The Fall of EA Sports

[TheDarkCityDevil]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

I didnt lump you in. I didnt name you at all actually.

I wonder how long you hold out though. Like I said, 20 or 30 bucks is still revenue for EA. I hope you hold out forever given how much time you spend here complaining. That would be better than most of the people here.

How many hours have you clocked on your copy so far?

[Atgail]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

What about the other two games though?


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No clue about NHL, and as far as soccer/football goes I believe Winning Eleven has done great in the EU and JP. Even tho FIFA has sold twice their numbers, the Konami games have still sold enough to move over 100 million units.

Still, America seems like a hard place to sell FIFA or Winning Eleven as we don't care about the sport as much compared to the rest of the world.


(Of note, Konami lost the UEFA Champions League license to EA b/c they got outbid iirc. I wonder how much EA bid to get that exclusive contract.)

[Clinch Control]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

No clue about NHL, and as far as soccer/football goes I believe Winning Eleven has done great in the EU and JP. Even tho FIFA has sold twice their numbers, the Konami games have still sold enough to move over 100 million units.

Still, America seems like a hard place to sell FIFA or Winning Eleven as we don't care about the sport as much compared to the rest of the world.


(Of note, Konami lost the UEFA Champions League license to EA b/c they got outbid iirc. I wonder how much EA bid to get that exclusive contract.)

So Konami can make a realistic, unlicensed soccer game and still move over 100 million copies.

Granted, soccer is super popular worldwide and MMA is not quite there yet. But, could another company with actual passion for our sport, come into the fray here and find similar success with an unlicensed MMA product?

[mikenyc721]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

I look at this like I looked at nba games when nba live was the basketball game everyone wanted and talked about I thought ea was the only developer who can make a good basketball game until I played 2k and then I realized wow this is way better then any nba live I ever played so I believe if another developer took a shot at a mma game a lot of people may be surprised to see what they might be able to do.

[rsl1]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

So Konami can make a realistic, unlicensed soccer game and still move over 100 million copies.

Granted, soccer is super popular worldwide and MMA is not quite there yet. But, could another company with actual passion for our sport, come into the fray here and find similar success with an unlicensed MMA product?

It's also not really unlicensed in the traditional sense, you might not be aware but it's not really a fair comparison if you call it that so just wanted to point that out.

It has a lot of popular leagues licensed such as Serie A/Italian, La Liga/Spanish etc to name a few. It also has a lot of south American leagues and competitions and they make a huge amount of sales in that region as a result.

Even the unlicensed stuff isn't really unlicensed, the player names, likenesses and faces are in there, it's just the unlicensed team names and kits that aren't. They provide a full edit mode to rename the teams and an image import to replace the kits & badges too so a few minutes work and you have it looking fully licensed.
It would be the equivalent of having a generic 'MMA Fighting' game but then having all of the fighters likenesses, names etc in the actual game.

I'm not trying to pick holes in your argument but just wanted to point out that it isn't unlicensed in the traditional way and add context.

Finally, I am not sure when the 100 million copies goes back to, but the game has been around in various forms since the 90's and for several years in the PS2 era was the premier football/soccer game and was way more popular than FIFA.

[Clinch Control]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

It's also not really unlicensed in the traditional sense, you might not be aware but it's not really a fair comparison if you call it that so just wanted to point that out.

It has a lot of popular leagues licensed such as Serie A/Italian, La Liga/Spanish etc to name a few. It also has a lot of south American leagues and competitions and they make a huge amount of sales in that region as a result.

Even the unlicensed stuff isn't really unlicensed, the player names, likenesses and faces are in there, it's just the unlicensed team names and kits that aren't. They provide a full edit mode to rename the teams and an image import to replace the kits & badges too so a few minutes work and you have it looking fully licensed.
It would be the equivalent of having a generic 'MMA Fighting' game but then having all of the fighters likenesses, names etc in the actual game.

I'm not trying to pick holes in your argument but just wanted to point out that it isn't unlicensed in the traditional way and add context.

Finally, I am not sure when the 100 million copies goes back to, but the game has been around in various forms since the 90's and for several years in the PS2 era was the premier football/soccer game and was way more popular than FIFA.

Thanks for adding that information. I do think another developer could come in with competing licenses for ONE FC and Bellator and use those licenses in a similar way that Konami uses La Liga, Series A/Italiana licenses though.

[rsl1]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

Thanks for adding that information. I do think another developer could come in with competing licenses for ONE FC and Bellator and use those licenses in a similar way that Konami uses La Liga, Series A/Italiana licenses though.

That's kinda what EA MMA did back in the day when Undisputed was king. Nice to be able to use the Strikeforce fighters and Randy Couture as well.

It had it's issues but it was a lot of fun to play with the potential for one punch KO's and the different rulesets/rings etc.

I appreciate what Geoff and others have said about it not being that easy and costly to implement, plus this game is a UFC game not generic MMA game, but it would be cool to be able to choose different rulesets and rings/cages in this like we could in EA MMA.

