Re: Removed features

[ryangil23]

Re: Removed features

They’ll have the gall to use it as advertising for UFC 5 (if there is a UFC 5) and say they’ve put in these “new” features which they had before and removed.

[manliest_Man]

Re: Removed features

You can do transitions from the postured up positions in the full game.

Wrong, you cannot do any if you are the guy on the bottom, you can no longer do arm traps and transition reversals or submissions from there.

The quarter-circle motions didn't make your transitions faster but irreversible (yet still deniable). They're still in UFC 4.

Wrong, even on legacy controls, the transitions occur by flicking, instead of holding, so no holding = no half moon transitions.

You're the first person to bring up leg locks when it comes to praising UD 3's grappling. The grappling is more dynamic now than it was in 3 albeit a bit unbalanced.

Wrong.
Everyone prefers Undisputed 3's more active and realistic ground game, locking onto your opponent is more realistic, than gamey mechanics such as lay still on top of your opponent, block a transition to get grapple advantage to transition or spam transition fakes...

Pretty weak comparison. Furthermore, FIFA is the casual/arcade football game as opposed to PES. Thus, people who want a more realistic football experience play PES. Did you even know that?

I grew up playing PES, FIFA was the simulator back then and PES was more arcadey. Don't know the state of either of those games nowadays, besides the fact that FIFA is a pay-to-win microtransaction Ultimate Team that costs 70$ and plays as a free-to-play.

It's not a weak comparison at all. In order for them to implement this over simplistic ground game, they sacrificed any hope for a realistic or proper ground game.


My only experience with EA UFC 4 was with the BETA and those ground game changes were the biggest backwards steps I immidietly noticed. If your opponent postures up, you cannot pull them down or attempt a get-up. You have to wait and block till they get automatically pulled down or automatically reversed if you time a strike block.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Removed features

Wrong, you cannot do any if you are the guy on the bottom, you can no longer do arm traps and transition reversals or submissions from there.

Yes you can lol. There are normal transitions and you can get sweeps etc from catching/dodging strikes.

Wrong, even on legacy controls, the transitions occur by flicking, instead of holding, so no holding = no half moon transitions.

A dev literally said it's in the game lmao.

Wrong.
Everyone prefers Undisputed 3's more active and realistic ground game, locking onto your opponent is more realistic, than gamey mechanics such as lay still on top of your opponent, block a transition to get grapple advantage to transition or spam transition fakes...

A lot of high level players have said how broken and dumbed down Undisputed 3's grappling is. You don't know how Undisputed 3's grappling meta works because there was barely a competitive scene.

I grew up playing PES, FIFA was the simulator back then and PES was more arcadey.

Probably one of the most delusional takes I've ever heard here. It's so blatantly wrong it makes me question what you consider realistic or simulation.

My only experience with EA UFC 4 was with the BETA and those ground game changes were the biggest backwards steps I immidietly noticed. If your opponent postures up, you cannot pull them down or attempt a get-up. You have to wait and block till they get automatically pulled down or automatically reversed if you time a strike block.

And I'm telling you those are in the full game. They work differently than they did in UFC 3 but you can, for example, do a manual get-up transition if your opponent postures up. You didn't have to say you haven't played the actual game for me to know because your complaints are so out-of-touch.

[mannyonelover]

Re: Removed features

Wrong, you cannot do any if you are the guy on the bottom, you can no longer do arm traps and transition reversals or submissions from there.



Wrong, even on legacy controls, the transitions occur by flicking, instead of holding, so no holding = no half moon transitions.


Wrong.
Everyone prefers Undisputed 3's more active and realistic ground game, locking onto your opponent is more realistic, than gamey mechanics such as lay still on top of your opponent, block a transition to get grapple advantage to transition or spam transition fakes...




I grew up playing PES, FIFA was the simulator back then and PES was more arcadey. Don't know the state of either of those games nowadays, besides the fact that FIFA is a pay-to-win microtransaction Ultimate Team that costs 70$ and plays as a free-to-play.

It's not a weak comparison at all. In order for them to implement this over simplistic ground game, they sacrificed any hope for a realistic or proper ground game.


My only experience with EA UFC 4 was with the BETA and those ground game changes were the biggest backwards steps I immidietly noticed. If your opponent postures up, you cannot pull them down or attempt a get-up. You have to wait and block till they get automatically pulled down or automatically reversed if you time a strike block.

That right there is absolutely ridiculous why do you have to wait and can’t pull the opponent down manually!!


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Removed features

Yes you can lol. There are normal transitions and you can get sweeps etc from catching/dodging strikes.




A dev literally said it's in the game lmao.



A lot of high level players have said how broken and dumbed down Undisputed 3's grappling is. You don't know how Undisputed 3's grappling meta works because there was barely a competitive scene.



