Why can people play like terminators

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

the best player on the ps4 marches forward with combos but he is more technical

What do you mean by "marches forward"? I remember months ago, the issue was mindless aggression. Someone just using head movement, movement and/or combos to constantly push the pace. The key word was "mindless" though.

If the guy is being technical and moving forward, is that a bad thing? Would we have a problem with someone who was technical but refused to fight an inside fight?

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

If you look at top players, there are in fact many tools to deter agressive fighters (slip straights, lunges, front kicks to the body etc.). The problem is that those tools are much harder to use effectively and require much more patience and time to learn than just barreling forward. This is the reason why fighting aggressively is suicide at high levels because all the top players can use those tools effectively.

In the lower levels, you have to always play the long game for outside fighting to be effective, which means the fight goes on longer, which means there is more risk of getting clipped by a hook-upper and dying.

This. Explained it much better than I did.

[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

You shouldnt doubt it. The top players who are GCs are adamant that being hyper aggressive or even aggressive against someone who knows how to use the defensive tools is a death sentence. I've seen similar statements in the discord and some on here.

I dont have a dog in this fight because I honestly could give a **** about online ranked play (unless it somehow effects offline play). With that said, the devs have added a good amount of buffs to movement and outside fighting since release. I'm not saying that those buffs dont have some downsides (those downsides were added for balance reasons which is another ranked comp player demand) but they were added.

That also goes to another question. Should we expect "weaker lower rated" characters to be viable on online ranked? If I'm using Paul Felder and I'm fighting a Conor McGregor against a player that is equally skilled, he should beat me most of the time, right?

I have a hard time with your last sentence, because in reality Conor vs Felder wouldn't be that easy of a fight for Conor. I think I would favor Conor but Felder could present some issues for him in the clinch and in pacing if he could survive the initial onslaught, and felder has a good chin.

That's the one thing I wish there was more of in this game. We need to start respecting more how styles make fights, a lower ranked guy like Lando Vanatta can give someone like Tony Ferguson PROBLEMS because of how he matches up stylistically, not because he has better cardio or striking speed.


I'd love to see even lower ranked fighters have some viable strengths that compliment their weaknesses. Right now, we have several low ranked fighters that are just plain terrible, as in, they make ZERO sense to ever use because they are so bad. Alex Oliveira comes to mind as do some others.


Also, the class ranking for some fighters makes no sense. For example, how is Anderson Silva not a B fighter with his stats? Is it out of respect? He has insanely low leg health, low striking stamina, a shotty chin, etc.

Things have been improving every few months tho, we are getting better and better

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

As someone that used to complain about aggression being easy I can definitelu say we have more than enough tools go deal with it now.

You guys gotta practice counter striking. When you slip or lunge queue up a counter combo and you’ll be rocking/dropping people left and right.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I have a hard time with your last sentence, because in reality Conor vs Felder wouldn't be that easy of a fight for Conor. I think I would favor Conor but Felder could present some issues for him in the clinch and in pacing if he could survive the initial onslaught, and felder has a good chin.

That's the one thing I wish there was more of in this game. We need to start respecting more how styles make fights, a lower ranked guy like Lando Vanatta can give someone like Tony Ferguson PROBLEMS because of how he matches up stylistically, not because he has better cardio or striking speed.


I'd love to see even lower ranked fighters have some viable strengths that compliment their weaknesses. Right now, we have several low ranked fighters that are just plain terrible, as in, they make ZERO sense to ever use because they are so bad. Alex Oliveira comes to mind as do some others.


Also, the class ranking for some fighters makes no sense. For example, how is Anderson Silva not a B fighter with his stats? Is it out of respect? He has insanely low leg health, low striking stamina, a shotty chin, etc.

Things have been improving every few months tho, we are getting better and better

I didnt say it would be an easy fight. I said that the expectation would be that Conor would win. Conor would be a decent favorite against him.

To the rest of your point, lets take Alex Oliveria. Solid fighter. He has some solid performances but his best wins are over a arguably shot Carlos Condit and Tim Means (The Brooks win was solid but he was way overweight for that). His lost pretty much every big fight he's had (Cerrone/Nelson/Medieros) in the UFC.

Now the reality is that the large majority of player who play ranked play with top fighters. They just do. You arent going to face alot of people using Tim Means. You are going to see more GSPs and Woodleys and Wonderboys. So how do we make an Oliveria more viable without sacrificing the fact that he there is a significant skill difference between him and those top fighters?

We've been able to do it with grapplers like Maia where they have really high (and deserved) grappling stats and ****ty standup stats but what do we do about people like Cowboy Oliveria who are slightly above average in everything? Even rated properly, those fighters will still feel not viable simply because you are facing the top fighters in the division regularly.

[RetractedMonkey]

Why can people play like terminators

exactly there is just 0 reason to NOT march forward

Your block breaks down at almost double the rate when moving forward. One 1634 combo will eat the entire block. I will then either reset and hit you with another one if you attempt to strike back or let my stamina recover for a second and hit a 12 head kick if you start backing up. That will normally rock someone even at the beginning of the fight.

If you come near me and sit on block without moving, I will hit you with single shot lead body hooks and body uppercuts. Knees too if I have them. When you open up, I’ll start ripping head uppercuts and hooks.

The advanced back lunge can be immediately cancelled into a straight-lead hook.

