Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

[johnmangala]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

I think skynet been pretty fair. He said our grievances being directed at ea are misplaced. I dont disagree. I think the criticism should be placed at the devs but more reasonably. Lot of the complaints are emotional and dont get to the root of the issue besides a few users.

[Skynet]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

I'm sorry but those arguments are unconvincing to me.

And honestly, that may simply be the case for us both. I'm okay with that. No two people have to see eye to eye.

If we're both informed of each other's opinion and views, and simply don't agree. That's fine. Thanks for discussing

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

I never said you were delusional.

Remember, you were commenting on a conversation that was already taking place between other people. The person I was responding to, Skynet, said that Kingslayer was making up a scenario in his head that wasn’t occurring, in effect saying he was being delusional.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

He said our grievances being directed at ea are misplaced. I dont disagree. I think the criticism should be placed at the devs but more reasonably.

Lot of the complaints are emotional and dont get to the root of the issue besides a few users.

EA project managers (or whatever you want to call them) are absolutely making decision about the game that the devs aren’t responsible for and have no control over. It makes no sense to criticize the devs for those decisions. It makes even less sense for devs to get offended when we criticize “EA” as a way of excluding them from the criticism. It’s inarticulate, sure, which I guess is some sort of mortal sin around here.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

And honestly, that may simply be the case for us both. I'm okay with that. No two people have to see eye to eye.

If we're both informed of each other's opinion and views, and simply don't agree. That's fine. Thanks for discussing

I’m not trying to be petty, but as far as incentives go, wouldn’t it stand to reason that you should be more concerned with understanding his argument than he should be with understanding yours? He is a potential sale of the game, what does he gain from you convincing him that he is wrong?

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

I’ve never seen a forum where people are expected to asskiss so much. The devs are benefitting from having direct access to the fan base. Praise is great and makes everyone feel good. Criticism is ultimately what contributes to the process of improvement. I this supposed to be a place to celebrate the game and where we are only allowed to criticize certain things? You guys make certain opinions here seem EXTREMELY unwanted, and then act surprised when we get frustrated. And then when you get back into a corner where it seems they you haven’t really been consistent in your arguments, the “we just want to make a great game” tactic comes out.

Wait a minute, now..... no one is asking or has ever asked or even hinted at kissing anyone's *** on here. Just be respectful is what it comes down to.

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[johnmangala]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

EA project managers (or whatever you want to call them) are absolutely making decision about the game that the devs aren’t responsible for and have no control over. It makes no sense to criticize the devs for those decisions. It makes even less sense for devs to get offended when we criticize “EA” as a way of excluding them from the criticism. It’s inarticulate, sure, which I guess is some sort of mortal sin around here.

Sure for budget and things. But for gameplay the devs are responsible.

[HypeRNT]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

@skynet

bro madden is literally made for 100% short term growth.... Its released on a yearly cycle.... what long term growth can u have from game to game... everything resets... you cant transfer your MUT team over... for obv reasons.

Its why you needed an entire "franchise movement" to even garner some attention to it after all these years....

Those games are made to sell quick, have tons of micro transactions, and then move on to the next re skin next year. I would know, i spend THOUSANDS on it every year.... just like i did in ufc 2 UT mode....

I think there are too many "hardcore this and casual that" being thrown around, especially in this community, i dont think its a casual/hardcore thing to go from EA UFC 2 UT mode and into EA UFC 3 UT mode that magically included roster caf skins.... no one asked for that, and it clearly showed that it was disliked because you guys removed the mode pretty much blaming the players for not playing it.....

Same thing this year, CAF's added to ranked mode, is that a hardcore/casual thing really? I dont feel like that is based on any data.... How would you even get this data? How do you know who is casual and who is hardcore and who is playing ranked/caf.....Its these type of changes that anger the community in general, both hardcore and casuals.

Its the most divisive community ive seen in all the EA games right now, lot of "hardcore/casual" terms being used and even pushed as the reasoning behind certain changes which really does not help to have a positive atmosphere.... If you are going to tell me my "beloved" feature is gone because of a casual, i wont have nice attitude towards those people, same the other way, so it just creates a lot of negativity.