Probably one of the most delusional takes I've ever heard here. It's so blatantly wrong it makes me question what you consider realistic or simulation.



And I'm telling you those are in the full game. They work differently than they did in UFC 3 but you can, for example, do a manual get-up transition if your opponent postures up. You didn't have to say you haven't played the actual game for me to know because your complaints are so out-of-touch.

He's right about the FIFA and PES analogy.

Back in the day , way back PES was arcade and FIFA was sim . Somewhere along the line it changed.

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Removed features

By the way ,I was in practice mode today and khabib had me is back side and he threw a hammer fist to the back of my head once.

Make of that what you will.

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Willemsport]

Re: Removed features

-They removed the girls with the round boards? No more cutscene of that.

(i did not see it in career)

Also some real fighters female/male have unique fighting hairstyles. But we can't use them for face editor. It's so weird, they are in the game allready. it's not so hard to put them in the face caf editor.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: Removed features

A lot of high level players have said how broken and dumbed down Undisputed 3's grappling is. You don't know how Undisputed 3's grappling meta works because there was barely a competitive scene.

Just want to chime in here on this bit.

It was broken online because of the punch flick exploit. Otherwise, it was completely fine and very well balanced. Skill based and fair on both ends. It was up to the player to hold the opponent down, stats didn't play such a huge factor.

Dumbed down? Simple compared to EA UFC 2/3/4? Yes, but that doesn't mean it's worse. UFC 4's might be very complex but how much of that is ever on display in high level fights? Barely any. The strategy is always the same, because against a good player, you're forced to play one way and one way only: the way the game wants you to play.

It all devolves into what feels more like a turn based system that Undisputed, ironically, whereas Undisputed's system ebbed and flowed between the different positions and was a real chess match in every area.

As I mentioned earlier, it was very balanced and gave the defender a fair chance in every position to escape, if they were good enough. It was very skill based and relied less on great stats to do some of the work for you. The only thing stats influenced was transition speed and how many times you could block consecutive transitions.

UFC 2/3/4 is literally just sit in guard, throw rabbit punches, camp on denials and throw a few fakes for each position and then finally transition because you have enough GA. It's awful.

Undisputed 3 let you use many different grappling strategies and they all worked, even against great players (who didn't use the punch flick). You could use real knowledge of MMA to be successful in all areas of the game (when someone is off balance with a big strike, you can shoot at get them down easily).

[Clinch Control]

Re: Removed features

Removed features:

- Ability to transition back to a neutral clinch from many clinch positions such as:

- Submissive fighter in side clinch, has no ability to grapple back to a neutral clinch.

- Submissive fighter in muay thai clinch, has no ability to grapple back to a neutral clinch.

- Submissive fighter who is back clinched, has no ability to grapple back to a neutral clinch.

- Submissive fighter with back against the cage in single under, has no ability to grapple the opponent's back into the cage.

From all of these clinch positions, one must escape the clinch. Boy, for having a new clinch system, they sure don't want us using it!

Oh, and

- No actual over under INPUT

- No double underhooks

[skz1904]

Re: Removed features

I grew up playing PES, FIFA was the simulator back then and PES was more arcadey. Don't know the state of either of those games nowadays, besides the fact that FIFA is a pay-to-win microtransaction Ultimate Team that costs 70$ and plays as a free-to-play.

It's not a weak comparison at all. In order for them to implement this over simplistic ground game, they sacrificed any hope for a realistic or proper ground game.

You are very likely confusing International Superstar Soccer with International Superstar Soccer Pro, which... fair enough. The names are pretty much the same, but the games are nothing alike. Goal Storm on the PlayStation is the first game in the ISS Pro/PES series. International Superstar Soccer was the arcade football game that debuted on the SNES and lasted until the PS2 era with ISS 3.

Those aren't developed by the same people or are the same series.

If you're not confusing the games, then I have no idea what you consider arcade or simulation, because FIFA and ISS Pro/PES are opposite ends of that spectrum, and FIFA is the arcade one. Always has been.

As far as the topic goes, this is normal EA behavior. They have been taking out features from their sequels for over a decade. Ask the Madden guys how they feel. The usual excuse is engine transitions. Not the case here, maybe the team didn't have enough time or resources, maybe EA just told them those aren't important. Who knows.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Removed features

He's right about the FIFA and PES analogy.

Back in the day , way back PES was arcade and FIFA was sim . Somewhere along the line it changed.

Sent from my Infinix X604 using Operation Sports mobile app

I'm not gonna go back and play games from 15-20 years ago but this definitely was not the case.

