Why can people play like terminators

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I dont understand 3 and how that would make the connect % decrease.

Make block break easier would mean more strikes would land which would increase the connect %

Increasing the vulnerability to body shots when holding block (which as I said is the #1 form of defense people use) would likely lead to more body rocks, encourage more mixup and likely lead to a higher number of body TKOs which would be unrealistic.

Movement while blocking has already been slowed. Also if you just hold block while moving forward the block will break down easier.

I'm still not convinced that parries would decrease the connect percentage because I'm not convinced that without the counter window people will be incentivized enough to use a more difficult way to defend. People learned to parry in UFC 2 because if you were good at it, it gave you a huge counter window.

As distance is altered by the power modified strikes would be far less like to land.

I split it up into two sections, first section was providing alternatives to block and second was making block less reliable. Incentives for both sides are needed imo.

I mean all movement, this is why wonderboy and till use hands down stances as it limits there movement.

Parrys were too easy on 2 thats why it was used.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

The stamina cost for strikes should be increased. The 100+ strike totals a round should be an anomaly reserved for high output fighters like Holloway, Diaz, and Velasquez.



That's because the parries in the earlier EA UFC games were incomplete and were represented wrong.

The parries in the EA UFC games were immobile, had a free counter window, and stopped the flow of combos. None of this is how parries actually work. There should be both defensive and offensive parries. The defensive parries being the standard deflection and the offensive ones being active parries or block peel.

The difference between defensive parries and blocking would be that parries divert strikes whereas blocking absorbs strikes. Which would allow for less damage taken and if arm damage meant more than it does would wear out the arms less- which means more retained speed and power.

Defensive parry

Spoiler

The difference between offensive parries and blocking would be that you can actively block the path of strikes with active parries, or block peel.

Offensive parry

Spoiler

Parries should've been mobile, no free counter window, and able to follow up for both sides. The follow-up counter from the parrier should be blockable/avoidable as well. Parries shouldn't have prevented the parried opponent from throwing subsequent strikes, like the gifs demonstrate.

Spoiler

They should be a simple deflection or catch, without a free hit. They should be mobile, not freeze you in place.





There is also active blocking which isn't exactly parrying but it is in the family.





Mistiming parries were also not really punished in the earlier games.

Parries are effective at stopping overagression but, along with the clinch, were poorly represented in the EA UFC games. I mean there isn't even open guard clinch.

Imo keep parrys and hand fighting seperate, two different issues.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

The stamina cost for strikes should be increased. The 100+ strike totals a round should be an anomaly reserved for high output fighters like Holloway, Diaz, and Velasquez.

That doesnt seem to be the game that everyone wants though. Ranked comp fighters are against stamina increases tied strictly to output. The devs are also concerned that new and casual players (who typically have high output) will be discouraged if they are gassing in the 2nd round simply because they threw alot of strikes.

The solution is to add a sim stamina mode online for people like the folks here at OS who want more realistic stamina but there are also concerns that adding that to ranked online will split the user base and make it harder to find fights.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

As distance is altered by the power modified strikes would be far less like to land.

I split it up into two sections, first section was providing alternatives to block and second was making block less reliable. Incentives for both sides are needed imo.

I mean all movement, this is why wonderboy and till use hands down stances as it limits there movement.

Parrys were too easy on 2 thats why it was used.

So making them harder will make people more likely to use them? Sorry I'm confused because I thought the complaint we were talking about was people was ways to decrease the connect %.

[The meticulous Esp]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

..at the same time, is an easy solution for the Developers.

I think 2% more long-term estamina cost for blocked strikes is needed, would be PERFECT imo.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

..at the same time, is an easy solution for the Developers.

I think only 2% more long-term estamina cost, would be enough.

2% for each strike that hits the block?

[johnmangala]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Imo keep parrys and hand fighting seperate, two different issues.

Parries are a type of hand fighting.

That doesnt seem to be the game that everyone wants though. Ranked comp fighters are against stamina increases tied strictly to output. The devs are also concerned that new and casual players (who typically have high output) will be discouraged if they are gassing in the 2nd round simply because they threw alot of strikes.

The solution is to add a sim stamina mode online for people like the folks here at OS who want more realistic stamina but there are also concerns that adding that to ranked online will split the user base and make it harder to find fights.

Yeah I wouldn't mind a sim stamina option for quick match. If ranked people don't want it, keep it out of ranked.

