Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

[DCowboys22]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

In UFC 3, I didn’t spend a ton of time learning the grappling. Mainly because it just wasn’t that fun.

This time around I’m finding it more rewarding to win on the ground. Submissions are better in UFC 4. Although we still desperately need HUDless subs or TBS

Joint locks are gettable, Chokes are more difficult. I’ve been taking arms home with me in the trial.


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[HypeRNT]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

The word you are looking for is "broken" or "overpowered", but sure, i guess deadly works too.

[WarMMA]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

I love the idea of strike catching to submissions from GnP.

Right now, posting Hooks is done with L1 and right Analog Left/Right. Just add R1 for Strike catching subs.

Hold L1/R1 and properly time the incoming hook in the proper direction Left/Right.

This would be fighter specific for guys with high bottom sub game/guard specialists.

The hard part is adding proper animations for this, but it can be done.


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It definitely can be done and it needs to be done. I mean it was in UFC 3...idk why they would remove it. It baffles me honestly. But by removing that, they took away a very vital part of the submission fighters game. Things like catching GnP strikes into triangles, armbars, kimura's, ect. You add those stuff and now all of a sudden, alot of these guys online that are swinging for the fences with GnP will start getting caught and submitted with the quickness against skilled players using submission fighters. EA took away a very important part of the submission fighters game by removing those smh.

[EarvGotti]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

The word you are looking for is "broken" or "overpowered", but sure, i guess deadly works too.

Subs are definitely not broken. You try to get any decent player in a sub and 9/10 times they're gonna escape. Some people just don't know how to properly defend them yet.

We finally have an actual jiu jitsu threat in the game and you guys immediately yell "BROKEN". This is MMA my guy. You have to deal with EVERYTHING.

[LeonVegaSuarez]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

It is deadly. After denying a few transitions I subbed the AI on pro and legendary a lot of times. Quite like the new system.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

Subs are definitely not broken. You try to get any decent player in a sub and 9/10 times they're gonna escape. Some people just don't know how to properly defend them yet.



We finally have an actual jiu jitsu threat in the game and you guys immediately yell "BROKEN". This is MMA my guy. You have to deal with EVERYTHING.

Agreed. I’ve always had pretty good sub defense, I’m really not getting subbed online much. When it happens, I get it. I may have had low stamina and a high sub Offensive player slapped one on me. But generally, I remain calm and play the mini game.

Too many people just don’t understand the strategy of the sub system. It’s more obvious on Joint locks, as you can see their bar get huge. That’s a clear sign of their lack of understanding.

That’s not broken, it’s a player base that hasn’t learned the game yet.


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[SlimmerFredette]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

Agreed. I’ve always had pretty good sub defense, I’m really not getting subbed online much. When it happens, I get it. I may have had low stamina and a high sub Offensive player slapped one on me. But generally, I remain calm and play the mini game.

Too many people just don’t understand the strategy of the sub system. It’s more obvious on Joint locks, as you can see their bar get huge. That’s a clear sign of their lack of understanding.

That’s not broken, it’s a player base that hasn’t learned the game yet.


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Again, I'd love to see examples of how realistic and great Jiu jtisu is in the game, because in the video in OP there are so many glaring issues that make BJJ look cheap and the easy way out to win as it stands right now.

But my issues are really with joint locks. There isn't much space to maneuver so really you're just going left/right, left/right. The Gates form UFC3 and 4 were so much better because it actually required some trickery and thought to it, this is just an easy way to win.

[SlimmerFredette]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

Agreed. I’ve always had pretty good sub defense, I’m really not getting subbed online much. When it happens, I get it. I may have had low stamina and a high sub Offensive player slapped one on me. But generally, I remain calm and play the mini game.

Too many people just don’t understand the strategy of the sub system. It’s more obvious on Joint locks, as you can see their bar get huge. That’s a clear sign of their lack of understanding.

That’s not broken, it’s a player base that hasn’t learned the game yet.


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1st clip: Diaz (who had less stamina) rides tonys back and depletes his stamina and goes for a RNC (as if Tony doesn't have excellent sub defense).

2nd clip: equal stamina, yet Tony's "escape" bar is twice the size of Nate's "submit" bar (at times it takes up the whole minigame), which makes is so easy to submit Ferguson, who, again, has never been submitted in MMA, yet its light work for nate diaz because Tony's "escape" bar takes up the whole minigame.

3rd clip: no issue here really, although wrestling should have wore out nate more.

4th clip, standing guillotine, the easiest submission to get in this game rn, not much needs to be said there.

5th clip, GSP loses almost all his stamina even though NATE is the one who jumped guillotine. GSP jumps to the opposite side to defend, but really it does nothing to the minigame (in reality if GSP was in that position, he puts his arm under nate neck and puts shoulder pressure on nate's neck, forcing him to let go of the choke immediately, but somehow nate lets go of the sub and can go for an armbar easily.


All in all, the clips in OP showed me how horrible stamina and submission minigames react, and that the joint lock minigame is functionally broken. I had no problem with subs in UFC 2/3 because most times I was just outplayed, but if a nate/maia can easily take your back within 3 secs and turn your stamina to zero, there needs to be some changes or else you'll get all these players going up the leaderboards playing in this cheap way.

[DCowboys22]

Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

1st clip: Diaz (who had less stamina) rides tonys back and depletes his stamina and goes for a RNC (as if Tony doesn't have excellent sub defense).

