic feedback makes kicks totally worthless.

Do you know that Kicks are not telegraphing by HF (vibration is for both motors), theoretically you can to distinguish it from one motor vibration , but practically this is nearly impossible during the fight.

The more i read counters here - the more i understand than that people didn't even test the work of HF.

Even now, HF gives very subtle tip for incoming strike level.

I dont say that it is fine, i said that HF can be evolved and tuned to bring more realism and depth to the game and authenticity.

Second. Lets talk honestly guys... Have you seen the difference between 30fps on small tv with latency VS 60fps on PS4Pro on large tv with low latency? THIS IS a "cheating" b/c you see/read at least 2 times better and faster the incoming strike animation!
Those who are using standard PS4 they ARE your "DISABLED PEOPLE WHO CAN BARELY SEE", no jokes! They really NEED some help to solve their twice worse vision... HF is a tool that can solve this a little, NOT FULLY (b/c it is subtle feeling) but partially!

You are noble,... You are not cheaters,... Than, right now, TURN OFF your "Performance mode" in settings for Ranked! Trust me, this 60fps gave s you much MUCH MORE advantage than your claimed HF!

> 60fps for all or for nobody, HF for all or for nobody!

Only "DISABLED PEOPLE WHO CAN BARELY SEE" can use HF for determining incoming strike level?! BUT HOW they will play / will see all other actions (like transitions, positions, etc) which are much more difficult to recognize - this is like giving one crutch instead of two! HF does NOTHING in helping visually impaired people! This is a bs joke!

________________________________

I am tired to repeat that what was wrote in 1st OP:

- even now HF does NOT give a 100% direct tip about the incoming strike level. Its gives some subtle feeling

- HF is available to ALL regardless of their TV or their PS4 model. And HF is practically useless for visually impaired people.

- HF can be EVOLVED further to become a "SENSE/Reading opponent's micro movements telegraphing actions" - to be more subtle but more differentiate between different fighters (based on their skill).

- i am pretty sure that the basic Vibration was firstly implemented for impaired people and then evolved into entertainment feature, the same here - HF can be a sense feature.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Used it briefly when I had first heard of it but turned it off soon after as I felt it was a learning curve I didn't really need.

Wouldn't call it cheating if it can be beaten and is an in-game function.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

Because it can be beaten, it isn’t cheating?

So because Conor lost, him kneeing Khabib in the head and grabbing shorts wasn’t cheating?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[GrimLeiper]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Because it can be beaten, it isn’t cheating?

So because Conor lost, him kneeing Khabib in the head and grabbing shorts wasn’t cheating?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

No...You're only reading one part of the post and replying. It's also an in-game feature. You can load up your game right now and turn it on if you wish (you aren't breaking any rules/laws). Anyone can.

It sounds like in order to beat it, I'm going to have to understand it. Think I might give it a go myself.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

No...You're only reading one part of the post and replying. It's also an in-game feature. You can load up your game right now and turn it on if you wish (you aren't breaking any rules/laws). Anyone can.

It sounds like in order to beat it, I'm going to have to understand it. Think I might give it a go myself.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

I'll save you the trouble. Body kicks are nearly worthless against it, since it vibrates for any low shot. So you can get your kicks checked/kick caught much easier. Feints are the only thing that will disrupt the haptic feedback process. I would have to feint almost 100-150 times in one round and it kills my stamina doing so, just to try and mess up the rhythm of the dude that uses Haptic Feedback.

Body hooks are your best chance against it, but singular rather than three in a row unless you KNOW you have them hit stunned.


Haptic Feedback + Use of the short lunges = OP

That's what Ricohet90 does, by knowing what strikes are coming he can simply move the left stick like a telepathic ninja and KILL your stamina. Something that SUGATA for some reason thinks is realistic.


Short Lunges paired with Haptic Feedback is DISGUSTINGLY damaging, and you can find yourself with almost 45-60% stamina heading into round 2 if you don't realize in time.