[Therebelyell626]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

I borrowed the game from my buddy, he’s a triage nurse and as you can imagine they have their hands full right now. But he hasn’t asked for the game back so that goes to show you how much he misses it lol

I have had about two weeks with the game (including EA access), and honestly I am glad I didn’t buy it. I was having a blast with the game at first. I think that mostly had something to do with the newness of the clinch mechanics. But once that wears off I think most people are going to realize what UFC 4 is. A very shallow and basic attempt at improving on past iterations. Maybe with the switch to new consoles maybe EA just felt it wasn’t worth the effort to improve the model when they are going to be building something different in a years time anyway. But anyone who can honestly sit there and tell me that UFC 4 is a vast improvement over 3 Is out of their minds in my opinion. I am going to sit this one out and wait on madden

[Clinch Control]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

I borrowed the game from my buddy, he’s a triage nurse and as you can imagine they have their hands full right now. But he hasn’t asked for the game back so that goes to show you how much he misses it lol

I have had about two weeks with the game (including EA access), and honestly I am glad I didn’t buy it. I was having a blast with the game at first. I think that mostly had something to do with the newness of the clinch mechanics. But once that wears off I think most people are going to realize what UFC 4 is. A very shallow and basic attempt at improving on past iterations. Maybe with the switch to new consoles maybe EA just felt it wasn’t worth the effort to improve the model when they are going to be building something different in a years time anyway. But anyone who can honestly sit there and tell me that UFC 4 is a vast improvement over 3 Is out of their minds in my opinion. I am going to sit this one out and wait on madden

I agree. I had fun at first, but then you realize how shallow it is. I also 100% agree they phoned this one in since it's the last game on the current consoles and they'll have to restart in a year anyway.

I'm waiting on Madden as well. Feel free to add me when you get Madden. Might be nice to play a game or two with another like mind who doesn't put up with this nonsense from the sport we love.

[TheRizzzle]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

That's b/c fans specially NFL fans only care about playing as their team, not how good the actual game is. That's why Madden could do a roster release and not much else year to year while still selling well.

You literally just described why your argument doesn't make sense for at sports title you think this might be possible with.

That is the number one driver of a sports title. People wanting to play as their favorite teams and players from real life.

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[Clinch Control]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

You literally just described why your argument doesn't make sense for at sports title you think this might be possible with.

That is the number one driver of a sports title. People wanting to play as their favorite teams and players from real life.

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He's describing how NFL fans are the exception, that will buy the licensed product regardless of whether it is an inferior product.

Also implying, that this would not necessarily be the case for other sports games.

[TheRizzzle]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

He's describing how NFL fans are the exception, that will buy the licensed product regardless of whether it is an inferior product.



Also implying, that this would not necessarily be the case for other sports games.

They are absolutely not an exception to the rule. The rule applies pretty consistently across the board for sports fans that like playing video games.

If that wasn't the case the licenses wouldn't be worth what they are and the brand leader in each sports video game wouldn't be the one that has the pro license.

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[Clinch Control]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

They are absolutely not an exception to the rule. The rule applies pretty consistently across the board for sports fans that like playing video games.

If that wasn't the case the licenses wouldn't be worth what they are and the brand leader in each sports video game wouldn't be the one that has the pro license.

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I'm not necessarily trying to argue against that, just trying to restate his point.

I agree, the licenses are worth something for sure.

And I agree that a completely unlicensed game could have a very uphill battle. However, with this dump of a game we have, if a competing licensed One FC and/or Bellator game came out with better gameplay, it could do pretty well.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

They don't have to call it anything.

There are a lot of people that are buying that dump in a box so that's all that matters to them in the end.

They took it too far, though. And this is coming from someone who's been trying hard to defend EA, because I think people on here are sometimes misinformed and too tactless in their criticism.

There's a line when prioritizing profits. We've heard ad nauseum that the sim, OS-style fanbase is a small part of this game's, and really any sports game's fanbase. And this is true, as I've reminded many people.

But before, say in UFC 3, it felt like maybe the ratio (of features in the game) was maybe 50-50 after all the patches, favoring casual players vs sim players. Not ideal for us, but workable. Especially when many, if not all of the patch changes were in favor of a realistic gameplay experience.

UFC 4 is closer to 80-20. Maybe worse. And the only reason I say that is because there's so much stuff that I feel like (I could be wrong) nobody at all was asking for that also kills realism immersion.

This includes the pre-fight taunts, Kumite/backyard mode, the weird timed posture-up system, no more Perk levels (you either have the perk or you don't, no Level 1, 2, etc.), no more Bruce Buffer intros (I think, could be wrong), mandatory weight classes in ranked, hiding the number of losses for each user on leaderboards, new submission system, etc.

I didn't mention things like the visual effects when rocked, because that can be toggled off. If it can be changed at the player's discretion, it's fair game IMO.

The point is that it feels like they went way overboard. I think very few people would have been unhappy if those features I listed were absent. Very few. Like, low single-digit percentage, if that.

And it's really a shame, because they didn't have to. Yes, casuals hated certain realistic things in UFC 3, but unless you're making a 100% arcade sports game (which I hope I can confidently say this franchise is not), casual players will always have something they dislike. Just like unless your game is 100% sim, players who favor realism will always have things they dislike. And even if you went 100% in either direction, the fanbase you favored might still complain.

