Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

[Wet Bandit]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

You'd have an interesting time trying to make the case that those two fights would have gone differently 3 years ago, if that's what you're implying here.

Yeah, it's not like in the last three years Sylvia has gotten three unimpressive decisions, been choked out by Big Nog, and got absolutely destroyed by Couture. You're right, he's the exact same fighter that was on top of the UFC heavyweight division for a few years knocking guys out left and right. Nothing has changed.

and look- Big Nog is one of my favorite all-time fighters, but you don't get to pull the "a lot can change in 3-4 years" card only when it suits you. If you pull that card out at all, you HAVE to use it on Big Nog first.

But Nog has been fighting top-level guys. He recently choked out Sylvia, who is apparently one of Fedor's top contenders. I don't need the 'a lot can change in 3-4 years' card with him. He's actually fought serious fighters in the last 3 years and shown where he's at. He's still very good. Not as great as he once was, but he's proven to still be a very formidable fighter.

[Wet Bandit]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

You're right- I didn't address your main point. I saw logical flaws in the evidence you were using to back it up, and I attacked them instead of the main point.

I almost pulled the plug right here, but I'm going to proceed cautiously.

You could be right- Josh's game may have diminished in the last few years, and we might not know it because of the level of competition he's faced during that time - but we won't know that until we know that. And right now, we have no reason to expect it.

There's a nuance to my point that you're missing. I didn't say that Barnett's skills diminished.

I said that in the course of many years, many things can change. I even listed a number of examples. Again, for example, maybe a fighter's skills do diminish or they get a step slower as they age, as has seemingly happened with Mirko. Or maybe other fighters emerge and take over the division, as has happened with Matt Hughes.

Like I said before, there are a number of reasons a fighter might not be ranked today what he was ranked three years ago. Things change.

As to whether I would expect Barnett would be ranked lower today than he was 3, 4, 5 years ago, for whatever reason, yeah, probably. With a few notable exceptions (like Fedor), the proven landscape today looks a lot different than it did years ago. A lot of the old guard, guys like Liddell, Hughes, Hendo, Nog, Crocop, Sylvia, Silva, Franklin have been bumped back and forced to make room for guys like St. Pierre, Rashad, Forrest, Machida, Shinya Aoki, Jon Fitch, the reincarnation of Mir, Marquardt, etc.

In fact, the one guy, besides Fedor, from the old guard that remains probably the most unscathed is Josh Barnett. Maybe he's had the right idea all along.

[SHO]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

Easy match, lets all hope affliction dies.

Booooooo. I hope Affliction stays alive and improves. Even if does die, it doesn't guarantee that Fedor comes to UFC.

And outside of Mir and maybe Brock, there is no HW in the UFC that can hang with Fedor.

[Wet Bandit]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

Booooooo. I hope Affliction stays alive and improves. Even if does die, it doesn't guarantee that Fedor comes to UFC.

And outside of Mir and maybe Brock, there is no HW in the UFC that can hang with Fedor.

Nog obviously could. He has before. He'd certainly have a lesser chance of beating Fedor now, but he still probably has more of a chance than Sylvia did.

And I think Randy would be interesting. Strong wrestler, very smart fighter. I could see Randy controlling Fedor and riding out a victory. I'm not saying it's likely, just feasible. And Randy's biggest weakness at this point, his chin, would be less of an issue against Fedor who isn't the knockoutiest of fighters.

And Brock's interesting, because he's got the most potential for a quick defeat, but I think he also has the most potential to beat Fedor.

Regardless, I think we can all agree that the well pretty much dries up for Fedor after the Barnett fight, so it'd be great to see him get in the UFC. Even if he still easily dominates there, it'd be nice to see him get more recogniition for it.

[filmguy1974]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

Yeah, it's not like in the last three years Sylvia has gotten three unimpressive decisions, been choked out by Big Nog, and got absolutely destroyed by Couture. You're right, he's the exact same fighter that was on top of the UFC heavyweight division for a few years knocking guys out left and right. Nothing has changed.

