Bishop and frost

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Bishop and frost

You've completely lost the plot. You haven't clearly said anything. I explained why Mike Tyson isn't a good example. Instead of providing an explanation of WHY he is, you just continue to use that example. That is NOT how debate works.

Nevermind the fact that you keep strawmanning me. You aren't on the level, my friend. And much like bad players who blame the game instead of their own shortcomings, no amount of explanation is going to redirect you.

The reason WHY Mike Tyson is being compared to Isaac Frost and Andre Bishop is because he is the only purely boxing-based character this series had ever seen prior to Bishop and Frost.

I, and probably others too, feel that in order to make them fair characters in the game, it is not such a bad idea for them to be similar to Tyson in terms of moveset and stats, because we liked how he functioned in the previous game as a top boxer in an MMA world.

You are the one who keeps repeating that they're fictional and comparing them to Mike Tyson (who in UFC 2 was also someone who "transitioned to MMA" and could have had good kicks and elbows but didn't) is a flawed argument. Who should we compare them to then, since they might as well be invincible? Nobody? What method and reasoning would you use to establish what their stats should be in the case you felt they were overpowered and unfair compared to the actual, real-life fighters signed to the UFC that this game is supposed to represent?

Anyway, this is mountains out of smallhills and completely pointless at this point. Have a nice evening.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Bishop and frost

You are arguing in circles. lmfao I keep telling you that Mike Tyson WASN'T transitioning to MMA in UFC2. You truly don't like reading do you? He was put in as if he was plucked straight from boxing into MMA (with only the base level moves that all fighters had to have). Like James Toney in real life. You wouldn't call him an MMA fighter because he fought in the UFC would you? Because you fight MMA doesn't mean you ARE an MMA fighter. Not a hard concept to grasp. If Frost and Bishop were plucked straight from FNC and placed in the game, I might likely take issue with their knees and elbows as well. But they weren't. They were given a storyline explaining how they trained and acquired the knowledge to use these techniques. Tyson DIDN'T GET THAT. What don't you understand?

You keep saying Mike Tyson was the only pure boxer before Frost and Bishop which is categorically wrong. He is STILL the only pure boxer. If that promo video was never released, they would still be pure boxers and we wouldn't be having this discussion. But it was. Jon Anik even recorded new audio for it for Christ's sake.

You shouldn't compare them to ANYONE! That's what I'm saying, dude! They are the only fictional characters on the roster. You don't argue their stats based on other guest fighters, you argue it based on the fact that it's disrupting the meta.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Bishop and frost

You are arguing in circles. lmfao I keep telling you that Mike Tyson WASN'T transitioning to MMA in UFC2. You truly don't like reading do you? He was put in as if he was plucked straight from boxing into MMA (with only the base level moves that all fighters had to have). Like James Toney in real life. You wouldn't call him an MMA fighter because he fought in the UFC would you? Because you fight MMA doesn't mean you ARE an MMA fighter. Not a hard concept to grasp. If Frost and Bishop were plucked straight from FNC and placed in the game, I might likely take issue with their knees and elbows as well. But they weren't. They were given a storyline explaining how they trained and acquired the knowledge to use these techniques. Tyson DIDN'T GET THAT. What don't you understand?

You keep saying Mike Tyson was the only pure boxer before Frost and Bishop which is categorically wrong. He is STILL the only pure boxer. If that promo video was never released, they would still be pure boxers and we wouldn't be having this discussion. But it was. Jon Anik even recorded new audio for it for Christ's sake.

You shouldn't compare them to ANYONE! That's what I'm saying, dude! They are the only fictional characters on the roster. You don't argue their stats based on other guest fighters, you argue it based on the fact that it's disrupting the meta.

Okay, fair enough. There was that video footage, indeed. It is also more detailed than Tyson's trailer for UFC 2, as it actually bothers to explain their transition and explicitly create some narrative on that transition. This is true.

I still maintain that Mike Tyson, the character, (just like Bruce Lee) also made a fictitious transition from boxing to MMA. He learned kicks, TDD, some elbows, grappling even, just like Frost and Bishop did and are shown training, but in his case they were all rudimentary. He also could have had pretty damn good stats and moves, as he could have "learned" them. And he is an MMA fighter in UFC 2. He kicks, he elbows, he can operate on the ground (to what success is irrelevant here). If you're in the cage, you're an MMA fighter. So based on that I don't think my argument is as baseless or irrelevant as you make it out to be.

All of that being said, I get your point and I get it better now - the disagreement seems to come from the fact that you see Tyson as a boxer and I see him as boxer turned MMA fighter, which, much like Frost and Bishop, is something fictional - Tyson never competed in MMA. But you do have a point, it's a matter of viewpoint and perspective I suppose. There isn't really a right or wrong on this one. The way I see it, Tyson's just a good example of how an elite boxer coming to the world of MMA, even a fictional one, should operate in the game. EA may disagree and make them well-rounded machines. It is what it is - opinions and perspectives.

