Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

[Skynet]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

And yes, thank you CP — I'm making the distinction between EA and the devs to give the devs credit and absolve them from most of the guilt. Well if you don't want that... It's ridiculous what they base their dismissal of criticism on, i.e. not naming names, as if that completely negates everything the person said.

And I appreciate that. I've read and listened to your comments, and am glad to know that's your thoughts behind it. It is perhaps knee-jerk at this point for us, but with the limited time we do have, and the incredible amount of feedback we could potentially sift through, we start developing patterns for how to weed out the stuff that's not as worth it.

After years of doing this, that's usually a red flag, to me.

[johnmangala]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

But literally everything that happens with the game development is impacted if not outright determined by the budget and how resources are allocated.

True but they work with what's given. Every dev team has to do that. The gameplay is still on them.

Things like CAFs in ranked can be become a toggle if there is enough complaint which there seems to be. The devs respond to criticism.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

And I appreciate that. I've read and listened to your comments, and am glad to know that's your thoughts behind it. It is perhaps knee-jerk at this point for us, but with the limited time we do have, and the incredible amount of feedback we could potentially sift through, we start developing patterns for how to weed out the stuff that's not as worth it.

After years of doing this, that's usually a red flag, to me.

I can understand a thought process like that.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Hmmm, my apologies then. My intent has always been that claiming 'EA' is at fault immediately harms whatever feedback it's tied to. Should the topic come up again in the future, I'll try to be more concise about that.

For me personally, that's even more the case when someone says 'It's not you, it's EA'. If you're talking about an area outside of my work, I know it's not me. That's cool. I'm not here for personal validation (though it is nice when people are happy with my work). Maybe it's weird, but I feel much more defensive about the other people not here to defend themselves than I do about things actually directed at me. Especially when I know what's being said is inaccurate to my understanding.



I think some of this is honestly due to the fact that we're still under NDA, and even after that we as individuals are often not willing to discuss choices or teams outside our direct influence. So while I'd love to have some deeper discussions about some of the complaints right now.... I can't. That might come across as not listening, but it's more like biding my time. Both GPD and I have been very transparent and involved in previous titles post-launch.

There are also times where people don't like a certain feature or choice, and the legitimate answer is simply that yeah... it was deliberately made for an audience you don't identify with.

If we didn't listen to OSers... I wouldn't be here. GPD hasn't even worked with us for over half a year and even he's still here talking to you guys! We don't spend our free time here just so we can shut people down and break their dreams. All the feedback we see, even the stuff we don't reply to, goes into our heads and influences our later direction. Much of it comes up directly in internal conversation and meetings. Hard though it can be to believe, us being silent or even disagreeing with you doesn't mean we disregard the feedback itself.



You're right it should. Though I think much of what's transpired in this particular thread has been to help address the way we communicate itself. Which is more important in the long run than an individual complaint. It's an investment of our mutual time to make future discussions more profitable for everyone involved.

Look, I know you’re human. I respect the fact that you get more defensive about defending others than you do yourself. I’m 100% the same way. That’s a great way to be.

I can see how it is frustrating for you guys when people are on here being borderline and overtly toxic. But honestly, I think the community does a pretty good job policing ourselves in that regard. I respond to people when they are just bitching doom and gloom, or being legitimately disrespectful (and not just critical) of the devs/gamechangers, etc. I’ve defended all of you, and a lot of other people have and will continue to do the same.

From our/my (well really I can only speak for me) perspective, it’s also frustrating to see people who are acting as representatives of EA getting defensive. That shouldn’t be happening, ever. I would argue that it creates a much more tense, potentially explosive, hostile environment when people who are supposed to be here to hear us are spending more time than not dunking on people and demanding respect. Sadly, that’s not how customer service works.

If I went on Facebook after work and started “well actuallying” cunstomers who had complaints about my work I would literally get fired.

