Damage and Frame Data

**rabbitfistssaipailo** · 10-16-2018, 03:46 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

I am not ashamed to say I have no idea of what I am looking at . Waiting for solid Altair and Sugata to start going back and forth .

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**FlaccoNumba5** · 10-16-2018, 05:04 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

See this where we need sugata

**Zeta Reticulan1** · 10-16-2018, 05:08 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC

https://www.ea.com/games/ufc/ufc-3/n...age-frame-data

Great stuff here. I'm looking at the Light Heavy/Heavy frame data now.
I want to start spamming some spinning elbows more now that I see it has a very good base damage (30) to peak vulnerability (.05) ratio

**Solid_Altair** · 10-16-2018, 05:24 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

I might make videos, but they won't be ready very soon. If yall have specific questions, I'm here.

**RomeroXVII** · 10-16-2018, 06:29 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

Originally posted by Zeta Reticulan1

Great stuff here. I'm looking at the Light Heavy/Heavy frame data now.
I want to start spamming some spinning elbows more now that I see it has a very good base damage (30) to peak vulnerability (.05) ratio

Ducking the spin and following up with a body hook/uppercut helps counter that spam like.

This is very good data. As expected the front kick is every effective

**SUGATA** · 10-16-2018, 07:10 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC

https://www.ea.com/games/ufc/ufc-3/n...age-frame-data

It seems i am sleeping and this is just a porno dream...
So, until i wake up, i have a questions:

1) How close this Frame data (FD) is to its final state?

2) As i see , these moves are only a Stand up strikes.
What about posting FD and damage for Clinch and Ground strikes?

3) Is it possible to tweak this FD quickly and easily via Live tuner . not by costly patch? FD is a long term balancing thing, so it still will require a time to test, practice and report the unbalances or issues.

It is late in Moscow, so i hope GPD will not leave this thread soon when some questions will appears...

**GameplayDevUFC** · 10-16-2018, 07:13 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

Originally posted by SUGATA

It seems i am sleeping and this is just a porno dream...
So, until i wake up, i have a questions:

1) How close this Frame data (FD) is to its final state?

2) As i see , these moves are only a Stand up strikes.
What about posting FD and damage for Clinch and Ground strikes?

3) Is it possible to tweak this FD quickly and easily via Live tuner . not by costly patch? FD is a long term balancing thing, so it still will require a time to test, practice and report the unbalances or issues.

It is late in Moscow, so i hope GPD will not leave this thread soon when some questions will appears...

1. It is final as of the last patch and there are no plans to change it for the next patch.

2. Not practical given how those systems are built.

3. Yes.

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**Solid_Altair** · 10-16-2018, 07:13 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

Originally posted by RomeroXVII

Ducking the spin and following up with a body hook/uppercut helps counter that spam like.

This is very good data. As expected the front kick is every effective

I'm very curious about how the high level players will adapt to this data (if at all).

And more than ever I'm curious about opinions in regards to some strikes being OP or UP.

**RomeroXVII** · 10-16-2018, 07:16 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

Originally posted by Solid_Altair

I'm very curious about how the high level players will adapt to this data (if at all).

And more than ever I'm curious about opinions in regards to some strikes being OP or UP.

Most of the counters I use myself are pretty much backed up by all of this data, and now knowing about frame recovery, it'd be foolish of the others NOT to try use this info for their strategies.

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**SUGATA** · 10-16-2018, 07:26 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC

1. It is final as of the last patch and there are no plans to change it for the next patch.

2. Not practical given how those systems are built.

3. Yes.

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1. What about Block counters FD?

2. Why do you think that FD of Clinch and Ground strikes is not practical?

What is the differences from stand up for Hit stuns, Block stuns for determining frame advantage for my next strike in Clinch/Ground?

In grappling strikes can interrupt/crush grappling moves , the result of which is depending on some factors that are very unclear for me - so i hope you will help with it and FD can help too, for planning your actions in different scenarios.

This STRIKE CRUSHING/INTERRUPTING Grappling moves infos is very required i think.