Im tired of hearing "data this and casuals that", just want good decisions being made for the game instead of some phantom data that seems to constantly contradict itself.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

@skynet

bro madden is literally made for 100% short term growth.... Its released on a yearly cycle.... what long term growth can u have from game to game... everything resets... you cant transfer your MUT team over... for obv reasons.

Its why you needed an entire "franchise movement" to even garner some attention to it after all these years....

Those games are made to sell quick, have tons of micro transactions, and then move on to the next re skin next year. I would know, i spend THOUSANDS on it every year.... just like i did in ufc 2 UT mode....

I think there are too many "hardcore this and casual that" being thrown around, especially in this community, i dont think its a casual/hardcore thing to go from EA UFC 2 UT mode and into EA UFC 3 UT mode that magically included roster caf skins.... no one asked for that, and it clearly showed that it was disliked because you guys removed the mode pretty much blaming the players for not playing it.....

Same thing this year, CAF's added to ranked mode, is that a hardcore/casual thing really? I dont feel like that is based on any data.... How would you even get this data? How do you know who is casual and who is hardcore and who is playing ranked/caf.....Its these type of changes that anger the community in general, both hardcore and casuals.

Its the most divisive community ive seen in all the EA games right now, lot of "hardcore/casual" terms being used and even pushed as the reasoning behind certain changes which really does not help to have a positive atmosphere.... If you are going to tell me my "beloved" feature is gone because of a casual, i wont have nice attitude towards those people, same the other way, so it just creates a lot of negativity.

Im tired of hearing "data this and casuals that", just want good decisions being made for the game instead of some phantom data that seems to constantly contradict itself.

most of this isn't exclusive to EA UFC..... go check out the Madden section.....

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[Skynet]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

With all due respect you’re making a completely different argument at this point than your post that was addressed by McGowan and myself.

Hmmm, my apologies then. My intent has always been that claiming 'EA' is at fault immediately harms whatever feedback it's tied to. Should the topic come up again in the future, I'll try to be more concise about that.

For me personally, that's even more the case when someone says 'It's not you, it's EA'. If you're talking about an area outside of my work, I know it's not me. That's cool. I'm not here for personal validation (though it is nice when people are happy with my work). Maybe it's weird, but I feel much more defensive about the other people not here to defend themselves than I do about things actually directed at me. Especially when I know what's being said is inaccurate to my understanding.

Regardless, when a well-reasoned, kindly worded critique is made the response that it is met with is often “You’re not the target group, EA knows you’ll buy the game anyway so they aren’t listening”.

If the critique isn’t as kindly worded, the response is “EA isn’t going to listen to you if you are being negative or just callling them out”. I though they weren’t listening to us anyway? I though they didn’t prioritize the things OS cares about? I thought they had no incentive to cater to our needs because we are too small a percentage of the playerbase and we buy the game regardless? Which is it?

I think some of this is honestly due to the fact that we're still under NDA, and even after that we as individuals are often not willing to discuss choices or teams outside our direct influence. So while I'd love to have some deeper discussions about some of the complaints right now.... I can't. That might come across as not listening, but it's more like biding my time. Both GPD and I have been very transparent and involved in previous titles post-launch.

There are also times where people don't like a certain feature or choice, and the legitimate answer is simply that yeah... it was deliberately made for an audience you don't identify with.

If we didn't listen to OSers... I wouldn't be here. GPD hasn't even worked with us for over half a year and even he's still here talking to you guys! We don't spend our free time here just so we can shut people down and break their dreams. All the feedback we see, even the stuff we don't reply to, goes into our heads and influences our later direction. Much of it comes up directly in internal conversation and meetings. Hard though it can be to believe, us being silent or even disagreeing with you doesn't mean we disregard the feedback itself.

