Recovery Frame Question

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

Flexing creds doesn’t serve the conversation anything, I was top 100 multiple times in the seasons that I played consistently. And I still saw it the way I do now, check my channel I mostly hide my opponents names out of respect for them but most of those guys were what you would call good players. Even with the wins and fights I’ve had against those players I still disliked the way it is in game currently is a disservice to all players at all skill levels.

No one is trying to flex (why would I even flex about being div 5? Lol) I’m saying I was someone that struggled with the same stuff you’re talking about before learning that it is possible. I had a way higher than 1% success rate on mid-string counters.

What your saying would have more of an effect if your weren’t talking to someone with more time in the game then you could ever possible have. Not included my extensive experience in fighting games as well as all my time in game development.

Seriously? I’m not trying to have a debate about ego. If you dont believe me I can try to set up a match between you and one of the top 5-10 players in the game so you can see first hand how effective counters are (dudes that likely put in more time than you and me combined)

I reference those fighters based off there use of there block not there overall defensive sensibility.

Wasn’t the entire point whether or not guys in MMA rely on their block effectively and land shots from it?


Since you won’t take my word for anything lemme know if you’d rather experience it first hand from someone better than either of us.



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[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

No one is trying to flex (why would I even flex about being div 5? Lol) I’m saying I was someone that struggled with the same stuff you’re talking about before learning that it is possible. I had a way higher than 1% success rate on mid-string counters.







Seriously? I’m not trying to have a debate about ego. If you dont believe me I can try to set up a match between you and one of the top 5-10 players in the game so you can see first hand how effective counters are (dudes that likely put in more time than you and me combined)







Wasn’t the entire point whether or not guys in MMA rely on their block effectively and land shots from it?





Since you won’t take my word for anything lemme know if you’d rather experience it first hand from someone better than either of us.







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[/QUOTE]



You’re talking like I haven’t played the people you are referring too on numerous occasions.
And can play them anytime I’d like since I’m in contact with most of them and know some of them personally.
Your mindset is exactly why the game is the way it is, instead of question how something could be better you’re willing to lay on back and except it. Why don’t check hooks work in the game? No clue let’s move on since I’ve seen one instance of a top player landing one.
Think more creatively before discussing topics. The question was never how does this currently work in the buy why does it work that way.


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[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

This is actually a “git gud” issue. People hate hearing that the game isn’t the issue and they are, but this is one of the cases in which it is true.

Top 100 on the leaderboards means next to nothing, especially now. The best players are usually in the top 20 spots in ranked and the gulf between them and the rest of the leaderboard is massive. The others are using smurf accounts or just avoiding ranked all together.

If you fire on my block and don’t break it, you’re eating a body hook. Even if you couldn’t return fire off of block, it wouldn’t matter because blocking is low risk low reward. You shouldn’t get to counter off the block except in certain situations like block counters. Blocking sucks in MMA, so this is actually pretty realistic but even if it wasn’t, this is a competitive game. You need balance. Making counters off block harder to land is a perfectly reasonable thing to do because of how low skill blocking is.

Footwork, lunges, and head movement are now all in a great place in terms of viability. We don’t need low skill counter options when movement is both the more realistic and competitively viable solution.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

You’re talking like I haven’t played the people you are referring too on numerous occasions.
And can play them anytime I’d like since I’m in contact with most of them and know some of them personally.
Your mindset is exactly why the game is the way it is, instead of question how something could be better you’re willing to lay on back and except it. Why don’t check hooks work in the game? No clue let’s move on since I’ve seen one instance of a top player landing one.
Think more creatively before discussing topics. The question was never how does this currently work in the buy why does it work that way.


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I don’t mind discussing how things can be better. I already answered your original question. It’s because this is a sports game and in real life blocking isnt typically seen as an effective way to counter. The game is already in a great place in terms of gameplay balance + real life meta influence. I’m all for looking to improve it but we have to start at a place that is consistent with how the game works. When you say things like slipping/lunging counters don’t work we cant have a meaningful discussion until you understand your initial point is wrong.

And can you stop pretending like I’m supposed to know who you are? I have no clue about your background or who you communicate with. What I do know is a lot of the stuff you’re saying doesnt hold up to the game’s actual mechanics.

But hopefully you’ll listen to RetractedMonkey since he was an ESFL champion at one point.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

This is actually a “git gud” issue. People hate hearing that the game isn’t the issue and they are, but this is one of the cases in which it is true.

Top 100 on the leaderboards means next to nothing, especially now. The best players are usually in the top 20 spots in ranked and the gulf between them and the rest of the leaderboard is massive. The others are using smurf accounts or just avoiding ranked all together.

