Just wrestle

[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: Just wrestle

Hmm. Basically, what it should be like, if you try to input it before the opponent is on the leg, it shouldn't work. Counters only work once the opponent is in, you can't really predeny with a counter, so maybe making it like that should fix it.

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yeah, the only exploit I've found so far is that this style of defending generally leaves guys open to the single leg ankle pick since they train themselves to deny R2 L2 up. SP_The_Ghost is a great example of this, he will pretty much do this with every takedown but if you go for the ankle pick he never defends it.

[Papadoc60]

Re: Just wrestle

TD Counters drain stamina.

And I liked the Undeniable TD he hit off of the lunge. That was great.

There have been times ,say that I've been rocked or had low stamina and the TD Counter could not be used. Or a few times when I whiffed a big strike, but that usually happened with guys with less than 90 TD Defense. Maybe that should a constant thing.

What needs to change, is that bug that concerts double legs into single legs. It ruins the Undeniable TD timing.

I don't see why people think shooting takedowns blindly with no set ups in the middle of the Octagon should warrant a TD. Look how foolish Brunson looked against Adesanya.

TD Counters only work against single legs and double legs. They do not work against any cage TD, or any hip Tosses, trips or leg grabs.

I don't think shooting a blind takedown with no setup should reward you a takedown. As it stands now, setting up a double leg and catching someone when they're moving forward striking usually relinquishes double unders to them if they know what they are doing. That's why I have to ankle pick so much just to get takedowns and it shouldn't be that way.

Yes, they don't work against cage tds or clinch tds but they work against almost all double and single legs attempts which is extremely unbalanced.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Just wrestle

I don't think shooting a blind takedown with no setup should reward you a takedown. As it stands now, setting up a double leg and catching someone when they're moving forward striking usually relinquishes double unders to them if they know what they are doing. That's why I have to ankle pick so much just to get takedowns and it shouldn't be that way.

Yes, they don't work against cage tds or clinch tds but they work against almost all double and single legs attempts which is extremely unbalanced.

I think that TD Defense should affect the effectiveness of the TD Counter windows.

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[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: Just wrestle

I think that TD Defense should affect the effectiveness of the TD Counter windows.

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yeah I would be way more okay with this if it was being pulled off by Aldo or Woodley, not Conor against Mendes.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Just wrestle

yeah I would be way more okay with this if it was being pulled off by Aldo or Woodley, not Conor against Mendes.

I think we all found something we all agree on.

And, make it that the more GA the TD had when the counter was used, the more stamina gets drained from the person using the TD Counter.

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[HereticGabriel]

Re: Just wrestle

They need to also fix the issue of getting to someone’s back from major lunging and shooting a takedown, watching your meter fill and you can be almost inside them but not get the takedown.

I don’t think any of my takedowns besides maybe the last 1 were blind. The 1st was lunging off a combo and shooting which I assume you didn’t expect especially in quick fight since it’s usually just a spam fest. The 2nd and 3rd that you double under countered I believe were the same, Id lunge and shoot. The 4th one I think I just swayed a strike or two and shot, meter filled super fast tho from the GA. I’m typically pretty good at setting them up or having the right timing.

The window for the reversal should at most be the same as the window to deny. If it’s the absolute perfect shot, Max GA, you’re still throwing a strike or two, and there’s no way you can sprawl/push off the takedown attempt, I don’t think you should be able to counter it either.

[Papadoc60]

Re: Just wrestle

I think that TD Defense should affect the effectiveness of the TD Counter windows.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

I agree, it should be influenced by a lot more factors such as grapple advantage/TDD/TD stat/Cage Position/Forward movement etc. The TD counter/reversal window is absurd no matter who you're playing against. GOAT fought me with Thales Leites a few seasons ago and no matter how well I set up the double/single with Yoel Romero of all people I would get thrown into double under or side saddle. It's just ridiculous

[HereticGabriel]

Re: Just wrestle

What needs to change, is that bug that concerts double legs into single legs. It ruins the Undeniable TD timing.

I don't see why people think shooting takedowns blindly with no set ups in the middle of the Octagon should warrant a TD. Look how foolish Brunson looked against Adesanya.