2nd clip: equal stamina, yet Tony's "escape" bar is twice the size of Nate's "submit" bar (at times it takes up the whole minigame), which makes is so easy to submit Ferguson, who, again, has never been submitted in MMA, yet its light work for nate diaz because Tony's "escape" bar takes up the whole minigame.

3rd clip: no issue here really, although wrestling should have wore out nate more.

4th clip, standing guillotine, the easiest submission to get in this game rn, not much needs to be said there.

5th clip, GSP loses almost all his stamina even though NATE is the one who jumped guillotine. GSP jumps to the opposite side to defend, but really it does nothing to the minigame (in reality if GSP was in that position, he puts his arm under nate neck and puts shoulder pressure on nate's neck, forcing him to let go of the choke immediately, but somehow nate lets go of the sub and can go for an armbar easily.


All in all, the clips in OP showed me how horrible stamina and submission minigames react, and that the joint lock minigame is functionally broken. I had no problem with subs in UFC 2/3 because most times I was just outplayed, but if a nate/maia can easily take your back within 3 secs and turn your stamina to zero, there needs to be some changes or else you'll get all these players going up the leaderboards playing in this cheap way.

Remember that these clips are online fights. The reason the defender’s bar gets so wide is more because the person controlling the bar is spamming back and forth.

It’s a mechanic to simulate panic and punish spamming the buttons. You have to finesse the bar back and forth on joint locks. So even though someone could have great stamina, or using a fighter with great sub defense, if they don’t play the mini game correctly they will lose.

That’s a good thing isn’t it? We don’t just want the stats to determine the sub or not, otherwise why play the game at all.

Again, that’s not a broken mini game, that’s people that don’t know how to play it, shooting themselves in the foot



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[SlimmerFredette]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

Remember that these clips are online fights. The reason the defender’s bar gets so wide is more because the person controlling the bar is spamming back and forth.

It’s a mechanic to simulate panic and punish spamming the buttons. You have to finesse the bar back and forth on joint locks. So even though someone could have great stamina, for a fighter with great sub defense, if they don’t play the mini game correctly they will lose.

That’s a good thing isn’t it? We don’t just want the stats to determine the sub or not, otherwise why play the game at all.

Again, that’s not a broken mini game, that’s people that don’t know how to play it, shooting themselves in the foot



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It's easy to just imply the player base needs to "get good" when the "good" hasn't been explained by the devs/Community managers. I just don't see the videos in OP as a good representation of "deadly" bjj, there are glaring issues in each of the subs. There is no reason nate should be able to ride the back of ferguson and it will deplete in the same rate as Conor (for example).

I was watching Kenetic NRG and RomeroXVII live stream a few days ago and much of the subs -- to me -- seemed like just spinning a circle because you can cover so much more real estate that way.

The devs failed in explaining how to properly play their minigames.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

It's easy to just imply the player base needs to "get good" when the "good" hasn't been explained by the devs/Community managers. I just don't see the videos in OP as a good representation of "deadly" bjj, there are glaring issues in each of the subs. There is no reason nate should be able to ride the back of ferguson and it will deplete in the same rate as Conor (for example).



I was watching Kenetic NRG and RomeroXVII live stream a few days ago and much of the subs -- to me -- seemed like just spinning a circle because you can cover so much more real estate that way.



The devs failed in explaining how to properly play their minigames.

Well that part I agree with. They need to be better about explaining how to play the sub games. The do explain it in the game a bit already but probably could be more in depth. But that doesn’t mean the sub games are broken, which is my only point.

They aren’t broken per se, the players don’t know how to play it properly.


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[johnmangala]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

Chokes subs are too easy to escape now. Joint subs are okay.

[DCowboys22]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

Chokes subs are too easy to escape now. Joint subs are okay.

Yes, chokes can use some adjusting. Doesn’t seem to be enough penalty for spamming the spin


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[SlimmerFredette]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

Well that part I agree with. They need to be better about explaining how to play the sub games. The do explain it in the game a bit already but probably could be more in depth. But that doesn’t mean the sub games are broken, which is my only point.

They aren’t broken per se, the players don’t know how to play it properly.


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You didn't really address my comments on stamina but whatever, we can agree to disagree. I think it's broken and imo is not as rewarding as UFC 2/3, as it stands now, it's the easy way out of a fight that doesn't require much thought and I haven't felt that way since the UFC 3 beta.

[EarvGotti]

Re: Jiu-Jitsu in UFC 4 is DEADLY

It's easy to just imply the player base needs to "get good" when the "good" hasn't been explained by the devs/Community managers. I just don't see the videos in OP as a good representation of "deadly" bjj, there are glaring issues in each of the subs. There is no reason nate should be able to ride the back of ferguson and it will deplete in the same rate as Conor (for example).

I was watching Kenetic NRG and RomeroXVII live stream a few days ago and much of the subs -- to me -- seemed like just spinning a circle because you can cover so much more real estate that way.

The devs failed in explaining how to properly play their minigames.

There's a Tutorial section in-game with videos from D-Mart explaining the entire submission system in detail.

Also, when i spoke about jiu-jitsu i wasn't just referring to submissions, but also the grappling. The fact that you can pull guard now is awesome. Backpack is a bit controversial and I can understand why(especially against the cage)...but its great to see more jiu-jitsu positions and moves in the game.

Hopefully they can balance out the stuff like backpack and the cage guillotine but i'd always rather have more tools to work with in an MMA game than to have a meta of just standing and banging.