If you fire on my block and don’t break it, you’re eating a body hook. Even if you couldn’t return fire off of block, it wouldn’t matter because blocking is low risk low reward. You shouldn’t get to counter off the block except in certain situations like block counters. Blocking sucks in MMA, so this is actually pretty realistic but even if it wasn’t, this is a competitive game. You need balance. Making counters off block harder to land is a perfectly reasonable thing to do because of how low skill blocking is.

Footwork, lunges, and head movement are now all in a great place in terms of viability. We don’t need low skill counter options when movement is both the more realistic and competitively viable solution.


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Good old fashioned moving the goal post.

Block counters lol so the one lead hook on blocked rear hooks/overhangs in closed stance only lol

So In this thread footwork is in a good place, thread I read last week footwork was op.

Let’s be honest if the best player said the same things I’m saying your you’d fall in line but coming from a source your don’t recognize or respect it’s a git gud.

Facts are i know the game backwards and forwards which is why I don’t play it or try to “prove” my skill at the highest rofl levels holy **** that’s funny to say about a game with no esport scene or earning lmao out right comedy.

But if you are ok with players like me and many others running your blocks with combos to opening you up without being able to do anything back that’s fine be me.


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[jigsaw736]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

Flexing creds doesn’t serve the conversation anything, I was top 100 multiple times in the seasons that I played consistently.

Top 100 isn’t even good. When you start getting below 15 , that’s when the skill level takes a massive jump.

You might know the game backwards and forwards , but I’m guessing your in game skill is not on the same level as your “knowledge”.

UFC 3 has a lot of good players , but very very few Great players.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

Top 100 isn’t even good. When you start getting below 15 , that’s when the skill level takes a massive jump.

You might know the game backwards and forwards , but I’m guessing your in game skill is not on the same level as your “knowledge”.

UFC 3 has a lot of good players , but very very few Great players.

If by skill you mean still spending time on the game correct, but when I was playing the game regularly different story.

And still serve not purpose in the conversation if I was the best to ever play the game I’d still feel things need to be addressed for the betterment of all the people playing the game.



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[jigsaw736]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

No offense, but I think even when you were playing this game regularly you still were not a true top player.

This community is small enough to know who stands out.

UFC 3 is pretty balanced , a few broken mechanics but this is not one of them.

If you were to say something like that the double under takedown reversal needs tuning , I think everyone would agree.

Unfortunately this may be case of you needing to get just a little bit better.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

No offense, but I think even when you were playing this game regularly you still were not a true top player.

This community is small enough to know who stands out.

UFC 3 is pretty balanced , a few broken mechanics but this is not one of them.

If you were to say something like that the double under takedown reversal needs tuning , I think everyone would agree.

Unfortunately this may be case of you needing to get just a little bit better.

I’m sure even when I was playing I was better then you so you ain’t saying anything. And the community has grown since I’ve removed myself. The takedown reversal issue is just another example of the games balance being questionable.

I won’t ever get better because I’m not willing to adapt to an unnatural set of rules and criteria that only applies to this poorly designed game.

What I know from playing tekken in small part hurts when I play street fighter and turn the same fundamental apply to mk or kh. Nothing in this game translate back to how combat works in real life or any other game in its genre or outside of it.

That in large part is due to most players not knowing how the games works technically and accepting the games design as reality. I’m guessing you think in real life a three step headkick uses the same amount of energy and will reach the target as fast as a standing headkick, cause that’s how it works in this game.


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[Counter Punch]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

I won’t ever get better because I’m not willing to adapt to an unnatural set of rules and criteria that only applies to this poorly designed game.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS....

The “top” players have always had a disproportionate influence in the balancing of the game post launch. These guys literally got to play a major role in shaping the direction of the gameplay for the first 5 or 6 months after the release of UFC 3. Then they turn around and throw it in your face every chance they get.

“I literally complained anytime something happened that I didnt want to adapt to until they changed it, now I don’t lose anymore”. Well no ****. The game was LITERALLY built around your strengths and playstyle. You better be in the top 20.

Meanwhile before patches 1.03 and 1.04, I went 80-15 on WiFi half drunk and stoned out of my mind the whole time, and then got so frustrated with the dramatic changes that were made to the game that I just didn’t have the motivation to “git gud”. I’ve watched plenty of ESFL fights and “high level” gameplay, and it’s so unbelievably off putting to watch. I understand that you guys have a different opinion. That’s fine. I don’t use Not being good at something as an argument for why something should be different. It’s just as invalid for you guys to say because you’re in the top 10 that you know best whether or not a change would make the game more fun for someone else.