It's an in game feature, MEANT FOR THOSE THAT ARE DISABLED. If you're not handicapped, why park in the handicapped spot? Same thing here. It's not meant for us to use as an advantage, the concept of it was pretty noble to help the visually impaired enjoy this good game, but of course we just have to have some sweaty tryhards exploit whatever they can to win.

[SUGATA]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

I'll save you the trouble. Body kicks are nearly worthless against it, since it vibrates for any low shot. So you can get your kicks checked/kick caught much easier. Feints are the only thing that will disrupt the haptic feedback process. I would have to feint almost 100-150 times in one round and it kills my stamina doing so, just to try and mess up the rhythm of the dude that uses Haptic Feedback.

Body hooks are your best chance against it, but singular rather than three in a row unless you KNOW you have them hit stunned.


Haptic Feedback + Use of the short lunges = OP

That's what Ricohet90 does, by knowing what strikes are coming he can simply move the left stick like a telepathic ninja and KILL your stamina. Something that SUGATA for some reason thinks is realistic.


Short Lunges paired with Haptic Feedback is DISGUSTINGLY damaging, and you can find yourself with almost 45-60% stamina heading into round 2 if you don't realize in time.


It's an in game feature, MEANT FOR THOSE THAT ARE DISABLED. If you're not handicapped, why park in the handicapped spot? Same thing here. It's not meant for us to use as an advantage, the concept of it was pretty noble to help the visually impaired enjoy this good game, but of course we just have to have some sweaty tryhards exploit whatever they can to win.

1. Feint's stamina cost as for the full move is an issue - it must to be fixed asap, feint must costs the same for all low stamina cost.

2. Do you know that weaker strike = weaker (harder to read) HF, and Kicks has total vibration not separate. you can use it against HF abuser by mixing up.

3. I dont understood how Minor lunges are effective with HF.
Minor lunges are effective ONLY against linear attacks. BWD minor lunge is too short, though.
BUT
as i said to GPD before, side minor Lunge is broken (but he did not listen)- you can SPAM (by rapidly tapping ) it stupidly and evade many linear fast attacks... but this is the minor side lunge issue, NOT HF.

4. You are noble, i believe you, no sarcasm. Turn off 60fps in option.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

From the little I know of it (I admit I don't know much), it doesn't seem legit to be used by players without visual disabilities. IMHO it shouldn't be in ranked.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

1. Feint's stamina cost as for the full move is an issue - it must to be fixed asap, feint must costs the same for all low stamina cost.

2. Do you know that weaker strike = weaker (harder to read) HF, and Kicks has total vibration not separate. you can use it against HF abuser by mixing up.

3. I dont understood how Minor lunges are effective with HF.
Minor lunges are effective ONLY against linear attacks. BWD minor lunge is too short, though.
BUT
as i said to GPD before, side minor Lunge is broken (but he did not listen)- you can SPAM (by rapidly tapping ) it stupidly and evade many linear fast attacks... but this is the minor side lunge issue, NOT HF.

4. You are noble, i believe you, no sarcasm. Turn off 60fps in option.

I agree with #1.

But think about it: The Minor Lunge is extremely effective with Haptic Feedback, especially against straight strikes like the side kicks , jabs and straights. If you watch the video I posted, you can notice the Minor Lunge "Spam" as you called it, being used very well because of the haptic feedback. I personally know how to use the minor lunges to step out of range and even evade strikes, but the rate that SuperSandSoldier/Ricohet90 was doing it, was like fighting the Agent from the Matrix.

The backward minor lunge is contextual and works on the ranges, if you're in hook range it'll take you out into step kick range for example.

I don't have 60fps nor do I even know what it has to do with anything.