Side slip straights can instantly rock someone moving forward with straight angle strikes.

Advanced side lunges completely matador them, switching the angle and draining their stamina.

Major back leans completely avoid any hook, elbow, or uppercut strike at any range. A lead hook can be used to rock them as a counter almost every time if they try to follow your lean with another strike.

The only time pressure is really a problem is if you are fighting Conor McGregor with a B level fighter or less. A level fighters should have high enough block, movement, and head movement stats to compete easily.

You say you’ve never seen a top player back up because you’ve never seen a top player. The top 15 players in ranked are good players (which you’ve likely not played). All the rest of the top 100 are garbage. The rest of the good players are on the main cards of the ESFL.

Kenetic and Swiss Libax are the only aggressive top players I can think of at the moment and even they have to be careful managing their stamina. Swiss just plays a gambit hoping to knock you out and Kenetic has a heavy body kick game in order to even out his stamina loss. The rest of the players I’m thinking of are methodical. Pryoxis is number 1 on Xbox and he is the opposite of a pressure fighter and will murder you EASY if you try him like that. lmao


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[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Not to mention, those are only the STRIKING options. Add in grappling tools and you have well over ten options to counter pressure. Making it the best style at lower levels but the absolute worst style at a high level.

It’s funny because low level players use pressure as a crutch, but high level players that pressure fight have to be even more technical with their pressure to stand any chance against other good players.

Pressure is easy to learn, hard to master.


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[micmuted]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

any YouTube channels that have good examples of dealing with pressure i should check out?

[VitoBurrito]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

any YouTube channels that have good examples of dealing with pressure i should check out?

Search ea ufc 3 how to deal with pressure fighters, there’s a ton of them, romeroxvll, Imuhboxer, mmafro, martialmind, rickyjsports are all good, pandagaming for great ground tips

[LoveThisLife]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Its funny because a lot of top players say its suicide to just march forward.

Top players do not make up the majority of the player base. There are a lot of people who feel as though sticking to a person like glue and comboing is far too effective in this game.

Maybe the players that were intimately involved in the development of this game (smdh) have a great understanding of how to avoid this pressure... but most people do not.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Top players do not make up the majority of the player base. There are a lot of people who feel as though sticking to a person like glue and comboing is far too effective in this game.

Maybe the players that were intimately involved in the development of this game (smdh) have a great understanding of how to avoid this pressure... but most people do not.

The options are there. They arent hidden. It appears that it takes practice and a willingness to use those defensive options in order to defend against pressure.

I was super concerned with this issue when the options werent there. Now that they are, its up to the user to learn how to use them.

[RetractedMonkey]

Why can people play like terminators

Top players do not make up the majority of the player base. There are a lot of people who feel as though sticking to a person like glue and comboing is far too effective in this game.



Maybe the players that were intimately involved in the development of this game (smdh) have a great understanding of how to avoid this pressure... but most people do not.

So you’re just going to keep using the Fight Night double standard? It’s okay if people don’t know how to defend this kind of thing in UFC, but if they can’t play well in the Bastion of Balanced GameplayTM, Fight Night Champion they just don’t know enough? I was not involved in making this game at all and most of the guys that were aren’t even competitive players. MartialMind, while a great player, isn’t really top ranked and Kenetic is the only other one that plays in competition.

The facts are that simple counters exist to detract from pressure fighting. The way you feel about it doesn’t really matter. You could feel like the jab is overpowered or some other eccentric pet peeve. Doesn’t make it true.

As for players that can deal with pressure, it’s easy to find them on YouTube. The only issue is that most players that they are going to be playing are closer to their level, so pressure fighting in the way you experience it isn’t something they’re going to come across that often. EdParker and Pryoxis are my recommendations.


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[Trillz]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

What do you mean by "marches forward"? I remember months ago, the issue was mindless aggression. Someone just using head movement, movement and/or combos to constantly push the pace. The key word was "mindless" though.

If the guy is being technical and moving forward, is that a bad thing? Would we have a problem with someone who was technical but refused to fight an inside fight?

no if you master it its ok but its too easy to march people down with combos. they force u into their fight only thing u have to do is run and lose the round and hope their stamina gets low enough.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

no if you master it its ok but its too easy to march people down with combos. they force u into their fight only thing u have to do is run and lose the round and hope their stamina gets low enough.

RetractedMonkey literally posted a long response detailing ways to beat it.

You guys are looking at your opponent’s all wrong.

If they’re constantly throwing combos each strike is an opportunity for you to counter them. If you’re a grappler when they move forward it’s a chance to clinch or land a TD

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

RetractedMonkey literally posted a long response detailing ways to beat it.

You guys are looking at your opponent’s all wrong.

If they’re constantly throwing combos each strike is an opportunity for you to counter them. If you’re a grappler when they move forward it’s a chance to clinch or land a TD

6 mos ago, I argued ALOT with the other gamechangers about this. They were claiming that people on OS wanted pressure nerfed without having to do anything to avoid it. Back then you and I (and Martial and others) claimed that there werent enough options to do anything to avoid it.

Now there is. They've added a bunch of them (a few that were mentioned by RM). If you use them, you can mitigate pressure.

I'm starting to feel like maybe they were right. Maybe people just want to be able to fight outside without having to actually do things to keep the distance. The game has to find a balance between pressure fighting being the best meta and running being the best meta. I think they've done a decent job of finding that middle ground.