Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

[aholbert32]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Ok if the goal is to appeal to casuals then explain how the new clinch mechanics are in line with that goal? Most of the people on here who are far from casuals couldn’t figure it out. It’s way more complex than the old system.

A couple of things:

- Lets stop doubting what the goal is. There is no doubt. EA set up a meeting to tell us what the goal is. We've had multiple devs tell us what the goal is. Period.

- Now if the question is why are they creating systems that dont seem to line up with the goal, EA has always seemed to believe that they dont have to make a clear choice. They have always thought they they can do enough to keep hardcore fans like you while primarily appealing to people who arent pretty much automatic repeat buyers.

- I dont know if you truly understand that the argument you are making isnt helping your goal. There are members of the dev team who clearly want to go down the all casual path. Pointing out these inconsistencies isnt likely to lead down a path where you get the game you want. It will more likely take you down the path of EA going the opposite direction.

The only reason that things like the complicated striking control scheme, the clinch mechanic and legacy grappling are still in the game is because EA doesnt want to COMPLETELY abandon hardcore fans.

[LarsP]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

A couple of things:

- Lets stop doubting what the goal is. There is no doubt. EA set up a meeting to tell us what the goal is. We've had multiple devs tell us what the goal is. Period.

- Now if the question is why are they creating systems that dont seem to line up with the goal, EA has always seemed to believe that they dont have to make a clear choice. They have always thought they they can do enough to keep hardcore fans like you while primarily appealing to people who arent pretty much automatic repeat buyers.

- I dont know if you truly understand that the argument you are making isnt helping your goal. There are members of the dev team who clearly want to go down the all casual path. Pointing out these inconsistencies isnt likely to lead down a path where you get the game you want. It will more likely take you down the path of EA going the opposite direction.

The only reason that things like the complicated striking control scheme, the clinch mechanic and legacy grappling are still in the game is because EA doesnt want to COMPLETELY abandon hardcore fans.

So far we know the goal is 'to reach a broader audience', unless i've missed something. Are you able to elaborate more on this 'broader audience'? Because to me, it's seems like it's purely aimed at kids, 12-16 years.

I just have a hard time imagining that this 'broader audience' is really interested in a subpar MMA - Fortnite crossover.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

A couple of things:

- Lets stop doubting what the goal is. There is no doubt. EA set up a meeting to tell us what the goal is. We've had multiple devs tell us what the goal is. Period.

- Now if the question is why are they creating systems that dont seem to line up with the goal, EA has always seemed to believe that they dont have to make a clear choice. They have always thought they they can do enough to keep hardcore fans like you while primarily appealing to people who arent pretty much automatic repeat buyers.

- I dont know if you truly understand that the argument you are making isnt helping your goal. There are members of the dev team who clearly want to go down the all casual path. Pointing out these inconsistencies isnt likely to lead down a path where you get the game you want. It will more likely take you down the path of EA going the opposite direction.

The only reason that things like the complicated striking control scheme, the clinch mechanic and legacy grappling are still in the game is because EA doesnt want to COMPLETELY abandon hardcore fans.

This right here should make it clear to everyone what the situation is.

Career and Universe, stamina, damage, styles, transition based submissions, etc., etc. — none of that matters to them, it won't make it in. Aholbert said it, they'd go all out casual if they could, and I'd argue it's already about 75% casual oriented (talking the whole game here, not just core gameplay), so there's not much room left before it's "all out". They do not care about the hardcores at. all.

The complaints on here do not matter. EA are free to cater to the casuals as much as they like because they consider the hardcore crowd firmly in their pocket, as they pre-order instantaneously and buy at full price. EA does not care about making the ultimate UFC experience, or the best game ever, or anything such. They care about their money so the only thing that could affect EA is you not buying the game.. Nothing else. No amount of complaining has any sort of chance of changing that if you end up getting the game anyway.

[aholbert32]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

So far we know the goal is 'to reach a broader audience', unless i've missed something. Are you able to elaborate more on this 'broader audience'? Because to me, it's seems like it's purely aimed at kids, 12-16 years.

I just have a hard time imagining that this 'broader audience' is really interested in a subpar MMA - Fortnite crossover.

I'll try to dance around it without giving out specific info that is subject to NDA.

"Broader audience" means people who like MMA but it isnt their first, second or even third favorite sport.

Its people who have enjoyed watching MMA but have no idea what a omaplata is or half guard.

Its people who have no idea who Geoff Neal or Niko Price or Song Yadong are.

I have no idea if this path will work. If the game sells, EA got what it wanted and will likely continue down the path its been going.

If it doesnt, EA likely makes some changes (maybe staff changes....maybe a change in the direction of the game).

All I know is the "data" tells them this is the most profitable direction to go in.

[LarsP]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

I'll try to dance around it without giving out specific info that is subject to NDA.