What rubs me the wrong way is your condescending attitude. Surely you could see and understand the reasoning behind my words, yet chose to argue with me in the manner that you did. Anyway, I see your point and you do have one. Again, have a good evening.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Bishop and frost

The main reason I become so agitated with you guys is because it takes so damn long to come to the point you just did. My posts were just me reiterating my same point over and over until I hit the right combination of words to hammer it home. I understand your point. I always understand where my opposition is coming from, but this moment normally never happens. They generally fail to ever acknowledge my assertions and arguments having merit. It was me trying to get you to understand my side when you were constantly assuming that I had a vendetta against nerfing them when I had said I didn't multiple times.

What you just said there is an actual rebuttal. You consider Tyson to be a transitioned MMA fighter in the spirit of the game. On that we can agree or disagree. There is no technical right or wrong. There was a right or wrong answer regarding whether or not Frost and Bishop were MMA fighters in FNC canon. Which was my initial point; that you can't judge them as pure boxers anymore.

Anyway, I actually appreciate your last response even though we don't agree. It tells me that you're participating in good faith, which automatically sets you above most posters here.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Bishop and frost

The main reason I become so agitated with you guys is because it takes so damn long to come to the point you just did. My posts were just me reiterating my same point over and over until I hit the right combination of words to hammer it home. I understand your point. I always understand where my opposition is coming from, but this moment normally never happens. They generally fail to ever acknowledge my assertions and arguments having merit. It was me trying to get you to understand my side when you were constantly assuming that I had a vendetta against nerfing them when I had said I didn't multiple times.

What you just said there is an actual rebuttal. You consider Tyson to be a transitioned MMA fighter in the spirit of the game. On that we can agree or disagree. There is no technical right or wrong. There was a right or wrong answer regarding whether or not Frost and Bishop were MMA fighters in FNC canon. Which was my initial point; that you can't judge them as pure boxers anymore.

Anyway, I actually appreciate your last response even though we don't agree. It tells me that you're participating in good faith, which automatically sets you above most posters here.

Oh no, I realised right away that you don't care whether they're buffed or not, and that your argument is entirely in principle and you aren't taking sides. I just couldn't quite get why you are so against (a bit too strong of a word but I'll use that) people comparing Tyson with F and B, so I responded, but it turned out that we simply have differing views on what Tyson is in EA UFC.

[Good Grappler]

Re: Bishop and frost

I thought Bishop and Frost were real boxers. Lol. Had no idea they were fictional characters. Shows how much I know about boxing.

Yeah if these guys are legit fictional characters, that definitely changes my argument. My whole argument was that pro boxers shouldn’t have such great ground stats. If they’re not even real fighters, it’s pointless to argue on what their ground stats should be.

So I’ll just adjust my argument slightly and leave it at this: they’re OP, because their standup is insanely good and their ground game isn’t bad enough to balance it.

[Donnie_Brasco_FR]

Re: Bishop and frost

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[bmlimo]

Re: Bishop and frost

Come on guys... we have Dana, Bruce lee and joe rogan...

[Haz_____]

Re: Bishop and frost

Come on guys... These fake fighters have a fake story for why they are so OP.

It's all good.

Close down the thread.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Bishop and frost

Come on guys... These fake fighters have a fake story for why they are so OP.

It's all good.

Close down the thread.

Well, if you weren't just an obstructive and reactionary poster with no ideas, you would understand that I never argued for or against them being nerfed. Only that saying they are boxers is a fallacious argument. But comprehension was never your fortitude, Haz.

[bmlimo]

Re: Bishop and frost

Come on guys... These fake fighters have a fake story for why they are so OP.

It's all good.

Close down the thread.

No man, they messed up when they put those ridiculous cafs... and nobody said a word... now they put fn guys with op stats(like they had in the game) and u guys are complaining...

[Sausage]

Re: Bishop and frost

I hope they add the rest of the cast too!! That would make for fun tourneys.

[oshighwayman]

Re: Bishop and frost

i dont understand either why imaginary fighters from different game are such a good graplers

[aholbert32]

Re: Bishop and frost

i dont understand either why imaginary fighters from different game are such a good graplers

Because in their imaginary story in UFC 3, they have been taking imaginary grappling training to prepare for their imaginary fights in the UFC.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Bishop and frost

Because in their imaginary story in UFC 3, they have been taking imaginary grappling training to prepare for their imaginary fights in the UFC.

Isnt their age the same as FN tho? So wouldnt that mean they dont have much grappling training?