_______________________________________

This is just a copy-past of this infos for EA UFC 2 and i am MOT sure how actual it is now:

 2) STRIKE CRUSHING GM:
[While SUB Stamina is < 75% and DOM Stamina is > 30%, from Dominant position (dom MT, dom FM Posture up, etc)] Strike - will interrupt any GM attempt by the opponent with a special Mid Transition Hit Reaction (MTHR).
[When SUB fighter Stamina >75% or DOM fighter Stamina is <30%] SUB fighter begins his GM (w/o risk of DOM strike crushing).
[When SUB fighter Stamina <75% + DOM fighter Stamina is >30%] DOM fighter perform Strikes (for crushing SUB fighter’s GM).
During my Strike I am in GDA - so be aware of your Stamina and always consider re-establishing control [before my Strikes].

IN STAND UP GRAPPLING:
1. Crushing Stand up TAKEDOWN attempt:
[If strike landed on initial phase of TD’s startup] ALL Strikes – will crush TD attempt.
Exception: Jab, Straight, Leg kick – can not interrupt TD by default, but If they land in a way that would naturally cause a Stun (i.e. charged by CM at the end of a Combo), they can still do it.
[Just TD begins] Uppercut, Knee or other fast enough Strikes (but NOT Jab, Straight, Leg kick).
[VS not charged by CM, CW basic Strikes - Jab, Straight, Leg kick] attempt TD.
[VS others Strikes – only when I have enough Striking advantage (his Strike will not hit on my initial wind up TD phase) when I get CW after successful Dodge/Side step, Sway, Parry, FBHR] attempt TD.
2. Crushing Stand up CLINCH attempt:
[If strike landed during any phase of Clinch attempt] ALL Strikes – will crush Clinch initiation attempt.
No exceptions.
[Just Clinch attempt begins] Jab, Straight, Leg kick or other fast enough Strikes.

IN CLINCH:
Dominant MT Knee to head/Body – intercept opponent’s GM if landed during filled TM; may not intercept, depends major on SA (changing intercepting window of filled TM).
In ALL Clinch positions:
- Punches - does not crush at all
- Kicks, Knees - crush when strike is landed (hit) during his TM (denial window).
In ALL Cage Clinch positions:
- the same
- except one: Cage SC - any strike (even Punch) interrupts opponent's GM.
In Clinch and Cage Clinch – use Punches (for dmg), Kicks/Knees (for interrupts and dmg).
In Cage SC – use Punches (for dmg and interrupts).

IN GROUND:
1. FM Postured up – SUB transition to sub HG:
[SUB <75%, DOM >30%, during Denial window] DOM Strike crush SUB GM
In Postured FM: SUB fighter starts his GM only after opponent’s Strike start; DOM fighter start his Strike just after SUB fighter starts his GM.
2. FM Postured up – SUB transition to FM not postured up (break Posture):
[SUB <75%] DOM Strike crush SUB GM
[SUB > 75% and DOM no matter] DOM Strike will NOT crush SUB transition to Posture down (and gives GA as break Posture up).
3. FM Postured up – SUB transition to sub Back Mount:
[SUB <75%, DOM > 30%, during Denial window, Strike the same side of rolling to] DOM Strike crush SUB GM
4. Back Mount (BM) – SUB transition to sub HG:
[SUB <75% or DOM>30%, during Denial window, Strike the same side] DOM Strike crush SUB GM.
5. Back Side (BS) – SUB transition to sub FG:
[SUB <75% or DOM>30%, during Denial window] DOM Hummer Fist ONLY crush SUB GM.

Posture up strike – (any Posture up strike) intercept opponent’s GM if landed during filling TM:
- in dom FM: may not intercept, depends minor on SA (changing intercepting window of filled TM)
- in dom HG: may not intercept, depends on SA (changing intercepting window of filled TM)
In dom FG: may not intercept, depends major on SA (changing intercepting window of filled TM)
In more dominant Posture up position: Strike intercepting is less depending on Stamina differences (SA) between 2 fighters (but for ex in dom FM with large Stamina disadvantage strike will not intercept opponent’s GM).
In more dominant Posture up position – use more/often any Posture up strikes (for intercepting opponent’s GM), but do not drop Stamina too low (0-30%).
+
[In any Clinch/Ground position] perform any Strike > [immediately] perform GB - they both will be performed nearly at the same time, double effect (causes Strike damage (with intercept possibility) and GB executing opponent’s GM).
[Always when the opponent starts his GM, in any Clinch/Ground position] use any Strike with immediately followed GB (for 2 chances to crush/deny his GM!