This should be a place to discuss the game and debate the merits of different opinions about the direction of the game and changes that could (hopefully) be made to improve the experience. Imagine if all the energy spent criticizing tone and ego posturing were spent actually trying to find a way to actually hear what people are saying and try to implement what you can into the game. I’m sure that happening, but most of these responses that I see people getting to their posts literally serves NO PURPOSE towards making the game better.

You're right it should. Though I think much of what's transpired in this particular thread has been to help address the way we communicate itself. Which is more important in the long run than an individual complaint. It's an investment of our mutual time to make future discussions more profitable for everyone involved.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Counter Punch gets it. All of it.

@Skynet

I won't address it all one by one. The thing is this is the 4th game in the series, sixth year running. There is nothing that remotely addresses an in-depth offline experience. Wrong (read shallow) decisions were made for UFC 3's Career, I'm sure that also cost a lot, as you said. I registered here before UFC 3 and was told there's not enough of a budget for everything. I understood and tried to suggest ideas based on that. And then, after 2 years of giving feedback, the already scarce budget is spent on what I consider cash-grabbing shallowness. Again. Am I supposed to applaud this? As for the budget and how difficult it is to acquire specialists... the former is someone's choice, as for the latter — it may sound lazy but I'll say when there's a will there's a way. 6 years, 4 games, remember? I see a lack of desire, not a lack of anything else.

And yes, thank you CP — I'm making the distinction between EA and the devs to give the devs credit and absolve them from most of the guilt. Well if you don't want that... It's ridiculous what they base their dismissal of criticism on, i.e. not naming names, as if that completely negates everything the person said.

[HypeRNT]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

most of this isn't exclusive to EA UFC..... go check out the Madden section.....

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Im there every day... what you mean go check it out.... Most of it is about MUT cards, but regardless those cards last x amount of months before next game comes out....These cards are worth $100s of dollars per card...and it all is worthless in a year/few months....How can anyone say games like that are being built for "long term player base" ......

Madden Esports literally just had a champion crowned that had 0 WR's, punter as QB and did not throw the ball one time.... its not a simulation game.... its not even balanced....the game is a mess and has been for a long time now....None of their decisions make any sense at all, every year they remove some features, and then add those features the following year calling them "new features" .....

Its why the public is starting to revolt, because the game's in general are getting worse and less quality, made with more bugs, less detail, while dealing with a gigantic consumer base, more money, and more ways to reach your customers.... that is just a fundamental issue....How else could a game 10+ years old compete with current EA UFC games....what budget did those guys have 10 years ago? What size is their dev team? How could those games even be close in comparison....Its just 1 example of what is going on in general when it comes to developing games, its been on a steady decline in pretty much all aspects.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Sure for budget and things. But for gameplay the devs are responsible.

But literally everything that happens with the game development is impacted if not outright determined by the budget and how resources are allocated.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Im there every day... what you mean go check it out.... Most of it is about MUT cards, but regardless those cards last x amount of months before next game comes out....These cards are worth $100s of dollars per card...and it all is worthless in a year/few months....How can anyone say games like that are being built for "long term player base" ......



Madden Esports literally just had a champion crowned that had 0 WR's, punter as QB and did not throw the ball one time.... its not a simulation game.... its not even balanced....the game is a mess and has been for a long time now....None of their decisions make any sense at all, every year they remove some features, and then add those features the following year calling them "new features" .....



Its why the public is starting to revolt, because the game's in general are getting worse and less quality, made with more bugs, less detail, while dealing with a gigantic consumer base, more money, and more ways to reach your customers.... that is just a fundamental issue....How else could a game 10+ years old compete with current EA UFC games....what budget did those guys have 10 years ago? What size is their dev team? How could those games even be close in comparison....Its just 1 example of what is going on in general when it comes to developing games, its been on a steady decline in pretty much all aspects.

My bad, you got it.

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[HypeRNT]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

But literally everything that happens with the game development is impacted if not outright determined by the budget and how resources are allocated.

Should of been plenty of budget to work with when you scrap an entire UT mode....Not sure how that can be even a topic of discussion, and if budget is the issue, then these 'data casuals" are not buying your game....