Situation-specific grappling and submissions

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Situation-specific grappling and submissions

Pretty much the way you can go into a guillotine when your opponent stands from bottom sprawl.

Just as an example

Your opponent shoots a TD. You time the guillotine reversal. The sub initiates, now he has the options of trying to transition in different directions to fight it, while you have to correctly assess his defense and adjust accordingly.

I’d love for the transition speeds to be essentially doubled here so locking up subs is less about denying transitions and more about correctly finishing a sequence of transitions. Tbh all of grappling should be like that. The way postering up stops the momemtum roll in FG.

Hopefully they add minor transitions as well so you can do things like fight hands, tuck the chin, step/roll to specific sides ect.

There’s so much depth to be added and for grappling the D-pad/L stick over a lot more room for button schematics.

Here’s a video detailing some of the counters(go to about 40 secs).

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Can you imagine a system where grapplings involves constant transitions minor vs major with occasional modified (muscle or special) transitions? It’d be just as fast paced and varied as the striking.

It does sound great, yeah. Your description reminded me of chain grappling, where there's a first attempt, then another, then another, if you choose to pursue them. They should drain stamina and should depend on stats as well. In a Khabib vs Conor situation, Khabib can afford to pursue many of them without fear of gassing, and should have the stat advantage to eventually pull it off. The stats should be able to really prevent 50-50 situations where it's not a realistic 50-50, perhaps make it a 60-40 in favour of stats vs skill.

As for your idea of transition based subs, not all subs are counters, what about the regular ones?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Situation-specific grappling and submissions

It does sound great, yeah. Your description reminded me of chain grappling, where there's a first attempt, then another, then another, if you choose to pursue them. They should drain stamina and should depend on stats as well. In a Khabib vs Conor situation, Khabib can afford to pursue many of them without fear of gassing, and should have the stat advantage to eventually pull it off. The stats should be able to really prevent 50-50 situations where it's not a realistic 50-50, perhaps make it a 60-40 in favour of stats vs skill.

As for your idea of transition based subs, not all subs are counters, what about the regular ones?

I cant think of a single sub that isnt set up. You should have to do minor transitions to secure the smallet set ups, wrist control, turning hips, posture control. And then you can initiate the sub with the transition.

A good example is how you can currently do the full guard momentum transition to speed up triangle attempts since it’s you rockin your hips to get your legs up.

Same idea, just more depth, animations, and scenarios.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Situation-specific grappling and submissions

I cant think of a single sub that isnt set up. You should have to do minor transitions to secure the smallet set ups, wrist control, turning hips, posture control. And then you can initiate the sub with the transition.

A good example is how you can currently do the full guard momentum transition to speed up triangle attempts since it’s you rockin your hips to get your legs up.

Same idea, just more depth, animations, and scenarios.

Yeah, sounds good. The whole idea of minor transitions sounds pretty cool. Set ups, pursuing goals, the opponent trying to anticipate those, setting traps to confuse them...brute strength too, though, Derrick Lewis style, he ain't got time for your minor transitions.

I just hope there isn't a meta where pursuing one particular thing, even if it's not a very threatening position in real life, yields the best results a huge percentage of the time. I hope a bunch of things have the potential to be effective, with the right fighter and in the right hands. Same with striking.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Situation-specific grappling and submissions

Yeah, sounds good. The whole idea of minor transitions sounds pretty cool. Set ups, pursuing goals, the opponent trying to anticipate those, setting traps to confuse them...brute strength too, though, Derrick Lewis style, he ain't got time for your minor transitions.

I just hope there isn't a meta where pursuing one particular thing, even if it's not a very threatening position in real life, yields the best results a huge percentage of the time. I hope a bunch of things have the potential to be effective, with the right fighter and in the right hands. Same with striking.

Agreed

Hopefully we get eventually get move levels for specific transitions the same way we have move levels for strikes. It’d allow each fighter to stand out in grappling.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Situation-specific grappling and submissions

Agreed

Hopefully we get eventually get move levels for specific transitions the same way we have move levels for strikes. It’d allow each fighter to stand out in grappling.

I'm not sure move levels differentiate fighters enough though. I'll say it again, Martial's animation (good, bad) suggestion is very important. Perhaps the same should be pursued for grappling in some way. In any case, I'm not convinced move levels are enough, fighters feel way too similar despite them. But I get your general point.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Situation-specific grappling and submissions

I always found EA MMAs sub system the best we’ve been given in any MMA game. This current one is the worst imo.

What I want from a sub system is...

That it’s not so heavy on hand/eye coordination (which just feels more like it’s own separate mini game and doesn’t feel immersive at all for subs).

Subs can be won or lost in couple of seconds or a minute like with EA MMA. No fixed times or attempts that the gates cause.

Stamina is tied into applying pressure or fighting out of the sub which would all be effected DURING the sub attempt in real time like EA MMA as well. You could basically fight harder either tapping the sub button or rotating the stick more which effected you’re stamina so you had to pace yourself and control the pressure you apply to the sub. A great balancing act and actually felt like a sub battle.


Those are the keys to making a great sub system for me.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Situation-specific grappling and submissions

I'm not sure move levels differentiate fighters enough though. I'll say it again, Martial's animation (good, bad) suggestion is very important. Perhaps the same should be pursued for grappling in some way. In any case, I'm not convinced move levels are enough, fighters feel way too similar despite them. But I get your general point.

Oh I definitely want different animations. But the move levels do make a big difference in terms of gameplay. Getting hit by Connor’s straight in game is a different story compared to others.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Situation-specific grappling and submissions

Do you guys the notice the different transition animations depending on move levels, in UFC 3?

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Situation-specific grappling and submissions

Do you guys the notice the different transition animations depending on move levels, in UFC 3?

I do feel it at times, some fighters do feel quicker and more nimble off the back. I mean, it's not absolutely the same, even though plenty more individuality can be called for. But I do avoid people like Diaz, Cerrone and Ortega's guards, mostly because of the green gate, I guess. They are fast too, though. On the other hand, I don't really feel as dominant with Top Game fighters: DC, Khabib, Rockhold, GSP, Usman. People don't really gas, we usually end up having the same stamina and it just doesn't feel gruelling for the recipient at all. The two stamina bars contribute to this.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Situation-specific grappling and submissions

Do you guys the notice the different transition animations depending on move levels, in UFC 3?

I don’t. I only notice an advantage or disadvantage depending on the stamina at the start of the sub. It’s the only time I really feel like I have difficulty getting out of subs with anyone.


*edit*
Read that wrong, so actually somewhat. I suppose guys like Khabib have a bit of an advantage, but it almost feels more like just having the reflexes to deny dictate too much (or having a proper TV/monitor and PS4 Pro). Some people get that denial way too immediately on multiple attempts and it feels like they have a completely different kind of advantage. But I’m not sure what Lawler’s grappling stats are, but I’ve have people use him like he has GSP level grappling. It seems to be more about the player than the fighter a lot of times.