VS STRIKE CRUSH GM:
Block his Strike > immediately perform GM (his Strike will not crush my GM).

1. In Clinch/Ground striking does NOT exist: Combo multiplier (CM), Counter window, Physics driven damage (i.e. momentum, when opponent is moving toward my strike).
(Example: Standing (Stand up) hook, and hook in Single Collar land about the same amount of damage. But Standing hook can be buffed by being thrown in a combo (for CM), or as a counter, or by physics damage with the right timing. None of those conditions & damage bonuses exist in the Clinch/Ground).
2. Reasons to switch Left-Right strikes in Clinch/Ground:
- mix ups to avoid Arm traps in Posture up
- target specific side to damage specific arm during opponent’s Blocking (to break Block sooner)
> Switch/mixing up Left-Right Strikes in Clinch/Ground for: avoid Arm trap in Posture up, and to strike the most damaged opponent’s Hand to break his Block sooner.
3. GnP strike speed - is determined by Stamina ONLY, not attributes!

In Posture up use:
1. Hooks > Hammer fists – to weaken his Block quickly
2. Straights – (fastest GnP strike, but weaker) use when Block is weakened to evade Arm traps.
In Posture up do NOT use:
1. Elbows – (slow and weak) do not use in any position.
………….. Lfc_rob_lfc: Straight punches, the hooks and the hammerfists all come out at exactly the same speed if you keep throwing them once the first one has landed. The problem is that the first straight punch takes a shorter time from button press to land than the hook and the hammerfist takes a little longer than the hook. This means that switching between a straight punch, hook, hammerfist etc. just isn't viable. People might as well stick to the same type of strike if they're gonna throw them repeatedly. If they're gonna take their time, they might as well start with the hooks as they do more damage to arms than the straight punches, and then once an arm is damaged they might as well just time straight punches between blocks and arm traps etc. As for the elbows, they're useless other than to change timing to avoid getting arm trapped or are only to be used as the last finishing strike when the guy in sub mount is basically frozen…………………… > GPD answer: There's lots of ways to add depth to ground striking, centered around the different strike types. But we didn't have time to do that, so any difference (aside from relative damage which was just a carry over from UFC 1) any difference between them is incidental and wasn't tuned. I fully expected there to be a single best option that people gravitate towards. There were no real pros/cons designed into it………………………… Yeah, elbows in side control are like pistons if someone isn't trying to transition. I believe they even slowed them down lol. Elbows in mount postured up are the ones that are pretty much useless except as a finishing strike. They are too slow and you can transition in that time. …..…………?
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**xsntckx** · 10-16-2018, 10:41 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC

1. It is final as of the last patch and there are no plans to change it for the next patch.

Do you have plans to release new patches that would include new content such as fighters, movements, videos etc

**rabbitfistssaipailo** · 10-17-2018, 11:41 AM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

Can someone please explain to me what beats the straight uppercut , uppercut combo ...using the frame rate data ...it appears to walk through everything armouring the the person doing the combo

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**SUGATA** · 10-17-2018, 12:46 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

In addition to my above post (questions) to GPD, i have another question:

1) Could you post FD (Denial windows size + duration of grabbing animation/startup) for ALL Clinch attempts?

2) Am i right that EVERY type of Clinch attempt has its own Denial window size?

some devs quotes which forced this questions:
- Slightly slowed down the single collar attempt animation and increased the denial window by 10 frames
- Reduce the denial window of the Cage Over Under clinch attempt by 14 frames
- Clinch attempt denial window is not changed, is 46 frames
so, we have some misunderstandings here.

**Solid_Altair** · 10-17-2018, 02:28 PM

Re: Damage and Frame Data

Originally posted by rabbitfistssaipailo

Can someone please explain to me what beats the straight uppercut , uppercut combo ...using the frame rate data ...it appears to walk through everything armouring the the person doing the combo

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What makes you think that?

Strikes don't have an "armor". Whether they get stopped or not depends on what strike hits them (and when). A few acrobatic strikes can be interrupted a bit more easily. But to my knowledge, there is so strike that has "more armor" than usual.

You can counter that combo with a side slip counter, against any of the 3 strikes. Blocking the full combo also won't deal much damage through the block.

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