"Broader audience" means people who like MMA but it isnt their first, second or even third favorite sport.

Its people who have enjoyed watching MMA but have no idea what a omaplata is or half guard.

Its people who have no idea who Geoff Neal or Niko Price or Song Yadong are.

I have no idea if this path will work. If the game sells, EA got what it wanted and will likely continue down the path its been going.

If it doesnt, EA likely makes some changes (maybe staff changes....maybe a change in the direction of the game).

All I know is the "data" tells them this is the most profitable direction to go in.

Thank you for expanding on this, when you write it out like that, it doesn't seem all bad.

BUT, I don't see how this strokes with the fact they're going full fantasy mode with 1000's of attributes and emotes. People who are into that kind of thing are much more likely to buy something like MK or StreetFighter, right?

[aholbert32]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Let me give one more example:

The NHL series has been getting killed for almost a decade because they made the "casual" pivot years ago. Hardcore fans are constantly frustrated by this decision. Just go to the NHL forum and see statement after statement about how the game sucks.

Now, hockey is my 5th or 6th favorite sport. Yet, I have purchased NHL every year for the last few years. Why? One, because there are control schemes that are designed for casual players like me. Two, I dont know enough about the sport to obsess over how the Winnipeg Jets dont run the same offense that they do in real life or how Conor McDavid is OP.

I just play and have fun. ****, my 6 yr old loves the game because he can switch to one button control and just have a ball.

Now is that great for hardcore NHL fans....**** no!. But the way EA looks at it is those fans will buy the game anyway while if they stopped targeting players like me, I probably wouldn't buy the game.

[aholbert32]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Thank you for expanding on this, when you write it out like that, it doesn't seem all bad.

BUT, I don't see how this strokes with the fact they're going full fantasy mode with 1000's of attributes and emotes. People who are into that kind of thing are much more likely to buy something like MK or StreetFighter, right?

Not necessarily.

One, I ****ING HATE THE EMOTES. I HATE THEM SO MUCH. I pushed immediately for the ability to skip them offline.

With that said, the emotes are all based in real life. They are really no different than taunts and some are moves that are specific to certain fighters.

Is it the sort of thing that will generate a ton of sales? Nah but it is consistent with the goal of making the game seem "fun". Same with all CAF stuff.

[LarsP]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

Let me give one more example:

The NHL series has been getting killed for almost a decade because they made the "casual" pivot years ago. Hardcore fans are constantly frustrated by this decision. Just go to the NHL forum and see statement after statement about how the game sucks.

Now, hockey is my 5th or 6th favorite sport. Yet, I have purchased NHL every year for the last few years. Why? One, because there are control schemes that are designed for casual players like me. Two, I dont know enough about the sport to obsess over how the Winnipeg Jets dont run the same offense that they do in real life or how Conor McDavid is OP.

I just play and have fun. ****, my 6 yr old loves the game because he can switch to one button control and just have a ball.

Now is that great for hardcore NHL fans....**** no!. But the way EA looks at it is those fans will buy the game anyway while if they stopped targeting players like me, I probably wouldn't buy the game.

That's a good example. But UFC 4 has to be the first EA Sports game that also throws visual realism out of the window, right? Or have these cosmetic items been in other titles before?

[aholbert32]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

That's a good example. But UFC 4 has to be the first EA Sports game that also throws visual realism out of the window, right? Or have these cosmetic items been in other titles before?

Not...at...all. NBA2k has a ton of cosmetic items and make millions off of their cosmetic items.

You could go online and play people on NBA court....with full clown face paint.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

I don't mean to be some double of yours, aholbert, I just wanted to say this here.

Aholbert has tried to explain this many times and as far as I can see — to no avail. We're all passionate about the game here. We've all spent a pretty good amount of time posting suggestion after suggestion, complaint after complaint, hoping our suggestion is good enough to be recognised by the devs and implemented and that we'll get the game we wanted and that the complaint will somehow affect the people in charge who are reading it. I'm saying this as someone who's done if for over two years now.

Unfortunately, for EA you're not the person with the bright and realistic ideas who "may be onto something here". No, it's actually very simple, it's very binary — you either buy the game or you don't. You're a 0 or a 1. I'd say there's no middle ground but I guess you can get it at half price and be a 0,5...which still serves EA in some way. Devs posting on here and being very approachable puts you under an illusion — EA, the company they work for, is not your friend.

I know sometimes the hardest thing to do is to do nothing, but I've come to realise that if you so passionately want the game to change, you'll have to do just that — nothing at all. You feel like you're packing a serious punch by posting here again and again? The hardest punch you can hope to land is to not buy the game at all. That, and hoping that the rest of the disgruntled fans like you do the same. But if you go and buy it... you've lost. If you do, your opinion is irrelevant to those to whom it matters most. And again, as far as they are concerned, there are two opinions — buy and not buy.