Nothing about Sylvia has changed- he's still the same one dimensional fighter now that he was a few years ago when he was knocking out nobodys left and right in a UFC HW division that was almost completely devoid of talent. The only thing that's changed is your perception of him. He would have been choked out by Nog in 2006. He would have been destroyed by Couture in 2006. Most people realized that at the time- evidently you didn't.

You're not trying to tell me that you seriously think Tim Sylvia would have given Fedor a run for his money a few years ago, are you? Please say yes. I think I kinda' want you to...

But Nog has been fighting top-level guys. He recently choked out Sylvia, who is apparently one of Fedor's top contenders. I don't need the 'a lot can change in 3-4 years' card with him. He's actually fought serious fighters in the last 3 years and shown where he's at. He's still very good. Not as great as he once was, but he's proven to still be a very formidable fighter.

First of all- Big Nog has been fighting top-level guys his whole career- not just since his arrival in the UFC. You don't need to be an MMA expert to see that his reflexes, timing and quickness are sh*t compared to what they were 3-4 years ago. The old warhorse has just been in too many battles. You're putting yourself in a small minority by pretending that this is not the case just to try and help bolster your point. I'm not seeing a whole lot of people running around real MMA forums in denial about the state of Nog's skills these days...

[filmguy1974]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

I almost pulled the plug right here, but I'm going to proceed cautiously.

That's good. I was worried about that. Now I'll be able to sleep tonight.

[filmguy1974]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

Regardless, I think we can all agree that the well pretty much dries up for Fedor after the Barnett fight, so it'd be great to see him get in the UFC. Even if he still easily dominates there, it'd be nice to see him get more recogniition for it.

I totally agree that the well dries up after Barnett. And I'd love to see the Russian in the UFC- but the truth is that I don't think Dana wants him there. I think Dana has a real problem with the idea that most hardcore MMA fans still see Fedor as the best in the world. And Dana's still all butthurt that things broke down the last time he tried to sign him- even though the terms of that contract were ridiculous. Dana's attitude at the time was "you need us more than we need you."

I, for one, am actually kind of glad that Fedor proved Dana terribly wrong on that one.

[filmguy1974]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

Easy match, lets all hope affliction dies.

Why?

Do you hate MMA or something?

[Wet Bandit]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

Nothing about Sylvia has changed- he's still the same one dimensional fighter now that he was a few years ago when he was knocking out nobodys left and right in a UFC HW division that was almost completely devoid of talent. The only thing that's changed is your perception of him. He would have been choked out by Nog in 2006. He would have been destroyed by Couture in 2006. Most people realized that at the time- evidently you didn't.

Well, he did knock out Ricco Rodriguez and Andrei Arlovski.

And here's the thing, at least he was knocking out those nobodies back then. The nobodies he's fought somewhat recently, Jeff Monson, Assuerio Silva, Brandon Vera (who's not quite a nobody, but certainly not a top ten fighter) all went to lackluster decisions.

Also, do you find anything odd about criticizing Sylvia for knocking out mostly nobodies, and yet hailing Arlovski whose recent run has had maybe one borderline top ten fighter in it?

You're not trying to tell me that you seriously think Tim Sylvia would have given Fedor a run for his money a few years ago, are you? Please say yes. I think I kinda' want you to...

Nope. I think Sylvia had little chance years ago, and I think he had even less chance now. I never said otherwise.

First of all- Big Nog has been fighting top-level guys his whole career- not just since his arrival in the UFC.

Never said otherwise.

You don't need to be an MMA expert to see that his reflexes, timing and quickness are sh*t compared to what they were 3-4 years ago.

Never said otherwise.

You're putting yourself in a small minority by pretending that this is not the case just to try and help bolster your point.

Never said that.

I'm not seeing a whole lot of people running around real MMA forums in denial about the state of Nog's skills these days...

And never said that.

I can understand your confusion, though. After all, "not as great as he once was" can be a very tricky turn of phrase to wrap one's mind around.