You guys talk about “balance” as though it exists completely outside of the context of your play styles, which are pretty indistinguishable from each other at the “highest level”.

It’s not that we can’t “git gud”, it’s that we don’t want to given the current mechanics of the game. That’s entirely reasonable, and the big leaguing that takes place around here as a total substitution for an argument gets completely out of control. Saying something is “balanced” doesn’t make it balanced. And anytime I actually see any of these guys try to make a fleshed our argument about why they think something is balanced, they fall flat on their face. That’s when the big leaguing starts. It never fails.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS....

The “top” players have always had a disproportionate influence in the balancing of the game post launch. These guys literally got to play a major role in shaping the direction of the gameplay for the first 5 or 6 months after the release of UFC 3. Then they turn around and throw it in your face every chance they get.

“I literally complained anytime something happened that I didnt want to adapt to until they changed it, now I don’t lose anymore”. Well no ****. The game was LITERALLY built around your strengths and playstyle. You better be in the top 20.

Meanwhile before patches 1.03 and 1.04, I went 80-15 on WiFi half drunk and stoned out of my mind the whole time, and then got so frustrated with the dramatic changes that were made to the game that I just didn’t have the motivation to “git gud”. I’ve watched plenty of ESFL fights and “high level” gameplay, and it’s so unbelievably off putting to watch. I understand that you guys have a different opinion. That’s fine. I don’t use Not being good at something as an argument for why something should be different. It’s just as invalid for you guys to say because you’re in the top 10 that you know best whether or not a change would make the game more fun for someone else.

You guys talk about “balance” as though it exists completely outside of the context of your play styles, which are pretty indistinguishable from each other at the “highest level”.

It’s not that we can’t “git gud”, it’s that we don’t want to given the current mechanics of the game. That’s entirely reasonable, and the big leaguing that takes place around here as a total substitution for an argument gets completely out of control. Saying something is “balanced” doesn’t make it balanced. And anytime I actually see any of these guys try to make a fleshed our argument about why they think something is balanced, they fall flat on their face. That’s when the big leaguing starts. It never fails.

You see, this is something that no one who truly knows the game would say (specifically regarding all high level play styles looking the same). You can’t look at me, EdParker, Kenetic, Pryoxis, Jigsaw, Romero, and SwissLibax saying we all play the same. There are massive and (quite honestly) obvious differences between how we all play.

Just another point: if you don’t know the inner workings of the early build/game changer system you can’t comment on it with clarity. The gamechangers are all working toward gameplay balance and fun. I have specifically seen casual players mentioned in talks about changing things to help them without handicapping the skill ceiling. No one is saying “give us unlimited stamina because my style is pressure”. In fact, as you can now see, no one wanted stamina the way it was in the beta. Also, I didn’t have anything to do with the game pre-launch until UFC 4 just to be clear.


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[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS....

The “top” players have always had a disproportionate influence in the balancing of the game post launch. These guys literally got to play a major role in shaping the direction of the gameplay for the first 5 or 6 months after the release of UFC 3. Then they turn around and throw it in your face every chance they get.

“I literally complained anytime something happened that I didnt want to adapt to until they changed it, now I don’t lose anymore”. Well no ****. The game was LITERALLY built around your strengths and playstyle. You better be in the top 20.

Meanwhile before patches 1.03 and 1.04, I went 80-15 on WiFi half drunk and stoned out of my mind the whole time, and then got so frustrated with the dramatic changes that were made to the game that I just didn’t have the motivation to “git gud”. I’ve watched plenty of ESFL fights and “high level” gameplay, and it’s so unbelievably off putting to watch. I understand that you guys have a different opinion. That’s fine. I don’t use Not being good at something as an argument for why something should be different. It’s just as invalid for you guys to say because you’re in the top 10 that you know best whether or not a change would make the game more fun for someone else.

You guys talk about “balance” as though it exists completely outside of the context of your play styles, which are pretty indistinguishable from each other at the “highest level”.

It’s not that we can’t “git gud”, it’s that we don’t want to given the current mechanics of the game. That’s entirely reasonable, and the big leaguing that takes place around here as a total substitution for an argument gets completely out of control. Saying something is “balanced” doesn’t make it balanced. And anytime I actually see any of these guys try to make a fleshed our argument about why they think something is balanced, they fall flat on their face. That’s when the big leaguing starts. It never fails.

This puts into words something that I've also felt but was never really able to express.

I think the big disconnect really is that it's related to the real-life sport of MMA, and you want to fight feeling exactly like how it happens in the real sport.

