Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

[Leiqueros]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

You nailed it perfectly. It's the same with me. I've played every MMA game since the dawn of MMA gaming until my fingers bled. With 4, I'm all set after a handful of bouts. Removing clinch fighting/cage grinding sucks an entire dimension of the game out. Thats the biggest thing for me. Other things like the inability to have total control over our cafs (stats, moves sets) is a huge thumbs down. 22 caf slots? Really? Its hard to look at this game and say it was improved upon (even though there are clearly improvements in some areas) and upgraded when there are such glaring omissions from the previous release.

Totally agree on everything.

The thing about the grip in this game is so disconcerting that it even becomes disturbing, and that is that you can barely make a grip and give 3 blows in a row, since the game completely automatically stops the fighter, with this it makes blows as important as For example, throwing muay thai blows is almost a fallacy because they do not come to anything, since on the third attempt it stops.

[Pedro_Guap]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

Maybe you should read his post again? He structured his reasoning quite well actually. Though I disagree with him, I fail to see what you're trying to prove here?

As people said before: you're not being "tricked". There's a 10hour demo. If you haven't figured out what the game is about in that time, you're doing something wrong. They might "trick" you into preordering, but that's completely on you man...


edit: Oh, I see you're a modder. If it's against the rules of the forum than I get your intention.

You are correct. "Tricked" is the wrong word.

Really doesn't change my message.

Listen, I'm not the only person that finds EAs approach to gaming development and customer support freaking abhorrent.... This was the most hated company in the country a few years ago.

Their tactics are gross (release unfinished products for full price and then patch to completion) and corporate culture is a muddy example of capitalism at it's worst.

Even the devs of No Man's Sky did right by their customers eventually. And they acknowledged they f'ed up the entire time.

These devs claim to be happy with their product as long as they've put a hard day of work in. No admission that the game has these broken features and will not commit to fixing.

Listen, I don't spend my day actively hating these people. But when i, and many others, think about their approach to gaming; it inspires disdain, resentment and frustration (as much as you can experience this in gaming).

So yes, I hate the way this company operates, how they treat the customer and product they have produced. Anyone contributing to their effort knows what they are apart of.

[aholbert32]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

You are correct. "Tricked" is the wrong word.

Really doesn't change my message.

Listen, I'm not the only person that finds EAs approach to gaming development and customer support freaking abhorrent.... This was the most hated company in the country a few years ago.

Their tactics are gross (release unfinished products for full price and then patch to completion) and corporate culture is a muddy example of capitalism at it's worst.

Even the devs of No Man's Sky did right by their customers eventually. And they acknowledged they f'ed up the entire time.

These devs claim to be happy with their product as long as they've put a hard day of work in. No admission that the game has these broken features and will not commit to fixing.

Listen, I don't spend my day actively hating these people. But when i, and many others, think about their approach to gaming; it inspires distain, resentment and frustration (as much as you can experience this in gaming).

So yes, I hate the way this company operates, how they treat the customer and product they have produced. Anyone contributing to their effort knows what they are apart of.

Hate is a strong *** word for a video game.

I bought WWE2k20. It is an absolute mess. It was bug filled and 2k made no attempt to fix 99% of the issues in that version. The game was so bad that they took a year off to try to fix the issues.

There was no beta. There was no preview where I could play the game for hours before buying it. I didnt see people trashing the game for weeks before it came out. I bought the game based on how solid past years were and basically threw away $60.

Now, do I HATE the WWE 2k devs? No. Do I resent them? No. ....Its 60 ****ing dollars.

EA made the game they wanted to make. You knew before the game came out what kind of game it was going to be. You put your hopes in a corporation (that basically told you what the game was going to be) that it would change the game in patches......a corporation that you just said was one of the most "hated in the world" a few years ago.

Look, I get that people want this series to be different than what it is but at this point, yall are just screaming into the void. UFC 4 sold well by all accounts and it is the 3rd worst version of the game imo. Its further away from what people here (and others online) wanted and the game was a big enough success that EA and the UFC reupped for four more games.

Time to adjust your view of what this series will be. Its also time that you guys stop throwing money at a series and getting upset when they give you the game they said they would.

[kehlis]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

Maybe you should read his post again? He structured his reasoning quite well actually. Though I disagree with him, I fail to see what you're trying to prove here?

As people said before: you're not being "tricked". There's a 10hour demo. If you haven't figured out what the game is about in that time, you're doing something wrong. They might "trick" you into preordering, but that's completely on you man...


edit: Oh, I see you're a modder. If it's against the rules of the forum than I get your intention.

His post wasn't at all against the rules and was very well written aside from the only part of his post that I disagree with that I'll mention below.

The two parts of his post that I bolded seemed to contradict themselves.

You are correct. "Tricked" is the wrong word.

Really doesn't change my message.

