Bishop and frost

[Tyeanisbae]

These guys should not have better ground stats than saki I am sick of coming up against these guys and not being able to dominate them grappling with actual MMA fighters on the roster. It’s so frustrating. The addition of these two have made it crazy hard to use someone like volkov or arlovski as you can’t dominate the ground or standup and why do they have knees elbows and kicks smh...

[Gion]

Re: Bishop and frost

You can dominate and gas them pretty easily, that being said I dont mind takedown defense being good, just make their bottom game and sub D atrocious

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[Tyeanisbae]

Re: Bishop and frost

You can dominate and gas them pretty easily, that being said I dont mind takedown defense being good, just make their bottom game and sub D atrocious

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Frost has 95 striking Stamina and 87 grapple stamina with 90 endurance and Bishop’s stamina is similar. They are not easy to gas especially when someone good is using them. Especially bishop as he moves like a middleweight with a heavyweights power...

[Sausage]

Re: Bishop and frost

I love playing offline “Stand and Bang” with them. Almost takes care of that “boxing game” itch.

I really wish “Stand and Bang” was on online mode.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Bishop and frost

What annoys me about them is their moveset. In UFC 2 I knew Tyson had power and speed in his hands but that was it. He had a leg kick and that's it as far as I remember. In any case, every time I faced him or used him his hands were the only weapon and anything else he might have had was rudimentary. And rightfully so - he's a boxer. These guys have the whole toolbox - knees, elbows, roundhouse kicks to the body and who knows what else. So you're not really fighting a boxer either. Hopefully they get seriously nerfed once that marketing campaign starts to cool off.

[Good Grappler]

Re: Bishop and frost

I was literally just gonna make this thread yesterday.

Look, I can totally understand EA’s reasoning for adding these fighters. It draws in the old Fight Night fans, seeing as there’s no boxing videogames right now. It plays on the “boxing vs MMA” concept, which new advertisements compel players to test out in the game. I get all that.

But why do they need excellent grappling stats? New players are gonna suck on the ground anyways, stats won’t help them.

I mean, it’s just such a weird look for the leading videogame in MMA to make professional boxers capable of killing the entire roster. The advertising campaign is “can a boxer compete in the UFC”, and based upon the stats given to these boxers, they want the answer to be a resounding YES. But my question is WHY? Why does Boxing have to beat MMA, in an MMA game?

So again, I get why they were added. Great idea. But the OP ground stats don’t make sense to me.

[Reinfarcements]

Re: Bishop and frost

Takedown defense can stay relatively good. But if taken down they should absolutely suck on the ground. As someone who loved to use Tyson in UFC 2, its a reality I had to deal with to get the benefit of Tyson's boxing. I think its only fair.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Bishop and frost

I will say this again (even though none of you will even care and will probably still be mad). These are FICTIONAL fighters. No, they aren't boxers. They aren't anything. They are made up characters. They could have 100 in every stat and you guys still wouldn't be in the right using your current arguments about fighting style. It just doesn't work.

Even if you were to go by the excuse that they are pure boxers, they aren't. In the promo trailer for this patch they showed Frost and Bishop training and fighting up the ranks after switching to MMA. This leads up to their eventual rematch in MMA. The FNC canon has been retconned. Sorry guys, they are MMA fighters now and FORMER professional boxers.

It makes sense that they would have great boxing, but still have limited kicks and knees. Their ground game is not good and I don't know why you guys keep overstating it like it isn't lower-mid tier for both.

The only reasonable argument is that they are fictional characters and disrupt the flow of ranked. Anything else said holds no water.

[Sausage]

Re: Bishop and frost

It’s really good for me that I’m a casual/big fight fan of MMA, so I can enjoy the additions of Frost/Bishop and not over analyze the whole DLC.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Bishop and frost

I will say this again (even though none of you will even care and will probably still be mad). These are FICTIONAL fighters. No, they aren't boxers. They aren't anything. They are made up characters. They could have 100 in every stat and you guys still wouldn't be in the right using your current arguments about fighting style. It just doesn't work.

Even if you were to go by the excuse that they are pure boxers, they aren't. In the promo trailer for this patch they showed Frost and Bishop training and fighting up the ranks after switching to MMA. This leads up to their eventual rematch in MMA. The FNC canon has been retconned. Sorry guys, they are MMA fighters now and FORMER professional boxers.

It makes sense that they would have great boxing, but still have limited kicks and knees. Their ground game is not good and I don't know why you guys keep overstating it like it isn't lower-mid tier for both.

The only reasonable argument is that they are fictional characters and disrupt the flow of ranked. Anything else said holds no water.