The game-changer was 1997’s International Superstar Soccer Pro – follow-up to the well-received early PlayStation kickabout, Goal Storm, and namesake of 1994 SNES title International Superstar Soccer. Developed by Konami Tokyo with a new 3D graphics engine, it sought to challenge Fifa by offering an organic, improvisational experience rather than something tightly structured around specific moves and tactics. Where its rival encouraged fast, thrilling goal-fests, ISS slowed things down, rewarding patient approach play and crisp passing, facilitated by a groundbreaking approach to tactical variety. The game included nine in-match strategy options such as zone press and overlap, emphasising the idea of simulation over arcade-style action.

Pro Evolution Soccer's recent rejuvenation is welcome, but the series will be hard-pushed to replicate its stature of years gone by. PES 4 and 6 could have easily found themselves on this list, but the fifth iteration does enough to take the crown. --

-- Tight controls gave you the opportunity to ping the ball around with gusto. With fast movement and an eye to pass, the opposition's defence would often have a momentous task ahead of them. First-touch control was also added, while improved shooting mechanics highlighted a title that ushered in an increased sense of realism.

Not so much that it became a simulation, mind you.

This entry was the momentous culmination of that decade-long process. It wasn’t just that it nailed the basics of passing and shooting in a lifelike manner, but its nuances too: fabulously intelligent off-the-ball movement, unique running styles for stars such as Beckham and Henry, the addition of quick free-kicks, and so much more. The one downside to its close-to-faultless approximation of real football? The weight of its excellence has become an unshiftable albatross around the neck of modern-day PES.

The game made timing and build up play important. No longer could you hold the sprint button and watch the ball stuck to your players feet. Now, the ball began to have a mind of its own, bouncing off of shins and ricocheting away after a bad tackle. Building up a string of 11 or 12 passes in an attempt to tempt a defender out of position became an important way of splitting open defences, and nailing that cross at the right moment became an art form. Whilst the competition did start to catch up towards the end of this Generation, PES1 became the model of which to follow.--

--FIFA on the other hand really struggled to find its feet this generation. Whereas PES was graceful in its simplicity, FIFA began to try and incorporate gimmicks into its gameplay. The Free Kicks became an arcade-like minigame within itself, with power gauges and spin counters to put on the ball. FIFA 05 brought in the ‘First Touch’ system designed to allow players to perform tricks and skill moves with the flick of an analogue stick. It wasn’t great. Does anyone also remember the Off The Ball feature from FIFA 04? With the click of a button, three players off the ball got highlighted with a separate button icon, and a quick press would ping the ball directly to that player. It was basically Madden, turning your central midfielders into quarterback-like playmakers.

Unfortunately however, these gimmicks never seemed to enable FIFA to offer any real competition to the now all-dominant Pro Evo. It wasn’t until FIFA really began to simplify its game mechanics, and concentrate on the basic play-by-play football that it really began to make a comeback.

Pro Evo were playing total football this generation, and bamboozled FIFA with its Brazilian-like confidence.

[Painless taken]

Re: Removed features

I just seriously want to know what the budget and dev time for this was. I knew it was a cash grab for the end of the gen so EA can complete the contract and not have to develop for next gen console(aka do actual work) But this game is worse than I imagine. The lack of care and love for this is so glaring from the stripped features to the awful glitches/bugs

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Removed features

Veteran I'll give you your own reply since the last one was so off-topic from the thread.

Just want to chime in here on this bit.

It was broken online because of the punch flick exploit. Otherwise, it was completely fine and very well balanced. Skill based and fair on both ends. It was up to the player to hold the opponent down, stats didn't play such a huge factor.

I don't know if you can just completely overlook exploits though. Doing that ignores what your actual game experience will be like.

Dumbed down? Simple compared to EA UFC 2/3/4? Yes, but that doesn't mean it's worse. UFC 4's might be very complex but how much of that is ever on display in high level fights? Barely any. The strategy is always the same, because against a good player, you're forced to play one way and one way only: the way the game wants you to play.

It's definitely a problem and makes it worse if the skill ceiling is too low. I haven't watched much high level UFC 4 gameplay but I think UFC 3 had limited grappling because GNP was weak and relied on you completely outclassing your opponent to be effective. We'll have to see whether grappling will be more prevalent now since GNP is more effective.

It all devolves into what feels more like a turn based system that Undisputed, ironically, whereas Undisputed's system ebbed and flowed between the different positions and was a real chess match in every area.

As I mentioned earlier, it was very balanced and gave the defender a fair chance in every position to escape, if they were good enough. It was very skill based and relied less on great stats to do some of the work for you. The only thing stats influenced was transition speed and how many times you could block consecutive transitions.

UFC 2/3/4 is literally just sit in guard, throw rabbit punches, camp on denials and throw a few fakes for each position and then finally transition because you have enough GA. It's awful.
Undisputed 3 let you use many different grappling strategies and they all worked, even against great players (who didn't use the punch flick). You could use real knowledge of MMA to be successful in all areas of the game (when someone is off balance with a big strike, you can shoot at get them down easily).

