Submissions

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Submissions

I think both issues are pretty bad. I had a bit of temporary amnesia and completely forgot how to properly block the head strikes from MT clinch for a while after not playing for a minute, and boy, was I going up against some MT clinch spammers during that time. These guys are doing it right off the bat too, so they must be having success with it. Beyond those MT clinch strikes just being too much, I don't like the fact that it basically makes every single fighter a MT specialist, only so many fighters show should even have that kinda power in clinch.

So beyond the fact people still think it's OP, It really takes away fighter uniqueness just giving everyone practically the same stopping power in MT clinch.

That and sub spamming need fixing.

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I was thinking about this the other day as well.

An elbow from Frankie Edgar in the MT Clinch is not going to be the same as an Elbow from José Aldo. Same with a knee. The health event should be based on the health of the fighter taking the shot, the break should be there upon landing that shot still to keep it balanced. Dudes who have a Muay Thai background and a high clinch grapple stat should have a higher chance of rocking you from the MT Clinch than say a boxer.

[ryangil23]

Re: Submissions

You should get grapple advantage after escaping a sub at least. I'm sure it just goes to neutral right now.

[GrimLeiper]

Re: Submissions

There's a lot wrong with clinch, but striking wise MT clinch strikes simply don't need to be one and done. Whatever adjustments they make to clinch & mt clinch in the future, the power AND speed of clinch strikes need adjusting too. Power in MT knees and elbows should be lessened or more so have there own varied vulnerability and the speed needs to be faster.

I rarely look at ratings but are there even clinch striking ratings?

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Spot on about this.

There's a noticeable difference between ending up on the ground against a Maia and a Lawler.

There's a noticeable difference between standing against Mcgregor and an Ortega.

The only difference when it comes to the clinch, that I can think of, is clinch control. It being harder to transition in the clinch (without being denied) vs a Cormier compared to a Stipe.

But MT clinch Experts... maybe slightly more damage? Which itself isn't particularly noticeable because an elbow from a McGregor in MT clinch, will likely still result in the same outcome - a rock.

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[GrimLeiper]

Re: Submissions

Anyone see Khalil Rountree vs Johnny Walker recently?

What Johnny Walker done with Khalil in the MT clinch was scary (controlling someone like khalil with this clinch, then made easy work of him). I don't believe that is currently possible in this game.

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[teezie]

Re: Submissions

You should get grapple advantage after escaping a sub at least. I'm sure it just goes to neutral right now.

Right, this is what I'm getting at. How do I not at least get a free strike or an enormous amount of grapple advantage after getting out of a submission? That in itself would deter the spam.


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[teezie]

Re: Submissions

It's not really confusing. It's the same buttons as denying a transition, yes.

With all due respect, the fact you didn't realise denying a submission is the same as denying transitions, makes me wonder how much time you've put into learning how to beat this sub spam.

Still waiting for a link or name of a video that highlights this issue.

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Why would I need to provide a link for this? Does anyone need to provide a link proving that the MT clinch is spammed as has been claimed within this same thread? And again, what does me being confused by submission denials have to do with the fact that the stamina tax for repeated failed submissions is inconsistent with the stamina tax for repeated whiffed strikes? It doesn't take any energy to constantly go after submissions lol???


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[GrimLeiper]

Re: Submissions

Why would I need to provide a link for this? Does anyone need to provide a link proving that the MT clinch is spammed as has been claimed within this same thread? And again, what does me being confused by submission denials have to do with the fact that the stamina tax for repeated failed submissions is inconsistent with the stamina tax for repeated whiffed strikes? It doesn't take any energy to constantly go after submissions lol???


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Sorry, someone else suggested watching an EFSL fight from YT to see exactly what the issue was. I was asking for this so I can understand the issue.

I'm saying, anyone spamming subs, from my experience, get punished by denials. Just like spamming any other transition would be punished by denials.