I disagree. Obviously they are fictional characters which doesn't tie them to any realistic stats. That much is clear. I agree that their grappling stats are not good, but people's argument is that they should be even worse. What's your issue with that? Exactly because they are fictional former boxers people can argue as much as they like what the stats should be. Mike Tyson was also a former boxer moving in to MMA but wasn't a world-beating kickboxer all of a sudden for the sake of sales (it has to be said that his stats were hidden but he really wasn't anything other than a very good boxer). And yes, part of why people argue what they argue is that it (could disrupt) the flow of ranked. I don't really get what your issue is with people being dissatisfied with having to face fictional characters with better stats than their real-life fighters. I really don't think what they say holds no water or is irrelevant or insignificant, they have simple but fair arguments and concerns. You don't have a problem with Frost and Bishop, they do.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Bishop and frost

I disagree. Obviously they are fictional characters which doesn't tie them to any realistic stats. That much is clear. I agree that their grappling stats are not good, but people's argument is that they should be even worse. What's your issue with that? Exactly because they are fictional former boxers people can argue as much as they like what the stats should be. Mike Tyson was also a former boxer moving in to MMA but wasn't a world-beating kickboxer all of a sudden for the sake of sales (it has to be said that his stats were hidden but he really wasn't anything other than a very good boxer). And yes, part of why people argue what they argue is that it (could disrupt) the flow of ranked. I don't really get what your issue is with people being dissatisfied with having to face fictional characters with better stats than their real-life fighters. I really don't think what they say holds no water or is irrelevant or insignificant, they have simple but fair arguments and concerns. You don't have a problem with Frost and Bishop, they do.

I don’t have an issue with people not wanting them in ranked. Yet again, failure to actually read what I’m saying in lieu of not immediately agreeing with me.

This isn’t an opinion issue. You can’t just say “I disagree”. I’m pointing out a flaw in the argument. Saying that they are boxers and should have bad stats is a fallacious argument because they aren’t real and there is an in game canon reason for them to have these stats.

Again, if you read what I said, having issue with their stats is totally okay. Using the argument that you currently are using is not okay.

I actually didn’t give an opinion on it either way. That is you, again, not reading. I’m pointing out the fact that you guys are arguing this the entirely wrong way. Just say you don’t want them in ranked or you want them nerfed because they are fictional. You don’t have to use bad arguments to do that.

And your Mike Tyson analogy is simply awful. He never transitioned to MMA and he is a real person. That is why he was rated the way he was. They made no promotional material creating an in game storyline either like they did for Bishop and Frost.


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[Kingslayer04]

Re: Bishop and frost

I don’t have an issue with people not wanting them in ranked. Yet again, failure to actually read what I’m saying in lieu of not immediately agreeing with me.

This isn’t an opinion issue. You can’t just say “I disagree”. I’m pointing out a flaw in the argument. Saying that they are boxers and should have bad stats is a fallacious argument because they aren’t real and there is an in game canon reason for them to have these stats.

Again, if you read what I said, having issue with their stats is totally okay. Using the argument that you currently are using is not okay.

I actually didn’t give an opinion on it either way. That is you, again, not reading. I’m pointing out the fact that you guys are arguing this the entirely wrong way. Just say you don’t want them in ranked or you want them nerfed because they are fictional. You don’t have to use bad arguments to do that.

And your Mike Tyson analogy is simply awful. He never transitioned to MMA and he is a real person. That is why he was rated the way he was. They made no promotional material creating an in game storyline either like they did for Bishop and Frost.


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Nerfing them is my own argument - nerf their movesets and maybe nerf their grappling. I think this is what most others who don't like the characters want too.

Okay, Frost and Bishop aren't real, EA can do whatever they want with them, that much is clear to everyone. We are voicing our issues with these characters and hope they are nerfed, and since the only pure boxing-oriented character there's been in the series so far is Mike Tyson, he seems to be a fair point of reference as to what the FNC characters' stats should be. Or maybe I should say moveset, because Tyson's stats were hidden. I think he did function in a fair manner in UFC 2 though, so that may apply for the stats after all.

Now, EA can give Frost and Bishop 98 grappling and jumping switch kicks if they want, obviously. We're just giving some sort of input.

[RetractedMonkey]

Bishop and frost

Dude. Like their stats or don’t like their stats. It doesn’t matter to me. Quit trying to put words in my mouth. All I’m saying is sort your arguments out. I’m not even fighting you on this. I don’t care if they get nerfed! Read what I’m saying without attributing prejudice or intent. Take my words for what they are.

There is a right way and a wrong way to try and enact changes. Using flawed arguments is wrong. Applying real life standards to fictional characters is not the correct route for getting them nerfed.

Again, I’m not making a judgement on your input. I’m making a judgement on the way you are stating your input.


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[Kingslayer04]

Re: Bishop and frost

Dude. Like their stats or don’t like their stats. It doesn’t matter to me. Quit trying to put words in my mouth. All I’m saying is sort your arguments out. I’m not even fighting you on this. I don’t care if they get nerfed! Read what I’m saying without attributing prejudice or intent. Take my words for what they are.

There is a right way and a wrong way to try and enact changes. Using flawed arguments is wrong. Applying real life standards to fictional characters is not the correct route for getting them nerfed.

Again, I’m not making a judgement on your input. I’m making a judgement on the way you are stating your input.


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Yes, you appear to have a problem with comparing fictional boxers-turned-MMA fighters to Mike Tyson, who is a real person. I clearly explained why the fictional characters and Tyson are being compared, but this is being ignored completely. Nevermind.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Bishop and frost

You've completely lost the plot. You haven't clearly said anything. I explained why Mike Tyson isn't a good example. Instead of providing an explanation of WHY he is, you just continue to use that example. That is NOT how debate works. Mike Tyson is the only pure boxer ever placed into the game. Frost and Bishop, like it or not, are 100% MMA fighters now (with pro boxing backgrounds).

Nevermind the fact that you keep strawmanning me. You aren't on the level, my friend. And much like bad players who blame the game instead of their own shortcomings, no amount of explanation is going to redirect you.