IMHO, if it's meant for disabled people, KEEP IT THAT WAY. Have some way where you need a form of identification to turn on Haptic Feedback or something. Or, remove it from ranked.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

[GrimLeiper]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Here's the thing, Sugatas comments regarding the pro are the exact same. You guys get better performance with your pro and monitor. Unless people turn this off and switch back to their TVs, I don't see why anyone playing this game with haptic feedback should listen to anyone on this board about it being cheating.

I get messages about how grappling is cheating. Gamers label anything they don't like cheating. You can say it's not honourable, but since when was playing a game honourable?

This argument is similar to the argument for/against mouse and keyboard on FPS. The only difference is people need third party hardware for mouse + keyboard to work (on the PS4).

I can accept people describing that as cheating, although again, I don't feel like its any of my business what people prefer to use. But Haptic Feedback has been put into this game to be used.

Headphones offer a performance advantage against people relying on sound from their TVs. Are headphones cheating? Of course not.


Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

I don't even see how this is an issue ...to paraphase Jules winefield in pulp fiction - haptic feed back and 60 frames per second aren't in the same league , it ain't even in the same sport .

How can you compare knowing pre-emptively what strikes are coming to knowing how to even deny transitions cause you can see it better .

C'mon that's ridiculous . Like how are you even enjoying the game that way . You don't want to loose a single fight ?

I don't play ranked so it don't affect me but c'mon that's just plain cheating .

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[GrimLeiper]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Just watched your video Romero but I'm not seeing the issue so perhaps I'm not fully understanding it.

You landed every single body kick you threw - as far as I can recall. In fact, the only body shots I'm aware of him blocking were two body hooks in round 2 or 3.

Quite a contrast from "body kicks are nearly worthless".

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[GrimLeiper]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

I don't even see how this is an issue ...to paraphase Jules winefield in pulp fiction - haptic feed back and 60 frames per second aren't in the same league , it ain't even in the same sport .

How can you compare knowing pre-emptively what strikes are coming to knowing how to even deny transitions cause you can see it better .

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

Let's stop pretending the Pro's got no advantage please. There's been countless threads on this forum of people making the switch to the Pro or a monitor instead of a TV and it's clear there's an improvement for them.

Someone mentioned in this thread it's not pre-emptively vibrating. This would be impossible (the system would need to know which strike someone is throwing, before they even thrown it) It vibrates in the start up frame. So anyone using Haptic Feedback are still going to be using their eyes.

So yeh, they ain't in the same league but that observation was clearly made whilst you have no understanding of Haptic Feedback.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Here's the thing, Sugatas comments regarding the pro are the exact same. You guys get better performance with your pro and monitor. Unless people turn this off and switch back to their TVs, I don't see why anyone playing this game with haptic feedback should listen to anyone on this board about it being cheating.

I get messages about how grappling is cheating. Gamers label anything they don't like cheating. You can say it's not honourable, but since when was playing a game honourable?

This argument is similar to the argument for/against mouse and keyboard on FPS. The only difference is people need third party hardware for mouse + keyboard to work (on the PS4).

I can accept people describing that as cheating, although again, I don't feel like its any of my business what people prefer to use. But Haptic Feedback has been put into this game to be used.

Headphones offer a performance advantage against people relying on sound from their TVs. Are headphones cheating? Of course not.


Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

Talk about loading the question.

I don't have a Pro. I play on a regular degular PS4. The only reason I got a Monitor for Season 5, was for the game to run a bit smoother. I had enough money to spare, and with the recommendations from all my friends I decided to try it. The only thing that it really alleviated is input lag. That's pretty much it. It's not something psychic that's telling me when my opponent is going to strike, I don't have the Byakugan and I suddenly hit my opponent with the 64 Trigams when they throw one jab, because of a slight reduction in delay.

You can get a cheap ASUS VG245 Monitor ranging from $125-$230. It's not this holy expensive item that is unfathomable to get. I'm a NCAA D3 Collegiate Wrestler who works two jobs before and after every season, and can still make time to play this game from time to time, manage your time better and make an investment. If you don't, that's on you.

