Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

[BQ32]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

Most developers likely don't know it's a thing, because they're busy in their little caves. Busy working on the many wonders yet to be seen by the outside world.

HOWEVER! Those in the know, know. And for the most part we agree that stamina is draining too slowly. Most of the game changers agree, more tax for the tax man! But we must be mindful not to overdo it, as different playstyles can in fact drain considerable amount of stamina against a similarly matched opponent.

One big thing most people probably don't recall or notice is that basic core strikes have a stamina floor, where throwing them at low stamina eventually falls off draining more. So you can throw a few hundred jabs without hitting 0, but you sure as heck couldn't spam a few hundred overhands.

Thanks for the community involvement and feedback.

Stamina really isn't as much of a problem as many here seem to think. I have MANY fights where by the second and third round my opponent is completely gassed and I am just toying with them and carrying them to entertain myself lol. I think a lot of the player base though is having a tough time dealing with continuous straight 1-2 pressure with hooks and uppercuts mixed in. If an opponent is good at understanding appropriate range and making continuous contact I can see where people feel the stamina is not draining as it should. I think an alternative fix to look at may be the accuracy of the 1-2s and how fast they come out relative to the speed you can sway. many times the straights are connecting even when I have anticipated before the punch was thrown. Though I think this is mainly only an issue with high accuracy fighters. Maybe either a slight decrease to the tracking of those punches or a bit of speed increase to the head movement could have a beneficial impact of stopping the perceived spam. Or another idea might be to have strikes on block have a bit more stamina drain if the other options are not possibilities.

[BQ32]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

Most developers likely don't know it's a thing, because they're busy in their little caves. Busy working on the many wonders yet to be seen by the outside world.

HOWEVER! Those in the know, know. And for the most part we agree that stamina is draining too slowly. Most of the game changers agree, more tax for the tax man! But we must be mindful not to overdo it, as different playstyles can in fact drain considerable amount of stamina against a similarly matched opponent.

One big thing most people probably don't recall or notice is that basic core strikes have a stamina floor, where throwing them at low stamina eventually falls off draining more. So you can throw a few hundred jabs without hitting 0, but you sure as heck couldn't spam a few hundred overhands.

Thanks for the community involvement and feedback.

Stamina really isn't as much of a problem as many here seem to think. I have MANY fights where by the second and third round my opponent is completely gassed and I am just toying with them and carrying them to entertain myself lol. I think a lot of the player base though is having a tough time dealing with continuous straight 1-2 pressure with hooks and uppercuts mixed in. If an opponent is good at understanding appropriate range and making continuous contact I can see where people feel the stamina is not draining as it should. I think an alternative fix to look at may be the accuracy of the 1-2s and how fast they come out relative to the speed you can sway. many times the straights are connecting even when I have anticipated before the punch was thrown. Though I think this is mainly only an issue with high accuracy fighters. Maybe either a slight decrease to the tracking of those punches or a bit of speed increase to the head movement could have a beneficial impact of stopping the perceived spam. Or another idea might be to have strikes on block have a bit more stamina drain if the other options are not possibilities.

EDIT* On further thought, I think there just is not enough stamina drain on the 12/112 combos in general whether they make contact or not. If not individually they should be more taxing when used in successive combos repeatedly, especially when they are whiffing. increasing the stamina tax on those combos alone and maybe adding a stamina tax multiplier may be a solution as well.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

Thanks for the community involvement and feedback.

Stamina really isn't as much of a problem as many here seem to think. I have MANY fights where by the second and third round my opponent is completely gassed and I am just toying with them and carrying them to entertain myself lol. I think a lot of the player base though is having a tough time dealing with continuous straight 1-2 pressure with hooks and uppercuts mixed in. If an opponent is good at understanding appropriate range and making continuous contact I can see where people feel the stamina is not draining as it should. I think an alternative fix to look at may be the accuracy of the 1-2s and how fast they come out relative to the speed you can sway. many times the straights are connecting even when I have anticipated before the punch was thrown. Though I think this is mainly only an issue with high accuracy fighters. Maybe either a slight decrease to the tracking of those punches or a bit of speed increase to the head movement could have a beneficial impact of stopping the perceived spam. Or another idea might be to have strikes on block have a bit more stamina drain if the other options are not possibilities.