How is the devs being concerned about new/casual players being discouraged by sim stamina any different than being concerned with casuals being discouraged by being grappled extensively or being overwhelmed by pressure. It is a part of the sport.

So making them harder will make people more likely to use them? Sorry I'm confused because I thought the complaint we were talking about was people was ways to decrease the connect %.

Parries divert strikes whereas blocking absorbs strikes. Which would allow for less damage taken and if arm damage meant more than it does would wear out the arms less- which means more retained speed and power.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Parries are a type of hand fighting.


Yeah I wouldn't mind a sim stamina option for quick match. If ranked people don't want it, keep it out of ranked.

How is the devs being concerned about new/casual players being discouraged by sim stamina any different than being concerned with casuals being discouraged by being grappled extensively or being overwhelmed by pressure. It is a part of the sport.

Parries divert strikes whereas blocking absorbs strikes. Which would allow for less damage taken and if arm damage meant more than it does would wear out the arms less- which means more retained speed and power.

New players dont consistently run into grapplers in ranked because they are typically matched up with new or lower skilled fighters. Those fighters typically prefer to stand up and havent mastered the grappling mechanics. They've also found that many of those new fighters dont have a problem with having aggressive phone booth fights. Many play the game for fun and arent overly concerned about the things like strike output and accuracy percentage that people here are.

[The meticulous Esp]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

2% for each strike that hits the block?

I was talking about the general stamina for blocked strikes, not the long term stamina, sorry.

By the way, 2% less accuracy in all fighters would be also welcome.. imo

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Yes, 2% less accuracy in all fighters would be also welcome imo

So lets say in the average UFC 3 fight, a fighter lands 60% of their strikes. You would be satisfied with 58%? I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding you.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

So making them harder will make people more likely to use them? Sorry I'm confused because I thought the complaint we were talking about was people was ways to decrease the connect %.

That was a reply to your last point about the counter window. Parries were used as they were really easy plus large counter window. I was adding to your point. Making things harder doesnt mean they wont be used, just not as effective as ufc 2 parries.

[johnmangala]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

New players dont consistently run into grapplers in ranked because they are typically matched up with new or lower skilled fighters. Those fighters typically prefer to stand up and havent mastered the grappling mechanics. They've also found that many of those new fighters dont have a problem with having aggressive phone booth fights. Many play the game for fun and arent overly concerned about the things like strike output and accuracy percentage that people here are.

But they do run into them, they may be discouraged when they are stifled. They may be discouraged by complex controls. They may be discouraged by constantly being stunned, or what is admitted to be a high learning curve game.

They may be discouraged by the limited tutorials which hampers their enjoyment of the game since casuals and new players are less likely to seek forums to actually learn the meta.

There are sacrifices that have to be made for the greater good, there were already sacrifices made which make up for a more authentic and immersive game- which helps gain more goodwill, which by word of mouth gives the game a better public perception. There could be an arcade setting as well.

[micmuted]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I still think the solution is having blocked strikes cost the attacker more long-term stamina. This way you still have to be good enough to escape a couple of "Terminator" attacks to survive, but said attacker will quickly tire himself out allowing you to have your way with them.

This phone-booth crap going on for 5 rounds is ridiculous. If thats how you choose to fight in the game, you should either be the winner in the first round, or exhausted half-way through the second. The output is simply not realistic. And I'm not even asking for 1:1 ratio with real life output numbers, just something a little more......believable.

exactly.. after 1 round of all out spamming their stamina should be done

i make guys go literally 30/130 on their strikes and they can still go into the next rd with high stamina

[micmuted]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

That doesnt seem to be the game that everyone wants though. Ranked comp fighters are against stamina increases tied strictly to output. The devs are also concerned that new and casual players (who typically have high output) will be discouraged if they are gassing in the 2nd round simply because they threw alot of strikes.

The solution is to add a sim stamina mode online for people like the folks here at OS who want more realistic stamina but there are also concerns that adding that to ranked online will split the user base and make it harder to find fights.

and this is exactly what i’ve been saying.. ea has to/wants to make a game that caters to casuals and the sock em rock em robot spammers.

so unfortunately with ea’s mindset we’ll probably never get a ufc game that doesn’t reward ridiculous output

[micmuted]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

it’s okay to add a ton of unexplained advanced mechanics and difficult button inputs.. but it’s not okay to add a better slightly more realistic stamina system?

it’s just makes absolutely no sense. no one is saying we want everyone to be gassed after the first rd, but guys shouldnt be consistently throwing over 100 strikes per round