Think about that. You want to send a message? Use a different device.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

A couple of things:

- Lets stop doubting what the goal is. There is no doubt. EA set up a meeting to tell us what the goal is. We've had multiple devs tell us what the goal is. Period.

- Now if the question is why are they creating systems that dont seem to line up with the goal, EA has always seemed to believe that they dont have to make a clear choice. They have always thought they they can do enough to keep hardcore fans like you while primarily appealing to people who arent pretty much automatic repeat buyers.

- I dont know if you truly understand that the argument you are making isnt helping your goal. There are members of the dev team who clearly want to go down the all casual path. Pointing out these inconsistencies isnt likely to lead down a path where you get the game you want. It will more likely take you down the path of EA going the opposite direction.

The only reason that things like the complicated striking control scheme, the clinch mechanic and legacy grappling are still in the game is because EA doesnt want to COMPLETELY abandon hardcore fans.

I don’t doubt what the goal is. Like you said I’m curious as to why the stated goal often doesn’t line up with what happens, and often times seems diametrically opposed to it. You seem to have explained that they are trying to do just enough to keep us “hardcores” happy, while at the same time appealing to a broader audience and brining in new buyers. I get it. Sales/profit growth is the only thing that a large corporation like EA cares about. In fact you could make the argument that they have a legal obligation to prioritize short term profits for their investors.

My goal at this point is to provide any feedback that I can to accelerate the “casualization” of the game in order to help EA achieve its goal, until they have saturated the causal MMA market and have to appeal to gamers like me who have stopped buying the game.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

I don’t doubt what the goal is. Like you said I’m curious as to why the stated goal often doesn’t line up with what happens, and often times seems diametrically opposed to it. You seem to have explained that they are trying to do just enough to keep us “hardcores” happy, while at the same time appealing to a broader audience and brining in new buyers. I get it. Sales/profit growth is the only thing that a large corporation like EA cares about. In fact you could make the argument that they have a legal obligation to prioritize short term profits for their investors.

My goal at this point is to provide any feedback that I can to accelerate the “casualization” of the game in order to help EA achieve its goal, until they have saturated the causal MMA market and have to appeal to gamers like me who have stopped buying the game.

It's like you skipped over these parts

- Now if the question is why are they creating systems that dont seem to line up with the goal, EA has always seemed to believe that they dont have to make a clear choice. They have always thought they they can do enough to keep hardcore fans like you while primarily appealing to people who arent pretty much automatic repeat buyers.



- I dont know if you truly understand that the argument you are making isnt helping your goal. There are members of the dev team who clearly want to go down the all casual path. Pointing out these inconsistencies isnt likely to lead down a path where you get the game you want. It will more likely take you down the path of EA going the opposite direction.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

I don’t doubt what the goal is. Like you said I’m curious as to why the stated goal often doesn’t line up with what happens, and often times seems diametrically opposed to it. You seem to have explained that they are trying to do just enough to keep us “hardcores” happy, while at the same time appealing to a broader audience and brining in new buyers. I get it. Sales/profit growth is the only thing that a large corporation like EA cares about. In fact you could make the argument that they have a legal obligation to prioritize short term profits for their investors.

My goal at this point is to provide any feedback that I can to accelerate the “casualization” of the game in order to help EA achieve its goal, until they have saturated the causal MMA market and have to appeal to gamers like me who have stopped buying the game.

That sounds nice and maybe even logical in theory but what makes you think they'll start spending resources to appeal to people who are already buying the game while disliking it?

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

EA does not care about making the ultimate UFC experience, or the best game ever, or anything such.

This is such a subjective thing. You can say that "EA does not care about making the ultimate UFC experience for ME", or "EA does not care about making the best game ever for ME".

But it's rather presumptuous to assume that you speak for the entire world when judging what the ultimate UFC experience is, or what being the best game ever means for everyone else.

Perhaps there are people out there for whom the "best game" needs an underground Kumite environment.

Perhaps there are people out there for whom the "ultimate UFC experience" must include back yard fights.

And if there are more of those people than you, then EA is clearly demonstrating that they do in fact care about the things you are so certain they don't care about.

[johnmangala]

Re: Soooo, are you part of the 'data"?

This is such a subjective thing. You can say that "EA does not care about making the ultimate UFC experience for ME", or "EA does not care about making the best game ever for ME".

But it's rather presumptuous to assume that you speak for the entire world when judging what the ultimate UFC experience is, or what being the best game ever means for everyone else.

Perhaps there are people out there for whom the "best game" needs an underground Kumite environment.

Perhaps there are people out there for whom the "ultimate UFC experience" must include back yard fights.

And if there are more of those people than you, then EA is clearly demonstrating that they do in fact care about the things you are so certain they don't care about.

I agree with what you're saying. But dana white mode would've been more appreciated than those arenas. Good additions but I'm surprised franchise mode didn't happen.