TD Counters only work against single legs and double legs. They do not work against any cage TD, or any hip Tosses, trips or leg grabs.

The double into single is annoying, Ive had that many times. Not sure what causes if, wether it’s random or from the camera angle changing just slightly to somehow make a back push into a forward... but it’s ****.

Shooting blind takedowns shouldn’t work. You should be punished and easily stopped if you shoot like Brunson did, or like Maia did vs Woodley. But setting them up with footwork, strikes and angles like GSP, Cruz etc do should work extremely well. You shouldn’t be almost forced to ankle pick, undeniable tds or luck that they miss the denial if you’re doing it right

[Papadoc60]

Re: Just wrestle

They need to also fix the issue of getting to someone’s back from major lunging and shooting a takedown, watching your meter fill and you can be almost inside them but not get the takedown.

I don’t think any of my takedowns besides maybe the last 1 were blind. The 1st was lunging off a combo and shooting which I assume you didn’t expect especially in quick fight since it’s usually just a spam fest. The 2nd and 3rd that you double under countered I believe were the same, Id lunge and shoot. The 4th one I think I just swayed a strike or two and shot, meter filled super fast tho from the GA. I’m typically pretty good at setting them up or having the right timing.

The window for the reversal should at most be the same as the window to deny. If it’s the absolute perfect shot, Max GA, you’re still throwing a strike or two, and there’s no way you can sprawl/push off the takedown attempt, I don’t think you should be able to counter it either.

This sums it up for me. You should not be able to counter/reverse a takedown that you otherwise would be unable to defend regularly, it does not make sense to me. The difficulty for countering or reversing the takedown should be higher than regularly defending it, and there's a reason the best players choose to reverse/counter the TD instead of trying to sprawl.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Just wrestle

The double into single is annoying, Ive had that many times. Not sure what causes if, wether it’s random or from the camera angle changing just slightly to somehow make a back push into a forward... but it’s ****.

Shooting blind takedowns shouldn’t work. You should be punished and easily stopped if you shoot like Brunson did, or like Maia did vs Woodley. But setting them up with footwork, strikes and angles like GSP, Cruz etc do should work extremely well. You shouldn’t be almost forced to ankle pick, undeniable tds or luck that they miss the denial if you’re doing it right

I prefer doing Undeniable TDs because well..

They're undeniable .

The double to single/single to double is a bug. Ankle picks are just as good since they take them into side control. The range is inconsistent though.

Hopefully something can be implemented like if you successfully lunge a strike you can get a CONSISTENT Undeniable TD off of the lunge.

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[GrimLeiper]

Re: Just wrestle

How will they fix the whole, lunging to someone's back and it bugs out when going for take-down? New animations?

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[WarMMA]

Re: Just wrestle

How will they fix the whole, lunging to someone's back and it bugs out when going for take-down? New animations?

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Yh that's really annoying and really hope something is done about it. If you manage to get directly behind someone to where their back is facing you, a td attempt should result in the tackle to back side and a clinch attempt should put you in back clinch position.

[teezie]

Re: Just wrestle

Is it impossible to fake transitions in SUB Sprawl? It seems like just a small tap of the right stick fully commits you to a move. This is unlike any other position that's in the ground game. I know other people on this forum have complained about the limited options available from this position as well.

[Papadoc60]

Re: Just wrestle

Is it impossible to fake transitions in SUB Sprawl? It seems like just a small tap of the right stick fully commits you to a move. This is unlike any other position that's in the ground game. I know other people on this forum have complained about the limited options available from this position as well.

It's pretty hard to fake from sprawl. I suggest just trying to stand back up into over under in the middle of their strike while you wait to deny their transition.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Just wrestle

It's pretty hard to fake from sprawl. I suggest just trying to stand back up into over under in the middle of their strike while you wait to deny their transition.

*incoming 2 gate guillotine awaits*

Sprawl is nearly a death sentence when it really shouldn't be unless you are DEAD tired. Should be given an option to hold on to a single from sprawl, wrestlers will latch on to a leg and try to run the pipe if the opponent messes up.

A cool contextual transition with Mighty Mouse, is that if somebody tries to go backside and I believe you go the opposite direction or over under, you initiate a fireman's carry and drop them into side control.