Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

[TheRizzzle]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

Alright.

If you guys have added Brock Lesnar then I have officially ended my boycott.

See? Was that so hard?

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[SlimmerFredette]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

LOL. Come on now. Lets quote him correctly. That tweet is about his dislike of Covington.

Lol I mean he said he doesn't like MMA enough...to watch Colby fight (and speak). So, he only likes MMA when a certain person is fighting? Not a great sentiment to hear from game leadership don't you think?


Imagine someone saying, I don't like the NBA enough to watch..idk, Giannis play? Colby is at the top of the sport lol and is one of the more fun lay&pray wrestlers in the fight game imo...maybe I'm reading into it too much, but it seems like a silly statement to make as a creative director of an MMA game lol.

[aholbert32]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

Lol I mean he said he doesn't like MMA enough...to watch Colby fight (and speak). So, he only likes MMA when a certain person is fighting? Not a great sentiment to hear from game leadership don't you think?


Imagine someone saying, I don't like the NBA enough to watch..idk, Giannis play? Colby is at the top of the sport lol and is one of the more fun lay&pray wrestlers in the fight game imo...maybe I'm reading into it too much, but it seems like a silly statement to make as a creative director of an MMA game lol.

I think you are reading too much into it.

I've been a huge MMA fan for almost 15 yrs but I hated watching Jon Fitch fight. I avoid his fights like the plague. That doesnt mean I dont know enough or dont love the sport enough. It just means I hate watching Jon Fitch fight.

I feel the same way about Colby when he talks. I immediately turn when he is interviewed for alot of reasons. That doesnt man i dont love the sport.

[SlimmerFredette]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

I think you are reading too much into it.

I've been a huge MMA fan for almost 15 yrs but I hated watching Jon Fitch fight. I avoid his fights like the plague. That doesnt mean I dont know enough or dont love the sport enough. It just means I hate watching Jon Fitch fight.

I feel the same way about Colby when he talks. I immediately turn when he is interviewed for alot of reasons. That doesnt man i dont love the sport.

lol no no I understand that completely, but the way I read the tweet is: I don't really like MMA, and when colby fights/speaks, that exacerbates what I already dislike about the sport.

What you said is completely reasonable and completely different from that tweet. I think if he meant what you think he means, then he would've just said he hates when Colby fights and speaks. What else could the preface of the tweet mean then...?
You just said you hate when Colby speaks, but that's not what Brizzo said.

all in all imo its indicative of bad leadership when that is the opinion of the person at the helm.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

That his loathing of Colby fighting/talking outweighs his enjoyment of MMA whenever Colby is involved.

I think you have your heels in the sand and will take anything that you feel supports your view and use it as such. This feels like something that more than enough people feel when it comes to Colby. Why doesn't he just come out and list what he doesn't like? Probably not in his best interest as a leader of the company to drag down a fighters skill or to get into the toxicity of topics Colby goes on about.

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[Morgan Monkman]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

Of course there is going to be negative reaction to this game, not expecting that and not wanting to see honest opinions of people is to your own detriment. The discord is heavily moderated even more so then OS. Lmao at that devs excuse

[SlimmerFredette]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

That his loathing of Colby fighting/talking outweighs his enjoyment of MMA whenever Colby is involved.

I think you have your heels in the sand and will take anything that you feel supports your view and use it as such. This feels like something that more than enough people feel when it comes to Colby. Why doesn't he just come out and list what he doesn't like? Probably not in his best interest as a leader of the company to drag down a fighters skill or to get into the toxicity of topics Colby goes on about.

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yeah whatever, done getting into it. It's not that important. I see what you and Alberto mean, but I think the way it's worded there's no other way to read it. Others who have replied to him said similar things. Wasn't really my main point anyway.

[Skynet]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

I am not trying to deflect, and I'm not trying to say our game is perfect. Here are some personal gripes of my own. Some of which I feel very strong about indeed:

- I hate how bad our onboarding is (my personal biggest gripe, and why I've spent so much of my own time building nearly everything in practice mode).

- I think we've focused our modes updates too much on risky/expensive new ideas vs building out ones we already know people want and don't have.