[Titus001]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

Easy match, lets all hope affliction dies.

Man, just a few more days and you get to see a brand new episode of TUF.
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[filmguy1974]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

Well, he did knock out Ricco Rodriguez and Andrei Arlovski.

Also got KO'ed by AA. They kinda' cancel each other out...

Also, do you find anything odd about criticizing Sylvia for knocking out mostly nobodies, and yet hailing Arlovski whose recent run has had maybe one borderline top ten fighter in it?

I don't recall hailing AA - but I'd be remiss not to mention that both Werdum and Rothwell were top 10 when he fought them. You need to keep in mind, though- that the people who vote on the rankings at Sherdog, MMAWeekly, HDnet, etc.- take more into account than MMAth. They're also looking more subjectively at how crisp a fighter looks in the ring, etc. That might be why your opinions on where fighters should be ranked are so out-of-step with reality.

Nope. I think Sylvia had little chance years ago, and I think he had even less chance now. I never said otherwise.

Yeah- there's a whole lot of "never said otherwise" going on this post. You've implied plenty today without actually coming out and saying it. I'm not going to get caught up in playing cat and mouse with you over that.

[filmguy1974]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

Man, just a few more days and you get to see a brand new episode of TUF.
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It's kind of a guilty pleasure, though- I have to admit. Sure- the reality show has ushered in a tidal wave of morons who put their focus on one organization and it's potty-mouthed owner instead of on the fighters themselves. They've infested every MMA board I know of and have dragged down the average MMA IQ to almost zero as a consequence.

The fighters from the reality show have watered down the UFC's roster for the most part. We've had to sit and watch a lot of mediocre talent from the reality show routinely take PPV slots and paydays away from veteran fighters who deserved it more.

And yet- I still watch the son of a b*tch.

I don't talk about it. I don't even get excited about it. But I still watch it...

[Wet Bandit]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

I don't recall hailing AA

You said Affliction is "the best place for a HW to test himself right now, as the top 3 HW's in the world are there". I'm assuming Fedor, Barnett, and Arlovski.

Yeah- there's a whole lot of "never said otherwise" going on this post. You've implied plenty today without actually coming out and saying it. I'm not going to get caught up in playing cat and mouse with you over that.

Show me where I implied Sylvia was ever a legit contender to Fedor. Seriously. Do it.

Since we both know you can't, let me show you otherwise. Look at this:

"He recently choked out Sylvia, who is apparently one of Fedor's top contenders."

That is me ridiculing the idea that Sylvia could contend with Fedor. That is the only reason I would put the word 'apparently' in that sentence. But I get you might have missed that, it's kinda subtle, I suppose.

But when I said that Big Nog was "not as great as he once was, but...very formidable" and you responded with "you're putting yourself in a small minority by pretending that (his skills have not decreased) just to try and help bolster your point", that's just bull**** on your part. It's either dishonest, or stupid. And I don't mean that in a mean-spirited way, it's just a matter of fact.

Don't pretend like I'm the one playing cat-and-mouse, and please stop trying to read any implifcations into what I say because so far, you've failed miserably at reading what I am explicitly saying.

Now unless there's some new insight injected into this discussion, I'm done. You've destroyed any belief I had in you having honest motives in this discussion. You want to make your points, you want to argue against some caricature of a noob MMA fan who loves the UFC and hates anything Dana White doesn't approve of, and you're willing to build strawmen to do so, so I'm just done man. Take care.

[SHO]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

There is some strange part in me that wants to see Fedor face Bob Sapp....and lose. Only to see the cataclysmic implosion on Sherdog and the MMA world.

And I try to get in the TUF, but I always end up tuning out halfway through. It's just not for me I suppose.

[Wet Bandit]

Re: Affliction 3 - Fedor v. Barnett

And I try to get in the TUF, but I always end up tuning out halfway through. It's just not for me I suppose.

The thing that gets me about the show is the fights obviously don't have commentary. I'm just so accustomed to watching fights with commentary, it's almost an eerie silence watching the fights on TUF.