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[teezie]

Re: Submissions

So clinching against the cage is cheese, but throwing constant sub spam is totally fine and just something "the opponent needs to figure out how to deal with". That's a pretty selective narrative right there.

Non stop sub spam with zero set up or regards for stamina is waaaaaaay more cheesy, because you can just totally fluke out a win, even against someone who might be way better than you.

You're not fluking out a win against someone better than you trying to clinch them. That's for damn sure.

I'm not even good at this game and I've literally never been clinch ****ed. I do however find it a great technique to deal with low level to average pressure fighters. Clinch em and force feed em a few body knees and youll cut that pressure down real quick.

Good players can't get cought in the clinch like that tho. I've never been able to clinch a good player and get off real damage.

Good players can still fall prey to flukey sub spam tho, as seen in Esfl.

LOL! Well said, haha. I'm glad someone else picked up on that. There is no way the current sub system is best for balanced competitive play. Again, is anyone in here going to argue that attempting submissions doesn't exert energy? I repeat, it should be as much as a stamina tax as someone spamming whiffed major strikes at air all match. Without you knowing anything else about the stand up system or implementing any technique at all that player is dooming themselves with stupidity. That is how constantly re-attempting horribly set-up submissions throughout a fight should work as well. How is there another side of this argument other than how quickly it gets fixed?

[ragreynolds]

Re: Submissions

The submission system in EA Sports MMA was by far the best submission system ever in an MMA game. It's the only one I've ever actually enjoyed playing with, and I loved how there was a better sense of strategy to them. Plus, the limb subs and the chokes had different minigames. Just felt really good to use.

[RetractedMonkey]

Submissions

The submission system in EA Sports MMA was by far the best submission system ever in an MMA game. It's the only one I've ever actually enjoyed playing with, and I loved how there was a better sense of strategy to them. Plus, the limb subs and the chokes had different minigames. Just felt really good to use.

I did like those systems because there was a real feeling of battling going on, but my main complaint is still present with those as well. They are systems separate from the main core mechanics. I’ll give that striking and grappling need to have different gameplay mechanics because they have to by definition, but not submissions. Submissions are just an extension of grappling, not a separate entity like striking is.

And right now, grappling has more in common with striking than submissions have with grappling.


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[GrimLeiper]

Re: Submissions

LOL! Well said, haha. I'm glad someone else picked up on that. There is no way the current sub system is best for balanced competitive play. Again, is anyone in here going to argue that attempting submissions doesn't exert energy? I repeat, it should be as much as a stamina tax as someone spamming whiffed major strikes at air all match. Without you knowing anything else about the stand up system or implementing any technique at all that player is dooming themselves with stupidity. That is how constantly re-attempting horribly set-up submissions throughout a fight should work as well. How is there another side of this argument other than how quickly it gets fixed?

I did point out that he used some editing of what was actually said.

But hey, fools seldom differ.

BTW, if you deny the submission attempt, they lose stamina like they're whiffing strikes.

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[MacGowan]

Re: Submissions

simple submissions. Only way to roll.

[raypace1]

Re: Submissions

simple submissions. Only way to roll.

[emoji23][emoji28] good old super Nintendo...


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[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: Submissions

The submission system in EA Sports MMA was by far the best submission system ever in an MMA game. It's the only one I've ever actually enjoyed playing with, and I loved how there was a better sense of strategy to them. Plus, the limb subs and the chokes had different minigames. Just felt really good to use.

Me and my friends would have some intense, fun battles with the subs. Screaming at the tv and each other lol, you def can't get that level of intensity with this system. You're pretty much running off a fixed time and you see exactly how many chances there are to escape. They gotta get rid of the timer aspect and make stamina a factor while performing subs.

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[MacGowan]

Re: Submissions

good old super Nintendo...

I'd take that over this any day:

Am I going for a armbar, or in the lab helping to fix Dr. Octavious' circuit boards?