Yeah, it's about money. But it can also be about not leaving one segment of your fanbase out in the cold, even if it means possibly, maybe, slightly reduced profits. That's what makes us human, is that we want to do right by our fellow humans without being 100% driven by dollar signs. I do think it makes sense to prioritize profits, but not to this extent.

And yes, I realize that big business isn't about things like that, but the fact the devs like Geoff exist proves that people like that are out there. Guys like Mike Wang and Da Czar, who work on the NBA 2K series, are other examples.

Keep in mind I don't know squat about business, but I think EA was blinded by a refusal to lose or compromise the casual audience, and they went to extreme, unnecessary lengths to avoid doing so and maximize profits. And I also think they didn't have to, because nobody would go hungry if we didn't have to fight in a Mortal Kombat arena every five fights in quick match. I would guess that there wouldn't be a huge difference in profits (relatively speaking) without those features I mentioned earlier that no one asked for.

People talk about "You guys are gonna buy the game anyway," and that does apply to some people on here, but that also applies to the casuals. EA didn't have to cater to them to the extent that they did for UFC 4. Period. They already had a lot of their money by giving them created fighters in ranked, deeper CAF mode, and the ability to play the game like a beat-em-up that was already present in UFC 3.

That's all just in my opinion, of course. If I'm wrong, I welcome anyone to correct me (and I say that sincerely).

[manliest_Man]

Re: The Fall of EA Sports

They took it too far, though. And this is coming from someone who's been trying hard to defend EA, because I think people on here are sometimes misinformed and too tactless in their criticism.

There's a line when prioritizing profits. We've heard ad nauseum that the sim, OS-style fanbase is a small part of this game's, and really any sports game's fanbase. And this is true, as I've reminded many people.

But before, say in UFC 3, it felt like maybe the ratio (of features in the game) was maybe 50-50 after all the patches, favoring casual players vs sim players. Not ideal for us, but workable. Especially when many, if not all of the patch changes were in favor of a realistic gameplay experience.

UFC 4 is closer to 80-20. Maybe worse. And the only reason I say that is because there's so much stuff that I feel like (I could be wrong) nobody at all was asking for that also kills realism immersion.

This includes the pre-fight taunts, Kumite/backyard mode, the weird timed posture-up system, no more Perk levels (you either have the perk or you don't, no Level 1, 2, etc.), no more Bruce Buffer intros (I think, could be wrong), mandatory weight classes in ranked, hiding the number of losses for each user on leaderboards, new submission system, etc.

I didn't mention things like the visual effects when rocked, because that can be toggled off. If it can be changed at the player's discretion, it's fair game IMO.

The point is that it feels like they went way overboard. I think very few people would have been unhappy if those features I listed were absent. Very few. Like, low single-digit percentage, if that.

And it's really a shame, because they didn't have to. Yes, casuals hated certain realistic things in UFC 3, but unless you're making a 100% arcade sports game (which I hope I can confidently say this franchise is not), casual players will always have something they dislike. Just like unless your game is 100% sim, players who favor realism will always have things they dislike. And even if you went 100% in either direction, the fanbase you favored might still complain.

Yeah, it's about money. But it can also be about not leaving one segment of your fanbase out in the cold, even if it means possibly, maybe, slightly reduced profits. That's what makes us human, is that we want to do right by our fellow humans without being 100% driven by dollar signs. I do think it makes sense to prioritize profits, but not to this extent.

And yes, I realize that big business isn't about things like that, but the fact the devs like Geoff exist proves that people like that are out there. Guys like Mike Wang and Da Czar, who work on the NBA 2K series, are other examples.

Keep in mind I don't know squat about business, but I think EA was blinded by a refusal to lose or compromise the casual audience, and they went to extreme, unnecessary lengths to avoid doing so and maximize profits. And I also think they didn't have to, because nobody would go hungry if we didn't have to fight in a Mortal Kombat arena every five fights in quick match. I would guess that there wouldn't be a huge difference in profits (relatively speaking) without those features I mentioned earlier that no one asked for.

People talk about "You guys are gonna buy the game anyway," and that does apply to some people on here, but that also applies to the casuals. EA didn't have to cater to them to the extent that they did for UFC 4. Period. They already had a lot of their money by giving them created fighters in ranked, deeper CAF mode, and the ability to play the game like a beat-em-up that was already present in UFC 3.

That's all just in my opinion, of course. If I'm wrong, I welcome anyone to correct me (and I say that sincerely).

I agree on everything except for the Bruce Buffer thing. ( I don't own the final game so I don't know how it's handled) but those entrances/intors etc. shouldn't be present on the online section of the game.

They should be there, for the offline, to show that realistic depiction of the sport, but in online fights, it's like adding extra loading time.

Every UFC game I play online, I want to go from one fight to the other as fast as possible. I don't want to waste 5 min of my life watching those entrances, because my opponent started matchmaking and then got up and left to do his chores.

I also like the changes in the select a Fighter. It's quicker and wastes less time, than scrolling through the whole roster to get to the fighter you want.