I know you guys are active here of your own free will, and it’s not like you’re getting paid to be here, but you’re still representing EA, and so I just wish you guys would err more on the side of listening rather than correcting. When we are wrong Retracted Monkey will be in here before we can even hit “submit reply” telling us how small and insignificant we all are LOL. You guys don’t really have to fall into that as much as you do. It actually contributes more to the hostility around here than ya’ll might realize.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

From our/my (well really I can only speak for me) perspective, it’s also frustrating to see people who are acting as representatives of EA getting defensive. That shouldn’t be happening, ever. I would argue that it creates a much more tense, potentially explosive, hostile environment when people who are supposed to be here to hear us are spending more time than not dunking on people and demanding respect. Sadly, that’s not how customer service works.

If I went on Facebook after work and starting “well actuallying” cunstomers who had complaints about my work I would literally get fired.

I know you guys are active here of your own free will, and it’s not like you’re getting paid to be here, but you’re still representing EA, and so I just wish you guys would err more on the side of listening rather than correcting. When we are wrong Retracted Monkey will be in here before we can even hit “submit reply” telling us how small and insignificant we all are LOL. You guys don’t really have to fall into that as much as you do. It actually contributes more to the hostility around here than ya’ll might realize.

I find this to be a double standard. While you and Kingslayer have been relatively mild, a lot of people are extremely toxic with their "feedback" and justify it as criticism as if it gives them some immunity. Even you complained about how people have asked you to tone down your critiques when people say it has a negative effect. Now you are telling the devs not to be defensive or even respond for the same reason. There have been times when devs have gone too far in their retorts but this thread is nowhere close to it.

It's also kinda weird that people are pushing the whole "Blame EA, not the devs" viewpoint when you would seemingly rather hear from the generic EA PR team than the actual devs.

That being said, debating who's the one responsible for the new monetization model is redundant because it's an omnipresent trend in AAA games. Every game with a multiplayer component has some sort of microtransaction system because it's proven to be a reliable way to increase profits. It was bound to be included at some point.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Should of been plenty of budget to work with when you scrap an entire UT mode....Not sure how that can be even a topic of discussion, and if budget is the issue, then these 'data casuals" are not buying your game....

It actually costs money to scrap a mode, believe it or not.

[HypeRNT]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

It actually costs money to scrap a mode, believe it or not.

CTRL+ALT+DELETE, easy

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

CTRL+ALT+DELETE, easy

Bet they never considered that. Chumps.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

I find this to be a double standard. While you and Kingslayer have been relatively mild, a lot of people are extremely toxic with their "feedback" and justify it as criticism as if it gives them some immunity. Even you complained about how people have asked you to tone down your critiques when people say it has a negative effect. Now you are telling the devs not to be defensive or even respond for the same reason. There have been times when devs have gone too far in their retorts but this thread is nowhere close to it.

It's also kinda weird that people are pushing the whole "Blame EA, not the devs" viewpoint when you would seemingly rather hear from the generic EA PR team than the actual devs.

That being said, debating who's the one responsible for the new monetization model is redundant because it's an omnipresent trend in AAA games. Every game with a multiplayer component has some sort of microtransaction system because it's proven to be a reliable way to increase profits. It was bound to be included at some point.

It is absolutely a double standard, and it should be. I know nothing about game development, but I would consider myself very knowledgeable when it comes to customer service. I’ve already explained my position on that in another reply that you may or may not have seen so I just defer to that.

The only other thing I’ll say is that you are completely mischaracterizing my comment you linked to in your reply. I was pointing out a contradictory message that people are receiving when they complain, not whatever you think it is I was doing. That post is completely consistent with what I’ve said here, as well.

The devs can mute or ignore people who are routinely legit disrespectful. Gifting the positive reinforcement by giving them attention the more negative their post is is contradictory to the goal they are trying to achieve, and they shouldn’t be doing it anyway.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

It is absolutely a double standard, and it should be. I know nothing about game development, but I would consider myself very knowledgeable when it comes to customer service. I’ve already explained my position on that in another reply that you may or may not have seen so I just defer to that.

