Recovery Frame Question

[ApexGamerChannel]

Striking is my favorite aspect of combat, but I don’t enjoy that element in these games or haven’t since the Undisputed days.

I completely understand the current mechanics but have a general question for anyone that can answer. Why do fighters recovery to moving or blocking faster then defensive opponent can strike back on block, and whiffed strikes?

It feels very unnatural to have to throw a moving strike to almost land on an opponent that either hit your hands with a medium to long frame count strike while they can start walking and blocking before the animation is complete even if it’s not a part of a combo.

Punishing in this game currently only can be done preemptive with a strike that can intercept, and not when an opponent throws and is block, slipped or side stepped without the offensive player returning to there block, and or start walking out of range.

In my mind short frame strikes should recover in all forms the fastest, medium should recover to blocking quicker then to movement or to striking and large frame should recover to movement the slowest and back to blocking and striking slower then the medium strikes so there is consistency in punishing on block and on whiff since currently everything is/feels safe on block.

There is some fishy-ness in the target fighters recovery as well but I need to hit the lab to narrow that down at a later date.


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[1212headkick]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

Striking is my favorite aspect of combat, but I don’t enjoy that element in these games or haven’t since the Undisputed days.

I completely understand the current mechanics but have a general question for anyone that can answer. Why do fighters recovery to moving or blocking faster then defensive opponent can strike back on block, and whiffed strikes?

It feels very unnatural to have to throw a moving strike to almost land on an opponent that either hit your hands with a medium to long frame count strike while they can start walking and blocking before the animation is complete even if it’s not a part of a combo.

Punishing in this game currently only can be done preemptive with a strike that can intercept, and not when an opponent throws and is block, slipped or side stepped without the offensive player returning to there block, and or start walking out of range.

In my mind short frame strikes should recover in all forms the fastest, medium should recover to blocking quicker then to movement or to striking and large frame should recover to movement the slowest and back to blocking and striking slower then the medium strikes so there is consistency in punishing on block and on whiff since currently everything is/feels safe on block.

There is some fishy-ness in the target fighters recovery as well but I need to hit the lab to narrow that down at a later date.


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If they miss anything other than a jab your guaranteed to get a free punch. If they miss a jab you can hit them with another jab. Recovery frames also scale with stamina. But there should be more punishment for over extending and spamming like you just did a line of cocaine with conor

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

If they miss anything other than a jab your guaranteed to get a free punch. If they miss a jab you can hit them with another jab. Recovery frames also scale with stamina. But there should be more punishment for over extending and spamming like you just did a line of cocaine with conor

Facts lol and I mean technically you can return with a jab but they can also block that jab because the frames to recovery back to you block is as fast as the jab so it’s not a true punish it becomes an mix up.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

Facts lol and I mean technically you can return with a jab but they can also block that jab because the frames to recovery back to you block is as fast as the jab so it’s not a true punish it becomes an mix up.


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Well block counters do exist for hooks/overhands.

Think of jabs as a poke. In all fighting games you have strikes that are safe on block.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Recovery Frame Question

Well block counters do exist for hooks/overhands.



Think of jabs as a poke. In all fighting games you have strikes that are safe on block.

The counter has to be input as the strike is making contact or else it doesn’t work, which is not how a typical punish works. And yeah jabs should act as pokes which sometimes are safe on block not always though. And in terms of safe on block basically everything in UFC 3 and 4 are if you can start moving away and blocking as early as you do. Everything that can land has to a mixup which is traditionally isn’t the cause curious as to why that is the case here.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

The counter has to be input as the strike is making contact or else it doesn’t work, which is not how a typical punish works. And yeah jabs should act as pokes which sometimes are safe on block not always though. And in terms of safe on block basically everything in UFC 3 and 4 are if you can start moving away and blocking as early as you do. Everything that can land has to a mixup which is traditionally isn’t the cause curious as to why that is the case here.


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This isnt a traditional fighting game and is also considered a sports game.

In real life simply blocking and then attempting to return fire is pretty difficult if your opponent is being defensive after their strikes.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

This isnt a traditional fighting game and is also considered a sports game.



In real life simply blocking and then attempting to return fire is pretty difficult if your opponent is being defensive after their strikes.

As someone that fires off the block and slips a lot irl I can’t agree, it’s one of my favorite things to do especially to counter jabs when my opponent is on the back foot.

It’s a sports game it also a fighting game so has to function correctly as a fighting game or else it’s just silliness if that makes sense.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

As someone that fires off the block and slips a lot irl I can’t agree, it’s one of my favorite things to do especially to counter jabs when my opponent is on the back foot.

It’s a sports game it also a fighting game so has to function correctly as a fighting game or else it’s just silliness if that makes sense.


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You can fire off slips just fine in the game. What you'd be asking for would be more of a parry or another block counter for jabs (which is something I'd like to see as well).

I'm not sure why you're under the impression this isn't working "correctly". Every other fighting game just uses block strings to make certain attacks safe on block.

If the game worked the way you're asking then no one would ever need to slip or use lunges.

[1212headkick]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

This isnt a traditional fighting game and is also considered a sports game.

In real life simply blocking and then attempting to return fire is pretty difficult if your opponent is being defensive after their strikes.

its not a sports game. It's an action adventure game according to the store. Ufc 3 and ud3 were sports games. On eas Twitter its called an mma fighting game. Like ea straight gave no **** about it being a sim.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

its not a sports game. It's an action adventure game according to the store. Ufc 3 and ud3 were sports games. On eas Twitter its called an mma fighting game. Like ea straight gave no **** about it being a sim.

https://www.ea.com/games/ufc/ufc-4/news/ufc-4-major-changes

I guess they want to sort of give the impression that it’s a sim game. I guess to trick people into buying it for that reason?