To piggyback off this post:

I’m finding that I often have to commit to head movement way before my opponents strike is thrown in order to have any chance of avoiding it, basically turning it into an (educated) guessing game. That’s not inherently a problem if balanced properly.

There are safe strikes, but what are the safe defensive options? Backing up doesn’t really work because it eventually puts your back up against the cage, and combos landing on your block slow your retreat regardless.

Lateral movement doesn’t work because it’s extremely slow and punches will still track you. Lunges will work but have high vulnerability and ultimately result in a 50/50 guessing game if strikes other than straights are thrown.

You can block while lunging but if you get hit it eats away at your block, reduces your stamina, and puts you in a position to get trapped if you the try to back away (remember strikes on your block slow your retreat).

Body shots have little to no stopping power unless timed perfectly and put you at risk of a super uppercut counter. You can spam headmovement but the reduces your stamina more than throwing combos.

You can clinch or use takedowns but non-strikers still have these offensive striking advantages, so you’re potentially putting yourself into deep water with a shark by doing that.

It just seems really hard to disengage with people who are trying to smother you. I haven’t figured out a way to reliably circle out. Every defensive action seems to be punished immediately, if not by my opponent than by the game itself. Is this balanced? Should Effective offensive and effective defense require a similar skill level? Am I just trash at the game (likely).

PLEASE HELP!!

[NYG_Meth]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

After MUCH skepticism, I'm REALLY enjoying the stand-up in this game. Admittedly, I play stand-and-bang almost exclusively.

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

To piggyback off this post:

I’m finding that I often have to commit to head movement way before my opponents strike is thrown in order to have any chance of avoiding it, basically turning it into an (educated) guessing game. That’s not inherently a problem if balanced properly.

There are safe strikes, but what are the safe defensive options? Backing up doesn’t really work because it eventually puts your back up against the cage, and combos landing on your block slow your retreat regardless.

Lateral movement doesn’t work because it’s extremely slow and punches will still track you. Lunges will work but have high vulnerability and ultimately result in a 50/50 guessing game if strikes other than straights are thrown.

You can block while lunging but if you get hit it eats away at your block, reduces your stamina, and puts you in a position to get trapped if you the try to back away (remember strikes on your block slow your retreat).

Body shots have little to no stopping power unless timed perfectly and put you at risk of a super uppercut counter. You can spam headmovement but the reduces your stamina more than throwing combos.

You can clinch or use takedowns but non-strikers still have these offensive striking advantages, so you’re potentially putting yourself into deep water with a shark by doing that.

It just seems really hard to disengage with people who are trying to smother you. I haven’t figured out a way to reliably circle out. Every defensive action seems to be punished immediately, if not by my opponent than by the game itself. Is this balanced? Should Effective offensive and effective defense require a similar skill level? Am I just trash at the game (likely).

PLEASE HELP!!

Pressure fighters can smell it when you want to play realistically or don't have the skill to punish them . They are like bullies .you gave to stand your ground and don't move back. Always pick someone with heavy and fast hands and go at them in the pocket. You will likely get kod but don't be a punk about it. Stand your ground wait for them to throw and hit em back.

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Haz____]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

Pressure fighters can smell it when you want to play realistically or don't have the skill to punish them . They are like bullies .you have to stand your ground and don't move back. Always pick someone with heavy and fast hands and go at them in the pocket. You will likely get kod but don't be a punk about it. Stand your ground wait for them to throw and hit em back.

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

So what you're saying is, give up on trying to have a realistic fight, don't bother trying to use your fighter in the style they would actually fight, and instead just go full "meta" and game the game.