- I don't like that we removed so many features from UFC 3->4 with CAFs, with justifications for how it impacted online. 4 steps forward for 3 steps back is not worth it in this industry. People haaate when you take things away from them, and the justification wasn't enough.

- I don't like how we sometimes prioritize previously fleshed out ideas over incoming feedback (though definitely not always the case)

- I don't like how much we push larger feature updates during post-launch to potential future games.

However! I absolutely get heated when people with little insight or understanding of the industry and reality try to speak like they know things they do not, or when they think a very objective matter is subjective and their opinions overrule facts. So here are some amazing things our team has done, that is absolutely true:

+ We have the most complex, deep, and authentic damage, health event, and stamina system a video game has ever seen. Even if the tuning isn't perfect in every scenario, it's mind boggling the amount of detail here.

+ We have by far the most incredible and technically advanced animation pipeline in MMA history, possibly of any video game. Honestly, getting two humans to fight and grapple up close to the camera with the visual fidelity we have is ****ing INCREDIBLE.

+ Our roster, and the detail and customization that goes into it is immense. Are there more fighters in the sport that we don't have? Yes. Do we still offer the most accurate representation of the most diverse group of fighters in MMA? Yes, we do.

+ We have an incredible history of post-launch support, for free, with content and features. Certainly within sports, but even within the larger industry. I've loved having the ability to support this game as much as we do.

+ Have we engaged in more casual friendly content, which brings thousands of users both closer to the sport, and also the gaming community? Yes. That's awesome.

+ Do we have one of the most passionate, driven, and healthy dev teams in the industry? Yes. From the many stories of the industry as a whole, outside of people with "EA Sucks" blindness, we are in fact one of the best places to work. Good workplaces makes for good work.

+ We have created a ton of really fun and interesting visual customization options that a very significant amount of people use and enjoy. We are, at heart, an entertainment industry, and just because you don't get the same value out of this as someone else doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

+ Our leadership, EA and UFC, trusts us enough to allow for significant amounts of risk-taking while trying to build up a new franchise. Chasing incredible new technologies and content that they hadn't planned for, and we have delivered on that almost every time. The amount of freedom and trust given to us is incredibly rare in this industry, and our game has benefitted from it.

+ We have rebuilt massive parts of the game from the ground up with every iteration, greatly improving the immediate quality but more importantly the long-term potential of those features and areas as they mature. At great cost. UFC has never had the 'this is just a roster update' reputation that other sports game get (but usually don't deserve).

+ While it has not always been the case, the number of design meetings and decisions made with a 'user first' mindset has really improved over the years. Again, sometimes those users are not you, but it is very true that your feedback is heard and listened to. Sometimes we simply disagree, are too overloaded already, or just make the wrong call.

I know that people have gripes with the game both in direction and with what is/is not there, and that's totally fair. But there is some seeerious entitlement issues going on here and elsewhere.

For all those lucky enough to enjoy the Harry Potter world like myself, from my side of the fence, it's very much like Dudley not getting enough presents for his birthday and throwing a tantrum. Regardless of how big and expensive and impressive the many he got were.

Have your criticisms. Stick to them. They totally matter, and I hope we can address them. I really do. Just please, people, try to make interacting with you not like pulling teeth. And to those who do give honest and reasonable feedback, thank you. Thank you very much.

[Skynet]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

More facts, so people can perhaps not spread so much misinformation:

Many of the people on the dev team, including leadership, are avid fans of the sport. That includes Hayes. Fight cards and highlights are constantly talked about, and noted for potential future dev opportunities.

Much of the dev team - engineers, animators, designers, etc. - are actively practicing martial artists, or have been in the past. Many of whom train together and have for years. I myself have practiced Tai Kwon Do, BJJ, Kickboxing, and Boxing for many years, and can still be utterly outclassed by many of the people I work with.

The cost of adding features you want is at least 10x what you think it is, and usually turns out to be 2-3x what we hope it is. Game dev is suuper expensive and difficult. Especially when you have a simulation as ridiculously complex as ours. We have senior devs on the team who come from other games and backgrounds, and they routinely comment on the remarkable depth and complexity of our simulation engine. Sadly, this makes it kind of hard to work on for new people...

