Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

[Papadoc60]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to make this post to share with you the success that I had this season purely grappling and performing submissions. This would not have been possible without the constant tweaks to game balance, no one can even begin to proclaim that this is no longer and MMA game and a kick boxing sim at this point.

This most recent patch change also tweaked submissions to give more success to people applying submissions with a stamina advantage. I'm not sure how many of you played seasons 1-6, but there was a time where there was no real option to take your opponent down or even clinch them. Submissions were a waste of time.



I finished this season with 209 submissions after the patch changes. I don't think they're too easy at all and you will get punished and reversed if you try to do submissions without setting them up, but they are actually viable now. Bulldog chokes, neckties, north south, any kind of submission can be finished with a decent enough stamina advantage and patience.




Although I am pretty satisfied with my record this season, this post isn't just to brag. I want this to serve as an example that submissions are now a viable way to finish fights, because many people don't believe this to be the case currently. This also serves as proof of how well you can do in ranked as a pure grappler.

Me grappling in ranked/tournaments:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/342115120 (13:00 for a best of 3 between me and Edparker01)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/339760306 (4 hours of my ranked play, I get KOed at the end lol)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/339447132 (2 hours of ranked)


Many people in this forum complain about having trouble understanding the ground and clinch mechanics, so please use these video links as an example of how to grapple at the highest level in this game. Please feel free to leave any questions in this thread about clinch/ground/submissions/takedowns or striking used to set these up and I will do my best to answer

[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

yeah u subbed me last night when I was using GSP and I was like "dam, good **** on you, you actually made me feel like subs are a threat for the first time in this game"

Still, I don't have a 1ms and I am wondering how much that matters in top level play right now. . I just really don't like the aesthetic, sound, etc. Plus having to switch monitors for one game.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

I honest just cant stand the sub system. I get by with my moderate grappling since only maybe 1 out 20 fighters even bother using subs outside spamming it anyway. Its just a crap sub system and it doesnt even interest me to learn it, I feel that's also why hardly anyone really tries it.

So I'm really only worried about sub denial. I never can tell what way to deny sub attempts besides maybe the triangle.

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[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

@papadoc What's your method of blocking your opponents gates during the submission mini game ? Any tips ? Thanks

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[FlaccoNumba5]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

@papadoc What's your method of blocking your opponents gates during the submission mini game ? Any tips ? Thanks

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

Oh you want the SAUCE sauce

[Tyeanisbae]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

Getting a sub against a fighter who has a higher sub defence than your offense is still too hard IMO.

[burningxspirit]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

that's an amazing ratio of subs! you're the man. subs can be lethal and you dont even need the likes of Maia and Ortega to pull them off if your technique is on point .

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

Oh you want the SAUCE sauce

Hahahaha flaco lemme alone ...he offered to teach I want to learn. How you been tho ?

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[Papadoc60]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

@papadoc What's your method of blocking your opponents gates during the submission mini game ? Any tips ? Thanks

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

Good question. I would say that one of the best things to remember is that you should commit to blocking a certain pattern first (maybe they go all 4 directions quickly, or they just defend three ways by holding them for longer than usual) the most important thing to remember is that once you figure out someones pattern they tend to do the opposite. If someone is switching defending gates really quickly and you catch on, they will probably start holding the gates a little longer too. If someone uses all 4 gates to defend clockwise, they will generally start going counter clockwise with 4 gates if you catch on.

Be prepared for them to go left-right and up-down as these are less predictable than left-up up-right right-down down-left patterns (some people still only attempt 2 gate defense). It's all about using your intuition, it helps more than anything to try and think about what you would do if you were getting subbed. Typically, people don't wait on one gate for too long at first so switching quickly is usually the best way to start imo.

[Papadoc60]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

I honest just cant stand the sub system. I get by with my moderate grappling since only maybe 1 out 20 fighters even bother using subs outside spamming it anyway. Its just a crap sub system and it doesnt even interest me to learn it, I feel that's also why hardly anyone really tries it.

So I'm really only worried about sub denial. I never can tell what way to deny sub attempts besides maybe the triangle.

Sent from my SM-J700P using Operation Sports mobile app

Learning the submissions animations is really basic and you'll probably just need to grapple more or have someone try to apply them to you over and over in quick fight. A lot of the denials for positions flip depending on the camera angle so I don't think it would be that beneficial to list them for you.

The animations give you an idea of which way to deny based on which side of the body they attack ( down denies the rear naked choke from back mount, you deny the half guard arm triangle the same way you would deny full mount etc etc )

I get why you might not like the sub system, but it's fairly easy to avoid and not that hard to figure out if you try. Personally, I like having to predict where they will go next and I don't think this system is any worse than UD3's submission system. Submissions are tricky to figure out how to implement them in a game like this.

[Haz_____]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

My problem with escaping subs is sometimes Ill flick the stick up and down, or left and right, but the bars wont fill at all. Its like im flicking to fast for either direction to actually register, so nothing fills up.

So next time ill try to be slower and more precise, and then I just get tapped.

Is this an intended mechanic? Or a side effect of some kind of input lag from a bad TV or something?

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

My problem with escaping subs is sometimes Ill flick the stick up and down, or left and right, but the bars wont fill at all. Its like im flicking to fast for either direction to actually register, so nothing fills up.

So next time ill try to be slower and more precise, and then I just get tapped.

Is this an intended mechanic? Or a side effect of some kind of input lag from a bad TV or something?

Yeah the quicker the better ...you have to watch your stamina as if it's low you could get subbed real quick .

Just try and practice more often with friends and watch for the sub animations.

I mostly play offline with my mates . Custom fight mode. So we can sort of see when some one is going for a sub. So I definitely have to sort of set up my subs ( I mean I only go for subs in certain positions where there are more than one subs available ).

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[GrimLeiper]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

Psn GrimLeiper. Nothing special but I love grappling and submissions, hook me up for a spar.

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[EarvGotti]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

Man papadoc thank you so much for this, honestly. It's motivating to see someone really dominate with submissions and grappling. Watching your fights is just a joy.

Question: Is there anyone other than Jacarae that is as dangerous when it comes to submissions?

[Papadoc60]

Re: Season 7 Submissions/Grappling

Man papadoc thank you so much for this, honestly. It's motivating to see someone really dominate with submissions and grappling. Watching your fights is just a joy.

Question: Is there anyone other than Jacarae that is as dangerous when it comes to submissions?

Maia would probably be the next best when it comes to submissions. The most important thing to consider is that as long as your opponent has sub defense equal to or less than your submission offense, you have a great chance at submitting them (especially with a stamina advantage). Most of the strikers in the game have sub defense around 88-91, so if you have a grappler you will usually have sub offense equal to or greater than them.

This means if you match up with someone using Conor, Till, Lawler, Whittaker, Costa, Wanderlai, DC/JDS, Thompson, etc then you stand a good chance at submitting them no matter who you have if you are good enough at submissions as a player.