Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Thats not completely true. The dumbed down grappling is as simple as it gets. Its basically a guessing game and anyone who knows the bare minimum about MMA will be able to pick up the grappling.

Striking is also pretty simple. To do the more powerful moves, you need to know the button combinations but I could hand the controller to to my 6 yr old son right now and he would be able to throw basic strikes.

Where your argument is strongest is with subs and the clinch. I dont know how any of those changes were aimed at casuals but at times I've questioned EA's consistency when it comes to a stated goal and their execution towards that goal.

Someone who is experience on the ground and can use fakes will wreck any “casual” player on the ground 100% of the time. It is not “pick up and play” nor is it anything close to that, anymore that literally any game that has controls is pick up and play.

The same with striking. Sure anyone can hit buttons. People being able to literally press buttons doesn’t speak at all to how simple or complicated a system is.

Based on that logic the game could be geared towards die hards and casuals wouldn’t care because they’d still be able to “play” the game in the shallowest sense of the term.

As it stands now, anyone who doesn’t spend several hours getting comfortable with the control system and gameplay mechanics is not going to have any SUCCESS at the game, so the argument that the gameplay is somehow actually being geared towards casuals just falls apart in my eyes.

If UFC 3 is any indication gameplay developments seem to be gear at least 90% towards competitive players.

[ZHunter1990]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Someone who is experience on the ground and can use fakes will wreck any “casual” player on the ground 100% of the time. It is not “pick up and play” nor is it anything close to that, anymore that literally any game that has controls is pick up and play.

The same with striking. Sure anyone can hit buttons. People being able to literally press buttons doesn’t speak at all to how simple or complicated a system is.

Based on that logic the game could be geared towards die hards and casuals wouldn’t care because they’d still be able to “play” the game in the shallowest sense of the term.

As it stands now, anyone who doesn’t spend several hours getting comfortable with the control system and gameplay mechanics is not going to have any SUCCESS at the game, so the argument that the gameplay is somehow actually being geared towards casuals just falls apart in my eyes.

If UFC 3 is any indication gameplay developments seem to be gear at least 90% towards competitive players.

While yes, a good player using regular controls and fakes will wreck a casual player. The barrier to entry will be much lower for the casual with the new grappling. They aren't required to know what is available from each position, or what the best move is. The game does that for them as they press one of the 3 options. Getup, GnP, Submit...they keep transitioning towards any of those options, if they don't get denied, they get to their end result..

Its not nearly as confusing or overwhelming as the Legacy controls for casuals. So regardless of if they get wrecked by a good players, the new system at least lowers the barrier of entry to something that is extremely easy to understand. So I'd say the new grappling controls make it very much a "pick up and play" type deal.

[aholbert32]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

A casual player doesn’t care if he gets “wrecked” on the ground at first. This is the only game where people seem to focus on that.

No one who plays Madden or 2k for the first time expects to be able to go online and compete with the top players or hardcore players. They expect to get destroyed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

A casual player doesn’t care if he gets “wrecked” on the ground at first. This is the only game where people seem to focus on that.

No one who plays Madden or 2k for the first time expects to be able to go online and compete with the top players or hardcore players. They expect to get destroyed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I agree, but this is the exact opposite of the argument that gets made anytime someone asks for more realism when it comes to damage and stamina. I just can’t seem to keep up with the selective application of this argument.

[aholbert32]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

I agree, but this is the exact opposite of the argument that gets made anytime someone asks for more realism when it comes to damage and stamina. I just can’t seem to keep up with the selective application of this argument.

I don’t recall ever making that argument the other way. If anything, I’ve been a big fan of going the sim/arcade approach that so many other gamers (including Madden) do.

Also there are many “hardcore” comp players who don’t want the damage and stamina changes OSers want.


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[tomitomitomi]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

The way only a beginner beats an experienced player in any game is if the game is determined by luck.

I'm against increased stamina/damage for different reasons but I'm pretty sure the usual argument has been that casual players would not find it enjoyable if they gassed themselves in half a round purely by throwing too many strikes. It's not about making casuals competitive but making the game fun for them.

[ryangil23]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Casuals would probably like sim damage as it would give them a better chance of landing a lucky shot and winning. Casuals seem to like more randomness whether it’s COD maps with a million different windows you can be shot from or getting lucky bounces in fifa etc. They’d love more surprise knockouts.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

The way only a beginner beats an experienced player in any game is if the game is determined by luck.

I'm against increased stamina/damage for different reasons but I'm pretty sure the usual argument has been that casual players would not find it enjoyable if they gassed themselves in half a round purely by throwing too many strikes. It's not about making casuals competitive but making the game fun for them.

It always goes from one extreme to to other. You either can throw 130 strikes per round or a you’ll gas yourself halfway through the first round. Is there no middle ground? You’re making a silly argument regardless, because if damage AND stamina were realistic, then someone playing in a way that would gas them that quickly would result in someone being knocked out before they even had time to gas 99% of the time.

Wouldn’t it stand to reason that casuals would want more knockouts? Just like casual nascar fans watch for the crashes? Isn’t that the reason why we don’t have TKOs on the ground and fighters go out cold? Because that’s what casuals wanted, right?

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

While yes, a good player using regular controls and fakes will wreck a casual player. The barrier to entry will be much lower for the casual with the new grappling. They aren't required to know what is available from each position, or what the best move is. The game does that for them as they press one of the 3 options. Getup, GnP, Submit...they keep transitioning towards any of those options, if they don't get denied, they get to their end result..