Our dev team, from the very top to the very bottom, is the farthest thing from lazy you can imagine. In all my years on this team, I have never once questioned the work ethic of someone on this team. And I most certainly have questioned it elsewhere. Our industry and culture doesn't survive or abide by that.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] he called some of you Dudley Dursley

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[Windtear]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

I am not trying to deflect, and I'm not trying to say our game is perfect. Here are some personal gripes of my own. Some of which I feel very strong about indeed:

- I hate how bad our onboarding is (my personal biggest gripe, and why I've spent so much of my own time building nearly everything in practice mode).

- I think we've focused our modes updates too much on risky/expensive new ideas vs building out ones we already know people want and don't have.

- I don't like that we removed so many features from UFC 3->4 with CAFs, with justifications for how it impacted online. 4 steps forward for 3 steps back is not worth it in this industry. People haaate when you take things away from them, and the justification wasn't enough.

- I don't like how we sometimes prioritize previously fleshed out ideas over incoming feedback (though definitely not always the case)

- I don't like how much we push larger feature updates during post-launch to potential future games.

However! I absolutely get heated when people with little insight or understanding of the industry and reality try to speak like they know things they do not, or when they think a very objective matter is subjective and their opinions overrule facts. So here are some amazing things our team has done, that is absolutely true:

+ We have the most complex, deep, and authentic damage, health event, and stamina system a video game has ever seen. Even if the tuning isn't perfect in every scenario, it's mind boggling the amount of detail here.

+ We have by far the most incredible and technically advanced animation pipeline in MMA history, possibly of any video game. Honestly, getting two humans to fight and grapple up close to the camera with the visual fidelity we have is ****ing INCREDIBLE.

+ Our roster, and the detail and customization that goes into it is immense. Are there more fighters in the sport that we don't have? Yes. Do we still offer the most accurate representation of the most diverse group of fighters in MMA? Yes, we do.

+ We have an incredible history of post-launch support, for free, with content and features. Certainly within sports, but even within the larger industry. I've loved having the ability to support this game as much as we do.

+ Have we engaged in more casual friendly content, which brings thousands of users both closer to the sport, and also the gaming community? Yes. That's awesome.

+ Do we have one of the most passionate, driven, and healthy dev teams in the industry? Yes. From the many stories of the industry as a whole, outside of people with "EA Sucks" blindness, we are in fact one of the best places to work. Good workplaces makes for good work.

+ We have created a ton of really fun and interesting visual customization options that a very significant amount of people use and enjoy. We are, at heart, an entertainment industry, and just because you don't get the same value out of this as someone else doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

+ Our leadership, EA and UFC, trusts us enough to allow for significant amounts of risk-taking while trying to build up a new franchise. Chasing incredible new technologies and content that they hadn't planned for, and we have delivered on that almost every time. The amount of freedom and trust given to us is incredibly rare in this industry, and our game has benefitted from it.

+ We have rebuilt massive parts of the game from the ground up with every iteration, greatly improving the immediate quality but more importantly the long-term potential of those features and areas as they mature. At great cost. UFC has never had the 'this is just a roster update' reputation that other sports game get (but usually don't deserve).

+ While it has not always been the case, the number of design meetings and decisions made with a 'user first' mindset has really improved over the years. Again, sometimes those users are not you, but it is very true that your feedback is heard and listened to. Sometimes we simply disagree, are too overloaded already, or just make the wrong call.

I know that people have gripes with the game both in direction and with what is/is not there, and that's totally fair. But there is some seeerious entitlement issues going on here and elsewhere.

For all those lucky enough to enjoy the Harry Potter world like myself, from my side of the fence, it's very much like Dudley not getting enough presents for his birthday and throwing a tantrum. Regardless of how big and expensive and impressive the many he got were.

Have your criticisms. Stick to them. They totally matter, and I hope we can address them. I really do. Just please, people, try to make interacting with you not like pulling teeth. And to those who do give honest and reasonable feedback, thank you. Thank you very much.

As a software dev myself, I don't doubt majority of your point are honest and I don't follow the EA hating bandwagon but just want talk about the subject where it matters, the game itself, and where you getting problems with the public and you & your team still don't seem to realize.