I was beating guys who had PS4 Pros and Monitors, from Season 1-4 and I had a TV that ran on 8 ms, but I was not going to chastise them because they made an investment to play games on what they're intended to be played on: Gaming Monitors.

Haptic Feedback is meant for, DISABLED PEOPLE. People who have VISUAL PROBLEMS, and it is meant as an aid.

Again, I repeat, since you apparently skipped over the issue with it: IT IS MEANT FOR THE DISABLED.

If a place is full of cars and no parking spots but there is a handicapped spot, are you going to take it because nobody's watching? No, because you know that it is not meant for YOU.

I HATE saying this, but with most players who don't take the time to ask for tips/lab things/take the time to learn what the devs have put in, they look for any excuse as to why they lose and blame everybody, rather than just admitting that they're struggling and they need help.

I can fight against Haptic Feedback users because I know how to deal with it.

Everybody was complaining about bobblehead season, twirly bird season, jab uppercut hook when it was broken and it would track as a straight strike (I DEFINITELY complained about that), grappling nerfs, etc etc. The game has come along way since it's release. Outside fighting is possible. Grappling is possible. Pressure has always been possible. Counters are there.

MMA Fighters are not vibrating before every strike is thrown so they can become Ultra Instinct Goku and Dodge/Block/Catch almost everything. Haptic Feedback is for the VISUALLY IMPAIRED. If you're not VISUALLY IMPAIRED, you have absolutely no business using it. End of discussion.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

Just watched your video Romero but I'm not seeing the issue so perhaps I'm not fully understanding it.

You landed every single body kick you threw - as far as I can recall. In fact, the only body shots I'm aware of him blocking were two body hooks in round 2 or 3.

Quite a contrast from "body kicks are nearly worthless".

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

I have fought him MULTIPLE times. I am SUPER familiar with how he plays. I know his patterns, and I know his tendencies. You play him, and see how you do. His PSN is Ricohet90, play him in Welterweight when he has Nick Diaz or anybody really. Enjoy it.

My earlier losses to him, on his main account was because I had no understanding of how he was able to catch everything, counter almost everything and Dodge everything. My stamina was decimated the first few times I fought him.

One thing you noticed I did, was constantly feinting. He likes to side lunge the straight strikes so I landed the body kicks because I was expecting him to side lunge a straight strike that I feinted, and that was how I made it work.


The question is, is that how you want every game to be played?

[SUGATA]

Re: Why HAPTIC FEEDBACK is NOT a cheat, is realistic, needed for all + How to evolve

I agree with #1.

But think about it: The Minor Lunge is extremely effective with Haptic Feedback, especially against straight strikes like the side kicks , jabs and straights. If you watch the video I posted, you can notice the Minor Lunge "Spam" as you called it, being used very well because of the haptic feedback. I personally know how to use the minor lunges to step out of range and even evade strikes, but the rate that SuperSandSoldier/Ricohet90 was doing it, was like fighting the Agent from the Matrix.

The backward minor lunge is contextual and works on the ranges, if you're in hook range it'll take you out into step kick range for example.

I don't have 60fps nor do I even know what it has to do with anything.

IMHO, if it's meant for disabled people, KEEP IT THAT WAY. Have some way where you need a form of identification to turn on Haptic Feedback or something. Or, remove it from ranked.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

I agree about SIDE minor lunge issue - BUT this issue is regardless of HF, it is on ITS OWN.
The issue - go to practice , record FAST LINEAR strike , jab for ex in ANY speed repeating - vs it just TAP LS up or down as fast as possible W CLOSED EYES = no one strike will hit you!!!
I said about dashes issues - Devs don’t want to listen!
This is all about Lunge’s issue, NOT about HF.



You are not using 60fps, may be b/c you have standard PS4, my respect, BUT many many are playing on PS4Pro and have 60fps and have much more advantage over you trust me, so you need more skill to overplay them. 60fps must to be for all, this more value factor than HF.