Listen, I'm not the only person that finds EAs approach to gaming development and customer support freaking abhorrent.... This was the most hated company in the country a few years ago.

Their tactics are gross (release unfinished products for full price and then patch to completion) and corporate culture is a muddy example of capitalism at it's worst.

Even the devs of No Man's Sky did right by their customers eventually. And they acknowledged they f'ed up the entire time.

These devs claim to be happy with their product as long as they've put a hard day of work in. No admission that the game has these broken features and will not commit to fixing.

Listen, I don't spend my day actively hating these people. But when i, and many others, think about their approach to gaming; it inspires distain, resentment and frustration (as much as you can experience this in gaming).

So yes, I hate the way this company operates, how they treat the customer and product they have produced. Anyone contributing to their effort knows what they are apart of.

I still have a hard time agreeing that blame is on the devs.

If you don't like their work for the nuts and bolts of the game, I wouldn't have much of a problem with that (please note, I am NOT a UFC gamer and can't speak to how well I think the game represents the sport).

What I read from your post was that you don't like the direction the game has gone. To me, that isn't a reason to hate the devs but instead would be a reason to hate those who advise the devs on what they want to see in the game.

I come to this forum with a very objective viewpoint as someone who doesn't play the game (or even care for it for that matter).

If you hate an aspect of the game that the devs directly inpact (Such as grappling), that would be something to take up with the devs. And from what I've seen from those discussion, they have always been very upfront about their intent (more so than ANY other dev team that has come to this site).

If your issue is the direction of the game, I don't think it's fair to assume that's on the devs.

Your post that I quoted started with hating the devs in the first sentence, and ended with hating EA.


And yes, with how I said it, I was the dick. Sorry about that. Wasn't the best day for me.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

Listen, I'm not the only person that finds EAs approach to gaming development and customer support freaking abhorrent.... This was the most hated company in the country a few years ago.

Their tactics are gross (release unfinished products for full price and then patch to completion) and corporate culture is a muddy example of capitalism at it's worst.

The fact that EA won some internet award for the worst company in America because people disliked Mass Effect 3's ending while your country was recovering from a recession caused by greedy banks and investment banks shows how meaningless that award is.

Also, Chiquita funded Colombian terrorists to get cheap banana farms. I'm pretty sure that's a worse example of capitalism than giving you a 10-hour trial to a game before purchase. That's just me though.

As Kehlis implied, if you really want to hate video game companies your wrath should be aimed more at publishers and shareholders than devs.

[ryangil23]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

I’d like to know what the testing process is like because there are probably a lot of things you’d miss by yourself just playing against the AI or whatever. Players usually find bugs and exploits fairly quick because they aren’t programmed and don’t do everything you’re “supposed” to do. It could go the other way as well where something might not work against the AI because they’d be able to read it whereas it’s a lot harder for a player to.

[aholbert32]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

I’d like to know what the testing process is like because there are probably a lot of things you’d miss by yourself just playing against the AI or whatever. Players usually find bugs and exploits fairly quick because they aren’t programmed and don’t do everything you’re “supposed” to do. It could go the other way as well where something might not work against the AI because they’d be able to read it whereas it’s a lot harder for a player to.

Internal testing isnt just against the AI. Testers play each other also. Select gamers outside of the internal testers also get to play alpha versions of the game against other gamers. Also as you know, there is a beta that is open to the public.

[ryangil23]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

Internal testing isnt just against the AI. Testers play each other also. Select gamers outside of the internal testers also get to play alpha versions of the game against other gamers. Also as you know, there is a beta that is open to the public.

The beta was closed after 2 days. As for the players, to be blunt, they must be really bad. They’re probably those kind of players who say clinch spam isn’t a problem because they can’t get above division 7 and they throw head kicks at each other from about 10 feet away. I only that because it seems like a lot of things don’t seem to be noticed until after launch. If not then it must be how they’re running the studios if they can’t get to work on these issues until after launch if they were found in testing.

[Pedro_Guap]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

Internal testing isnt just against the AI. Testers play each other also. Select gamers outside of the internal testers also get to play alpha versions of the game against other gamers. Also as you know, there is a beta that is open to the public.

No matter the amount of prerelease testing, they have no idea which flaws/exploits the public will find after they've handled the game for thousands of hours.

I expect there to be issues and corrections made to these games post-launch.

However, every year it's the same story. The game gets released with practically unlimited stamina, same outdated character models used, balancing corrections made in previous games totally disregarded.

There is no excuse for these issues. Not one. No reason for the game to be in this condition. Period.

But to your point, once again, this is my fault for not saying "No" last August.

As I've said, and some have claimed these words will be proven false, it will never happen again.

[aholbert32]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

The beta was closed after 2 days. As for the players, to be blunt, they must be really bad. They’re probably those kind of players who say clinch spam isn’t a problem because they can’t get above division 7 and they throw head kicks at each other from about 10 feet away. I only that because it seems like a lot of things don’t seem to be noticed until after launch. If not then it must be how they’re running the studios if they can’t get to work on these issues until after launch if they were found in testing.