In traditional fighting games like Tekken or Street Fighter, realism doesn't really matter and balance is paramount, so the meta is easier to understand, easier to adapt to and more motivating to learn.

In the UFC games, the higher you want to get in the rankings, the more you have to adapt to the in-game meta, just like in traditional fighting games. However, I've always felt that the more you adapt to the meta in the UFC games, the more you drift away from the actual sport of MMA, which is exactly what I don't want and what also discourages me to try and get better.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

This puts into words something that I've also felt but was never really able to express.

I think the big disconnect really is that it's related to the real-life sport of MMA, and you want to fight feeling exactly like how it happens in the real sport.

In traditional fighting games like Tekken or Street Fighter, realism doesn't really matter and balance is paramount, so the meta is easier to understand, easier to adapt to and more motivating to learn.

In the UFC games, the higher you want to get in the rankings, the more you have to adapt to the in-game meta, just like in traditional fighting games. However, I've always felt that the more you adapt to the meta in the UFC games, the more you drift away from the actual sport of MMA, which is exactly what I don't want and what also discourages me to try and get better.

Very valid point

I wish we could at least get a separate sim mode or online sliders.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

Supreme_Bananas,

The response you’re inevitably going to get is, “the game can’t possibly simulate all the aspects of a fight”, as thought that’s what anyone is suggesting or expecting.

It’s very difficult to talk about realism on this forum without being subjected to a carpet bombing of strawmanning, whatsboutism, and big leaguing.

For example, I guess because we can’t aim exactly where our punches are thrown with realistic precision, that we should abandon the idea of accuracy being somewhat realistic in the game. We are the players. Our role is to point out issues with the game. The developers role is to hopefully hear our concerns and do what they do best, come up with creative solutions to move the game in a better direction. I’ve been a gamer for a long time. It’s always been generally accepted that while these are certainly sports videogames, in the grand scheme of things we should be moving towards more realism.

This is the only sports gaming community I’ve ever seen where the elite core of the community seems to think realism is a dirty word and equates to “no fun”. But I guess gsming is changing. Oh well.

I genuinely don’t believe that more realism can’t be implemented in a way that is fun. It fact it makes almost no sense to suggest that’s the case, but it happens here on the daily.

EA sold out the sim community in order to appease the tryhard FGC bleedovers and the 12 year olds rich kids with access to mommy’s credit card.

We could play a game of turd dodgeball, and if we both have the same number of turds, I guess that’s balanced. But I’m honestly not really interested in playing turd dodgeball. And people can certainly say that I’m not interested in playing turd dodgeball because I’m not good at turd dodgeball, but in reality I just don’t enjoy the smell.

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: Recovery Frame Question

Supreme_Bananas,

The response you’re inevitably going to get is, “the game can’t possibly simulate all the aspects of a fight”, as thought that’s what anyone is suggesting or expecting.

It’s very difficult to talk about realism on this forum without being subjected to a carpet bombing of strawmanning, whatsboutism, and big leaguing.

For example, I guess because we can’t aim exactly where our punches are thrown with realistic precision, that we should abandon the idea of accuracy being somewhat realistic in the game. We are the players. Our role is to point out issues with the game. The developers role is to hopefully hear our concerns and do what they do best, come up with creative solutions to move the game in a better direction. I’ve been a gamer for a long time. It’s always been generally accepted that while these are certainly sports videogames, in the grand scheme of things we should be moving towards more realism.

This is the only sports gaming community I’ve ever seen where the elite core of the community seems to think realism is a dirty word and equates to “no fun”. But I guess gsming is changing. Oh well.

I genuinely don’t believe that more realism can’t be implemented in a way that is fun. It fact it makes almost no sense to suggest that’s the case, but it happens here on the daily.

EA sold out the sim community in order to appease the tryhard FGC bleedovers and the 12 year olds rich kids with access to mommy’s credit card.

We could play a game of turd dodgeball, and if we both have the same number of turds, I guess that’s balanced. But I’m honestly not really interested in playing turd dodgeball. And people can certainly say that I’m not interested in playing turd dodgeball because I’m not good at turd dodgeball, but in reality I just don’t enjoy the smell.

Turd dodgeball lmao

For example, I guess because we can’t aim exactly where our punches are thrown with realistic precision, that we should abandon the idea of accuracy being somewhat realistic in the game

If that's really an argument being made, that looks like a perfect solution fallacy to me. "We'll never achieve 100% realism, so why bother at all?". Like you said, it's an admirable goal to strive for as much realism as possible even though it'll probably never be completely realistic.