Sounds fun.

[MixedMetalArts]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

So what you're saying is, give up on trying to have a realistic fight, don't bother trying to use your fighter in the style they would actually fight, and instead just go full "meta" and game the game.

Sounds fun.

This. So much this. Infinite amounts of this.
Changing my perception of MMA and my goal in purchasing an MMA game is somehow the answer to an MMA game not playing like... An MMA game.
This situation is backwards man.

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

So what you're saying is, give up on trying to have a realistic fight, don't bother trying to use your fighter in the style they would actually fight, and instead just go full "meta" and game the game.

Sounds fun.

Did you not read the part I said about fighting back ?

If you want to not be pressured , you have to fight with someone who has a laid back calculated style .

If being a sim player means getting slept , by all means call me an arcade guy. I will fight sim all the time but if you pressure me I will ground you and choke you out to the best of my abilities.

Don't get it twisted my bro.

That's not what I meant.

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

This. So much this. Infinite amounts of this.
Changing my perception of MMA and my goal in purchasing an MMA game is somehow the answer to an MMA game not playing like... An MMA game.
This situation is backwards man.

Right now pressure ain't even the meta right now , chokes are .

But if you go through my posts I've always asked for more defensive tools . Footwork , counters , hand fighting etc .

Until this is done , people will continue to exploit this by paying pressure .



Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

Did you not read the part I said about fighting back ?

If you want to not be pressured , you have to fight with someone who has a laid back calculated style .

If being a sim player means getting slept , by all means call me an arcade guy. I will fight sim all the time but if you pressure me I will ground you and choke you out to the best of my abilities.

Don't get it twisted my bro.

That's not what I meant.

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

I ain't mean to come of as angry or nothing Haz. Sorry .

But it is what it is. It shouldn't be that way.

Hopefully once the marathoner perk is tuned , we won't see so many people pressing forward with no regard for vulnerability.

[emoji1531]

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Skynet]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

Thanks for giving a bit more background on ragdolls/KO's. I totally get that it can be like playing whack-a-mole trying to appease gamers (especially MMA gamers).

I've been one of the guys trying to give constructive feedback on the knockout physics since UFC 3, and I'm passionate about improving it. And I do want to acknowledge the the KO's in UFC 4 are an improvement over UFC 3! But I still think there are ways to make it better, and satisfy most of us picky fans

I know it's not helpful for us to just say "bring back UFC 2 ragdollz !", so I'm trying to better understand the constraints we have to work with in UFC 4. From what I gather, we're using a hybrid animation system that applies ragdoll physics that solve with pre-determined poses. So they're not "canned animations". I'm wondering if this system is similar to the Animation Pose Snapshot in Unreal Engine, where you can set target poses to the ragdoll to make blending out of them smoother?

I noticed in UFC 4 there seems to be 2 target poses, 1 for the initial knockout, and another for the FTF. You can see what I mean here. Jones falls into the predetermined side posed, then blends into another target pose when Silva jumps on him. Since we're already blending into the "FTF target pose" to allow for follow up strikes, I'm wondering if this first target pose is necessary. This first target pose seems to be the real crux of the "ragdoll issue", and is what is sucking the wind out of the knockouts.

Especially since people love doing walk-off KO's in UFC 4

Yes, there are indeed parallels to the snapshot system seen in Unreal. And we do in fact have many ideas on how to improve the existing system, just not the time to tinker with them at the moment. The first target pose is rather necessary because the ragdoll needs to get relatively close to the final FTF position. If the ragdoll was drastically different, the blend into FTF could be horrendous.

There are many different poses that the fighter can land in, and one of the things we want to explore more is why they land in the same ones so often when there are other possibilities.

We may also bring back full ragdoll KOs that don't allow dives (maybe on some overkill threshold?). Or try to mocap new FTF positions to flesh out the options. Or look into different blending and animation options for the KO'd fighter so we don't need to do a full pose match, keeping more ragdoll. There are many things we want to try, but none of them are trivial in the slightest. Hopefully some of them come to fruition sooner than later, as we know it's a very common ask from the community.