I hate answering these questions because when I give people correct information, they treat it as if I’m defending EA.

I honestly don’t give a **** about testing or anything related to online play. With that said, there are several TOP level players who were playing alpha versions of this game. I’m not going to call out anyone specifically but some of them are high profile top players who now use their YouTube channels to bash the game but were quiet as hell during testing.

As for why things get noticed after launch, it’s obvious. After launch, you have hundreds of thousands of people playing the game. During the first month, people play the **** out of the game and because of that are more likely to find bugs.

Unless EA decides to hire thousands of testers to play alpha and beta versions of the game, post launch will always be the most effective way to find bugs.

I don’t care what sports game you play, you want to play a complete game with the major bugs fixed....wait 6 mos after release. If you buy it before then, you are paying 60 bucks to be a bug tester.


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[TheRizzzle]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

The beta was closed after 2 days. As for the players, to be blunt, they must be really bad. They’re probably those kind of players who say clinch spam isn’t a problem because they can’t get above division 7 and they throw head kicks at each other from about 10 feet away. I only that because it seems like a lot of things don’t seem to be noticed until after launch. If not then it must be how they’re running the studios if they can’t get to work on these issues until after launch if they were found in testing.

Almost all the players who buy this game can't get above Division 7. I dont even know if Division 7 is an insult or not.

So maybe they weren't testing the game with that audience in mind and the definition of "is clinch spam a problem" is actually only relevant to a small handful of highly skilled gamers.

My point is that they are trying to balance more than just the E-Sport's YouTube community experience and pulling a lot of threads can have unexpected consequences for people who don't fit that mold.

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[ryangil23]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

Almost all the players who buy this game can't get above Division 7. I dont even know if Division 7 is an insult or not.

So maybe they weren't testing the game with that audience in mind and the definition of "is clinch spam a problem" is actually only relevant to a small handful of highly skilled gamers.

My point is that they are trying to balance more than just the E-Sport's YouTube community experience and pulling a lot of threads can have unexpected consequences for people who don't fit that mold.

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To me it seems like common sense that removing the clinch denial would result in it being spammed relentlessly if somebody wanted to. I don’t know, maybe I’m expecting too much here.

[TheRizzzle]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

To me it seems like common sense that removing the clinch denial would result in it being spammed relentlessly if somebody wanted to. I don’t know, maybe I’m expecting too much here.

I mean...yes. But what's the denial IRL? Pushing the guy away? Not being in range? You can do all those things in the game. Could it be a little harder to grab someone? Sure. But this idea we need a whole new set of inputs to do a shrug/push away...you can push them now.

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[aholbert32]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

To me it seems like common sense that removing the clinch denial would result in it being spammed relentlessly if somebody wanted to. I don’t know, maybe I’m expecting too much here.

I think you are. There are many aspects of this game that arent designed for people who play this game at a high or even medium level. Many aspects are designed for the player who doesnt play this game competitively at a higher level or enough to even know or care about clinch spam.

[Granbyroll]

Re: Hate is a Strong Word... But it's Appropriate

The biggest two problems with this game are tutorials and depth. If the playerbase was better educated not so much would appear to be cheese. This can be remedied with the same style tutorial MK11 has. The tutorial garnered heavy praise. It works. It covers everything basic to advanced and has an actual pathway to high level play if theyre dedicated.

It shows you whats being taught with the correct button rhythm and lets you complete it. It teaches you many fighting game concepts and gives you knowledge to be successful in not only mk11 but most fighting games. Many of those concepts are relevant to ufc 4 as well. Steal their format. Noone knows how exchanges work. Or how to use frame data or stopping power. Ufc 4 has great potential to be someones first fighting game


Unless you know your playing a fighting game you wouldn't know footsies is important too. The tutorial should do more than just teach ufc 4 as a fighting game but also the sport of mma. Most players don't even make reads. They dont know what to look for. A good tutorial would make all the difference for this game. Also more meters inside practice mode. Show us the frames. Show us everything you devs see under the hood. Like left and right arm damage. Have a block breaking section. A hit stuns section. A footsies section. And tie them to the sport. Because all fighting games are based on real fighting concepts.


As far as depth its hard to believe your playing an mma game where you can knock a guy ten times or kick his legs off and it doesn't offer you any significant advantage. Its too much. Even casuals would appreciate quicker finishes. It makes the game feel so clunky. Also there is no double unders or ways to use the cage effectively. Theres no feeling of setting stuff up on the ground like on the feet. I dont blame the clinch besides of lack of depth. I blame lack of education for the clinch. Tap or snap has seen what I've shown on the gdc. Copy it and people won't view the games mechanics as being oppressive.