The only other thing I’ll say is that you are completely mischaracterizing my comment you linked to in your reply. I was pointing out a contradictory message that people are receiving when they complain, not whatever you think it is I was doing. That post is completely consistent with what I’ve said here, as well.

The devs can mute or ignore people who are routinely legit disrespectful. Gifting the positive reinforcement by giving them attention the more negative their post is is contradictory to the goal they are trying to achieve, and they shouldn’t be doing it anyway.

But you also said "Imagine if all the energy spent criticizing tone and ego posturing were spent actually trying to find a way to actually hear what people are saying and try to implement what you can into the game.". Again, I think it's a double standard to tell the devs not to be defensive but then preach understanding what the users are complaining about.

Now you may be fine with this because of the whole customer service double standard but I disagree with that double standard. It's not about protecting and nursing the poor devs but holding the community to a higher standard. A lot of the people who provide the toxic "feedback" don't treat other users much better.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

I can see how it is frustrating for you guys when people are on here being borderline and overtly toxic. But honestly, I think the community does a pretty good job policing ourselves in that regard.

This is just flat out wrong. Couldn't be any more wrong. It's better than it was 2-3 years ago but I have to mod this section, literally, more than any other section on this site. There are some awesome members that post here, don't get me wrong, but excluding those members..... this section has some of the most stubborn and entitled people I've ever come across on this site.

If the community did even a decent job at policing itself, you wouldn't see myself and kehlis as much.

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[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

This is just flat out wrong. Couldn't be any more wrong. It's better than it was 2-3 years ago but I have to mod this section, literally, more than any other section on this site. There are some awesome members that post here, don't get me wrong, but excluding those members..... this section has some of the most stubborn and entitled people I've ever come across on this site.

If the community did even a decent job at policing itself, you wouldn't see myself and kehlis as much.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

It’s literally the same tiny handful of people making tons of toxic threads and posts, getting banned, and then making alts and trying to do the same thing before they get banned again.

I read pretty much every post made on here and that just hasn’t been my impression at all. You can literally tell by the way someone is writing that they are the same person.

You wanna see a toxic community then check out the EA forums or the EASportsUFC subreddit.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

It’s literally the same tiny handful of people making tons of toxic threads and posts, getting banned, and then making alts and trying to do the same thing before they get banned again.



I read pretty much every post made on here and that just hasn’t been my impression at all. You can literally tell by the way someone is writing that they are the same person.



You wanna see a toxic community then check out the EA forums or the EASportsUFC subreddit.

Agree to disagree.

I know.... KNOW..... that if retracted monkey or (before a week or so ago) aholbert get into a back and forth with someone, that individual is gonna cross a personal line as opposed to sticking with the topic being discussed. Happens every damn time. And then I get PMs asking why those two haven't been banned and I repeat the same **** every time... "They know how to argue and don't break TOS". (Now, RM tips around it at times, but not enough to be banned.)

Even if I agreed with you as far as it's the same guys getting banned and making new accounts, they're still posting more and creating more threads than the sensible posters (I'm including you in the sensible category). And then there's just the dumb ****..... like the poll of pre-ordering UFC or calling it trash. Like, wtf, man? Even just petty **** like that.

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[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Agree to disagree.

I know.... KNOW..... that if retracted monkey or (before a week or so ago) aholbert get into a back and forth with someone, that individual is gonna cross a personal line as opposed to sticking with the topic being discussed. Happens every damn time. And then I get PMs asking why those two haven't been banned and I repeat the same **** every time... "They know how to argue and don't break TOS". (Now, RM tips around it at times, but not enough to be banned.)

Even if I agreed with you as far as it's the same guys getting banned and making new accounts, they're still posting more and creating more threads than the sensible posters (I'm including you in the sensible category). And then there's just the dumb ****..... like the poll of pre-ordering UFC or calling it trash. Like, wtf, man? Even just petty **** like that.

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Ya’ll need another mod? lol jk ...sorta

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Ya’ll need another mod? lol jk ...sorta

Talk to Steve_OS about that.....


I'm just the assistant to the assistant regional manager.

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