Its not nearly as confusing or overwhelming as the Legacy controls for casuals. So regardless of if they get wrecked by a good players, the new system at least lowers the barrier of entry to something that is extremely easy to understand. So I'd say the new grappling controls make it very much a "pick up and play" type deal.

Ok if the goal is to appeal to casuals then explain how the new clinch mechanics are in line with that goal? Most of the people on here who are far from casuals couldn’t figure it out. It’s way more complex than the old system.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Casuals would probably like sim damage as it would give them a better chance of landing a lucky shot and winning. Casuals seem to like more randomness whether it’s COD maps with a million different windows you can be shot from or getting lucky bounces in fifa etc. They’d love more surprise knockouts.

It has nothing to do with randomness. There is no RNG in UFC 3 and there wouldn’t need to be to increase Knockouts.

[ryangil23]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

It has nothing to do with randomness. There is no RNG in UFC 3 and there wouldn’t need to be to increase Knockouts.

I just meant randomness in the sense of flash KOs being more common if damage was sim. Gives casuals a better chance of landing a Hail Mary flying knee or something and knocking the other player out.

[Good Grappler]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Ok but in all fairness there is nothing about the mechanics for striking, clinch, or ground that are even remotely conducive to that type of player. There is a tremendous amount of depth to the controls and mechanics so I think that’s where people get confused with this whole “casuals” narrative. I can’t explain it. Can you?

Exactly. It makes no sense.

“All these new aspects of the game are intended to cater to the casual players - to make the most money. EA is a business afterall”

*Proceeds to make the most complicated wrestling system ever created in an MMA videogame, an extremely limited CAF creation mode, and do what no casual ever asked for: add CAFs to ranked.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

A casual player doesn’t care if he gets “wrecked” on the ground at first. This is the only game where people seem to focus on that.

No one who plays Madden or 2k for the first time expects to be able to go online and compete with the top players or hardcore players. They expect to get destroyed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

People can enjoy losing. But no one enjoys getting completely dominated over and over.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

It always goes from one extreme to to other. You either can throw 130 strikes per round or a you’ll gas yourself halfway through the first round. Is there no middle ground? You’re making a silly argument regardless, because if damage AND stamina were realistic, then someone playing in a way that would gas them that quickly would result in someone being knocked out before they even had time to gas 99% of the time.

Wouldn’t it stand to reason that casuals would want more knockouts? Just like casual nascar fans watch for the crashes? Isn’t that the reason why we don’t have TKOs on the ground and fighters go out cold? Because that’s what casuals wanted, right?

Like I said, I'm against that change for different reasons so obviously I don't believe in it myself. That being said, the game doesn't have a lack of first round KOs and I'd imagine their mythical data™ would reveal that most fights end in the first round. Being gassed is not a fun mechanic which is why I imagine they're careful with that. Obviously good players can sap your stamina with how dodges drain more stamina which is actually a mechanic intended for skillful play and has no basis in realism.

I'm also baffled by you guys' confusion regarding the clinch. UFC 3's clinch was the least accessible part for a myriad of reasons. Firstly, the clinch itself was very unrewarding because you had to not only complete sometimes numerous transitions but also somehow contain Muay Thai clinch for enough time to land strikes. This requires both understanding of grappling positions and game mechanics. Clinch denies is something that only a fraction of the ranked player base, let alone everyone else, can do. Muay Thai clinch was the only position with noticeable power strikes which I assume appeals to casuals more than holding Double Underhooks all day.

Defensively, clinch was a very patient position where it was easy to deny escapes without building up GA and I'd imagine that a lot of the casual players just spam escape and get denied constantly, similar to how they spam getups on the ground. Furthermore, clinch had inconsistent controls as in some positions head strikes were blocked by body block (knees in Thai Clinch) which isn't intuitive whatsoever. This means that newbies could easily get stuck in clinch and suddenly get hurt by strikes they thought they blocked.

UFC 4? You initiate the clinch and you can immediately throw damaging strikes. That's not possible in UFC 3 unless you go for straight Thai clinch which had low success rate. Defensively you do something as simple as hold back and you can escape in seconds. Obviously good players can counter that but they're not facing good players and the point is that the base skill requirement for doing damage and escaping clinch are low which makes it more accessible. There's one scenario where clinch becomes inaccessible and that's when you are clinched against the fence as in that situation escaping isn't as obvious, but even then you can still punch the opponent and actually rock them so it's still an improvement.

[aholbert32]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

People can enjoy losing. But no one enjoys getting completely dominated over and over.

Most people dont keep playing Ranked over and over and over again. They recognize the first few times that they have a skill deficit and either they play quick match or offline to help them pick up skills to win.

I'll use me as an example....I AM NOT GOOD AT THIS GAME. I dont study movesets. I'm winging it half the time when I strike. I probably learned how to really grapple like 2 yrs ago. I dont know grappling fakes and how to use them. I dont know what the current "meta" is.

Half the time I can get wins on the first few levels of ranked but around level 4-5, I start getting stomped. That doesnt "frustrate" me. I recognize my skill ceiling and I play for fun....which is what most people do.

OSers have to stop acting like most of the people who play this game are single focused people who want to win at all cost. Some just want to pick up a MMA game and have some fun.