I'm glad you guys actually took time and look at all the -
some of them most people don't even notice. credit to that

Now on those what you think is +

"+by far the most incredible and technically advanced animation pipeline in MMA history...."

Now this is where you guys still had your heads stuck in the sand, and this kind blind arrogance is exactly why you guys still don't understand why vast majority players hate your game.

The physics animation foundation, the source of all UFC 1-4's problem, where your physics based animation always make action on its own rather than follow players command, this alone is enough to dismiss your claim on "the greatest xxx" horse crap. And your users average review scores told you that. Search on the forum for a bit and you will find everyone and their mother make threads about "the control is so unresponsive", "the input delay is so bad" etc. etc.

No they aren't all casuals, they have the right to not enjoy massive input delay, moves executed on its own or physics triggered donkey werid sceniros that breaks the fight.

honestly speaking, the physics animation pipeline in UFC1-4 is the most broken, buggy, unresponsive dumpster fire that should never existed in a competitive fighting game. In a competitive fighting game like UFC, where players invested alot of their time & emotion, no one would happy to accept the outcome where they got punished for a moves they didn't execute or act much later than intended. again, vastly majority of your players express their feeling through user reviews, not forum whining.

And then, your "players feedback" part, it scares me more, because looks like you people don't scrape data from your own product(the proper way to improve your software where you able to scoop out the real user experience) instead, you decided to listen to simple minded fools who only wish to crate the game into their own style. Do you know the current take down defense success rate? Crucifix position TKO rate? what fighters people use the most? etc?

Lastly I just want say game tested in your limited environment doesn't represent the same experience when it goes live to the public

And most importantly, you don't proclaim you "built the greatest xxx" until vast majority players admit is. Honest, watching players spam side lunge and sway to broke the animation is the most low IQ thing I'ver felt/seen in my entire life. really don't know where you guys got the confident to make this "greatest/most advanced" claim.

[Suntan Superman]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

Probably the user base.

As a casual MMA fan who bought the game because he enjoyed the trial, simply reading this forum once a week makes me want to interact as little as possible with the people here.

[Blackman316]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

The cost of adding features you want is at least 10x what you think it is

No it's not. Please explain how adding colored trunks to fighters is anything more than altering a couple of numbers on the texture color. Plus you had the assets already. I don't think it's been remade from the ground up.

Please explain how visualising judge scores, which should be in the data model somewhere (or otherwise your decisions would be random - I wouldn't be surprised...), is anything more than a referral to the data in question.

It's true that the game has eventually become a truly complex engine, and I'm sure people appreciate that. It deserves praise. But don't BS us with these statements. The highlight videos on the internet aren't exactly a feather in the cap of the animation system...

But thanks for being transparant.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

My two cents that no one asked for.

It's....... interesting. Skynet talked about the toxic and entitlement atmosphere around here and looking at some of the responses some of you either don't understand or don't care about the constructive part of criticism. I'm not talking about people shouldn't be making sure their voices are heard for the Vive la résistance, but just in a simple conversation are you capable of going back and forth without trying to "A ha!" someone?

All that **** aside, it's still wild to me that some of y'all try to tell that man how his job works. Especially those of you that talk about your background but have nothing to the level of this game on your resume. That's like a day care instructor trying to tell me how teaching special ed works because they have "experience" with kids. FOH lol.


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[TheRizzzle]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

Listen I wanted a roster that was more compelling than the last game's roster so that I'd feel like I got my money's worth.

That didn't happen initially PLUS they took out the ability to swap trunks, judges scorecards and stuff like that without making significant changes to event mode and didn't add anything like a universe mode that I'd been banging the drum for.

I never claimed they made a bad game. I claimed they didn't create a value add that was worth it to me to stop playing 3 and pay money to switch over to 4.

But then they added Brock Lesnar, who is the guy who got me to watch MMA for the first time and eventually become obsessed with it.

Roster problem solved for my tastes.

That's all anyone can do as a consumer. Find your line and when they cross it, buy the game and live with your decision. Everything else is sort of irrelevant after you give them your money.

If you care about other stuff, you had 10 hours to make a decision before purchasing.



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