I feel this is a bit of a reductionist sentiment and could be applied to any most games. For example, this is how our beloved GameChanger ZHunter described Undisputed's grappling.

"Punch flick, get to side control and dish out as much damage as possible before they block a strike and transition. Rinse and repeat.

Even if you exclude the punch flick exploit(Which THQ didnt get rid of for the duration of the entire series) It was easier to master because it required much less from the players. If you didnt want someone to move, you could literally hug the stick to the side for their 1st 3 transition attempts. After that you hail mary with a reversal attempt that wasnt very hard to time anyways.

There wasn't nearly as much room for player error as the current system, and because of that it was easier to pick up and easier to master. Every position played nearly the same, excluding side control and BSC."

While I think Undisputed had pretty shallow grappling, it excelled in its presentation and I'd still like to see Undisputed's posture mechanic in the current games.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: Removed features

Veteran I'll give you your own reply since the last one was so off-topic from the thread.



I don't know if you can just completely overlook exploits though. Doing that ignores what your actual game experience will be like.



It's definitely a problem and makes it worse if the skill ceiling is too low. I haven't watched much high level UFC 4 gameplay but I think UFC 3 had limited grappling because GNP was weak and relied on you completely outclassing your opponent to be effective. We'll have to see whether grappling will be more prevalent now since GNP is more effective.



I feel this is a bit of a reductionist sentiment and could be applied to any most games. For example, this is how our beloved GameChanger ZHunter described Undisputed's grappling.

"Punch flick, get to side control and dish out as much damage as possible before they block a strike and transition. Rinse and repeat.

Even if you exclude the punch flick exploit(Which THQ didnt get rid of for the duration of the entire series) It was easier to master because it required much less from the players. If you didnt want someone to move, you could literally hug the stick to the side for their 1st 3 transition attempts. After that you hail mary with a reversal attempt that wasnt very hard to time anyways.

There wasn't nearly as much room for player error as the current system, and because of that it was easier to pick up and easier to master. Every position played nearly the same, excluding side control and BSC."

While I think Undisputed had pretty shallow grappling, it excelled in its presentation and I'd still like to see Undisputed's posture mechanic in the current games.

I understand what you mean about exploits, but the grappling system as it was intended is way better than anything EA has ever made in terms of playablity and fun. This includes EA MMA, which has the worst ground game ever in a serious MMA game. It's so easy, that you can play it blindfolded with terrible stats.

I mean, UFC 1 had the L-defence but I don't consider it part of the grappling system. It was an issue online but I don't think about when I evaluate what the system was like.

Here's my thing, though, if you remove the punch flick, that side control issue is gone. You can block strikes forever and while damage bleeds through slowly, the issue doesn't really happen on sim energy either.

So are we looking at the game's grappling in the ranked experience, or just the mechanics as they were intended? Fakes were never a part of EA UFC 2's design, but the ranked community used them and they became an actual part of the game (they're mentioned in the UFC 4 tutorial).

If we are looking at it from a ranked perspective, then yes, UD3's grappling was busted. However, when you had two willing/non exploiting players, it provided a significantly better and more realistic experience than UFC 2/3/4 under the same conditions.

The reversal problem is easily worked around. You simply fake your transition (which is undeniable, transitions have two stages in Undisputed), and bait out their reversal, leaving you with a window to transition.

More player room for error doesn't matter when nobody ever ends up making those errors. In practice, UFC 4's grappling isn't that much deeper than UD3, with the exception of bridging transitions. I don't count GA, it's just a meter to increase transition speed by punching or faking and actively contributes to the awful ranked playstyle.

The funny thing is, UFC 4's grappling could be improved ten-fold in one patch, the fix is so easy. Simply remove timed denials and implement a preemptive denial system with 3/4 consecutive denials max, and make reversals a flick again like Undisputed. You'd only need one new animation, the reversal flick. The rest can be repurposed to work.

If you don't want someone to move, you lock your guard down. That's realistic and Undisputed 3 let you do that. However, it wasn't possible to do it forever. It was balanced. In EA UFC, good luck trying to transition against any high level player without going through the motions of building GA and sitting in one position for 15 seconds at a time. It's awful and I don't know how anyone can enjoy it or find it realistic in any way. There's no strategy to it.

[Sleep Doctor]

Re: Removed features

It seems more work went into removing features rather than adding new ones, going by this thread.

Really disappointing even after I expected disappointment ever since I saw gpd was moving on, they still managed to disappoint me more.

Im going to just stick to ufc 3 until we get some features brought back and a price cut.

I suggest you just vote with your wallet in the meantime that they're chasing the casuals who will quit this game after a week or so.