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

You can fire off slips just fine in the game. What you'd be asking for would be more of a parry or another block counter for jabs (which is something I'd like to see as well).



I'm not sure why you're under the impression this isn't working "correctly". Every other fighting game just uses block strings to make certain attacks safe on block.



If the game worked the way you're asking then no one would ever need to slip or use lunges.

It’s working in game correctly according to the games design but still doesn’t make it practical for your opponent to throw a four punch combo against your block then walk and block out of range before you could even return a straight cleanly.

What I’m suggesting would give blocking more of a purpose but the same logic would be applied to slips and lunges with a better effect. Currently even if you pivot lungs against a charging opponent they can still rerun to their block so you have to mix up to get anything to land that’s a problem.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

It’s working in game correctly according to the games design but still doesn’t make it practical for your opponent to throw a four punch combo against your block then walk and block out of range before you could even return a straight cleanly.

What I’m suggesting would give blocking more of a purpose but the same logic would be applied to slips and lunges with a better effect. Currently even if you pivot lungs against a charging opponent they can still rerun to their block so you have to mix up to get anything to land that’s a problem.


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If someone’s throwing a combo you’re always able to block then slip counter.

Say my opponent throws a 1-2-3. I can block the 1, slip the 2, then return fire before the 3 lands. Try it in practice.

Also if you lunge out of the way you can also hit someone before they can block. You have to queue your counter so it comes out right after the lunge.

So there are ways to return fire mid-combo. But I dont agree with the idea that you should get free hits just because you held block. Blocking in MMA isnt that powerful due to smaller gloves. That’s why footwork, head movement, and parries are the primary forms of defense.

I would love to see more block counters however.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

If someone’s throwing a combo you’re always able to block then slip counter.



Say my opponent throws a 1-2-3. I can block the 1, slip the 2, then return fire before the 3 lands. Try it in practice.



Also if you lunge out of the way you can also hit someone before they can block. You have to queue your counter so it comes out right after the lunge.



So there are ways to return fire mid-combo. But I dont agree with the idea that you should get free hits just because you held block. Blocking in MMA isnt that powerful due to smaller gloves. That’s why footwork, head movement, and parries are the primary forms of defense.



I would love to see more block counters however.

Dustin Poirer and Justin Gaethje would disagree and it’s not free hits your defense should be rewarded.

Your getting hung up on the blocking and when the same is true for slipping, lunging, and footwork the most egregiously.

And slip countering in the middle of a combo has to be imputes as the strike is hitting the block as opposed to immediately following which for one feels super unnatural and two can be super unreliable online.

This topic is not about the 1% chance that you can capitalize mid string but 99% percent of the time that your behind a step because your defense was successful but not rewarded by the slightest amount of frame advantage which you should have based on the context of the situation.

And for a fact I can tell you that blocking recovery frames are largely in favor of the offense and not the defense.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

Dustin Poirer and Justin Gaethje would disagree and it’s not free hits your defense should be rewarded.

Your getting hung up on the blocking and when the same is true for slipping, lunging, and footwork the most egregiously.

And slip countering in the middle of a combo has to be imputes as the strike is hitting the block as opposed to immediately following which for one feels super unnatural and two can be super unreliable online.

This topic is not about the 1% chance that you can capitalize mid string but 99% percent of the time that your behind a step because your defense was successful but not rewarded by the slightest amount of frame advantage which you should have based on the context of the situation.

And for a fact I can tell you that blocking recovery frames are largely in favor of the offense and not the defense.


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Gaethje was known for his poor defense until he switched to a more conservative style utilizing more footwork and counters.

Poirier isnt exactly known for his defense. Someone like Romero is a better example but he doesnt typically return fire from his guard.

Slipping,lunges, and basic whiff punishes all work well once you get the timing down.

I know some of y’all dont like hearing “git gud” but I was a low level Div 4 player before putting in work to become a decent div 5 guy. I’m letting you know it’s very possible. And yes you have to queue the counter strike.

I’m not claiming it’s easy but I dont think it should be. If you’re saying you’re at 1% capitalizing mid-string that’s a skill issue. I can show you fight between dudes that are good at the game that know how to punish effectively.

Just try it. Go into practice and has the cpu throw whatever combo you struggle with. Eventually you’ll get the timing down for counters.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Recovery Frame Question

Gaethje was known for his poor defense until he switched to a more conservative style utilizing more footwork and counters.



Poirier isnt exactly known for his defense. Someone like Romero is a better example but he doesnt typically return fire from his guard.



Slipping,lunges, and basic whiff punishes all work well once you get the timing down.



I know some of y’all dont like hearing “git gud” but I was a low level Div 4 player before putting in work to become a decent div 5 guy. I’m letting you know it’s very possible. And yes you have to queue the counter strike.



I’m not claiming it’s easy but I dont think it should be. If you’re saying you’re at 1% capitalizing mid-string that’s a skill issue. I can show you fight between dudes that are good at the game that know how to punish effectively.



Just try it. Go into practice and has the cpu throw whatever combo you struggle with. Eventually you’ll get the timing down for counters.

Flexing creds doesn’t serve the conversation anything, I was top 100 multiple times in the seasons that I played consistently. And I still saw it the way I do now, check my channel I mostly hide my opponents names out of respect for them but most of those guys were what you would call good players. Even with the wins and fights I’ve had against those players I still disliked the way it is in game currently is a disservice to all players at all skill levels.

What your saying would have more of an effect if your weren’t talking to someone with more time in the game then you could ever possible have. Not included my extensive experience in fighting games as well as all my time in game development.

I reference those fighters based off there use of there block not there overall defensive sensibility.




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