[haduken]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

When are you getting a decent finish the fight, you ask? I'd say you've got one of the best ones ever created in a virtual simulation of MMA that's ever been done. I think that's pretty decent.

[Mr_Cool_Ice]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

Yes, there are indeed parallels to the snapshot system seen in Unreal. And we do in fact have many ideas on how to improve the existing system, just not the time to tinker with them at the moment. The first target pose is rather necessary because the ragdoll needs to get relatively close to the final FTF position. If the ragdoll was drastically different, the blend into FTF could be horrendous.

There are many different poses that the fighter can land in, and one of the things we want to explore more is why they land in the same ones so often when there are other possibilities.

We may also bring back full ragdoll KOs that don't allow dives (maybe on some overkill threshold?). Or try to mocap new FTF positions to flesh out the options. Or look into different blending and animation options for the KO'd fighter so we don't need to do a full pose match, keeping more ragdoll. There are many things we want to try, but none of them are trivial in the slightest. Hopefully some of them come to fruition sooner than later, as we know it's a very common ask from the community.

Thanks for the reply. I'm happy to hear you guys are exploring options!

Maybe the answer is a combination of full ragdoll with new FTF positions to blend better. Looking at UFC 2 ragdoll KO highlights, I noticed there aren't that many final resting positions for the KO'd fighter. It's almost always some variation of on the back, side, or stomach, with knees bent or not. I'm not sure how many FTF target poses you currently have, but maybe blending into them from ragdoll positions could still look ok most of the time.

However, I imagine that any solution that requires new mocap is the most expensive, so maybe the reduced the pose match/more ragdoll idea is the most realistic. Could something like this also be applied to the FTF sequences? I.e. KO'd fighters go into a constrained ragdoll state when they are being ground 'n' pounded.

[TheMostEerned]

Re: Patch 2.01 now out on PS4

Yes, there are indeed parallels to the snapshot system seen in Unreal. And we do in fact have many ideas on how to improve the existing system, just not the time to tinker with them at the moment. The first target pose is rather necessary because the ragdoll needs to get relatively close to the final FTF position. If the ragdoll was drastically different, the blend into FTF could be horrendous.

There are many different poses that the fighter can land in, and one of the things we want to explore more is why they land in the same ones so often when there are other possibilities.



We may also bring back full ragdoll KOs that don't allow dives (maybe on some overkill threshold?). Or try to mocap new FTF positions to flesh out the options. Or look into different blending and animation options for the KO'd fighter so we don't need to do a full pose match, keeping more ragdoll. There are many things we want to try, but none of them are trivial in the slightest. Hopefully some of them come to fruition sooner than later, as we know it's a very common ask from the community.

My thing is Ragdoll post patch in UFC 3, FTF, and ref interactions were perfect. Look at this montage.

UFC 3 KOs

https://youtu.be/BEStt83-0OQ

Go back to this and we will all be pleased.

In UFC 1, you had tkos from non KOed opponents, and refs stopped it.

Why were these things taken out? Elbows and hammer fists are a must also for GNP.

Remove the cage KO position and the KO sequence will be perfect.

Move on to seated cage position
Full guard
Half guards
Mount

Knee on ground getting up
Half guards
Side control
Back mount

Add Back Doubke Under Hooks in the clinch and also add cage takedown struggle positions where a fighter is constantly trying for a double or single and not getting it, but still not letting it go.

Keep up the good work. Also Fix some Models
TJ Dillashaw body needs and update, smaller head + hair
Jose Aldo - Shorter torso, much more muscle
Max Halloway - shorter Torso, add vale judo trunks, lighten skin
Alex Volkanovski - shorten torso and make more muscular. He is stocky
Henry Cejudo - Make more stocky and muscular, add vale judo shorts and ankle tapes.

Thanks for the effort