UFC 100

[PrettyT11]

Re: UFC 100

Here's the deal.
A lot of the die-hard MMA fans don't respect Brock Lesnar for one simple reason. It is not because of his talking after the fight, or that he flicked off the fans (although neither of those things help him) The reason they don't like him, and it's really Dana White's fault, is that they don't feel he earned the right to be where is now. I understand that he is a dominant guy, but he got a title shot against Randy Couture with only three total MMA fights, and a 1-1 record in the UFC. He didn't even have a winning record as a UFC fighter and he was getting a title shot.
Make no mistake about it, he got that title shot cause he could put more a---s in seats, and sell more PPV, not because he was doninant. Lets be honest, who else would Dana give a title shot to who in two UFC fights had one loss, and the other go to decision. Lesnar did dominate Hearing, but he couldn't finish him.
This is why the die hard fans don't like Lesnar. They feel that he was handed the title, without truly earning a shot at it, just to help the UFC's bottom line.
That is why you get all the WWE comparisons, because if you're just gonna take a big name and throw him in a title fight so that you can make more money off of him, then you are crossing the line between true Sport and Sports Entertainment.

He was going to bring that type of hate from some people regardless though. If Dana would have put him in with some cans to begin with and Brock ran through them they all would be screaming he hasn't fought anybody and they are making it easy for him. When they threw legit people at him and he wins and gets a shot at the belt then you have the haters doing what they are doing now.

When you look at it though who else could they have given the title shot to instead of Brock. The division was pretty weak and there wasn't really anybody else you could put in that spot. The fact the Brock won and is dominating and getting better shows that while some may think he got his shot early he deserved it and is proving that he is legit. If you have seen his fights he has dominated them all and his only los was a gift wrapped rookie mistake.

Lastly he isn't the first guy to come in and get title shots early and coming off of a loss or something. BJ Penn got a title shot after being 0 and 1 in the UFC. GSP got a shot after 2 fights. Silva got a shot after one fight. Granted Brock didn't have anything close to the experience they had before the UFC but they still got shots just as early.

[doom41]

Re: UFC 100

He was going to bring that type of hate from some people regardless though. If Dana would have put him in with some cans to begin with and Brock ran through them they all would be screaming he hasn't fought anybody and they are making it easy for him. When they threw legit people at him and he wins and gets a shot at the belt then you have the haters doing what they are doing now.

When you look at it though who else could they have given the title shot to instead of Brock. The division was pretty weak and there wasn't really anybody else you could put in that spot. The fact the Brock won and is dominating and getting better shows that while some may think he got his shot early he deserved it and is proving that he is legit. If you have seen his fights he has dominated them all and his only los was a gift wrapped rookie mistake.

Lastly he isn't the first guy to come in and get title shots early and coming off of a loss or something. BJ Penn got a title shot after being 0 and 1 in the UFC. GSP got a shot after 2 fights. Silva got a shot after one fight. Granted Brock didn't have anything close to the experience they had before the UFC but they still got shots just as early.

I agree some people are going to hate no matter what. But, the die hard fan has been defending MMA against people who have been saying it is an illigitimate sport, like WWE. So when, Brock Lesnar, a former WWE Champion is pushed to the head of the line without even beating a legitimate contender, it makes it harder to defend the sport as a real sport and not just Sports Entertainment.

Your right that the Heavyweight Division is pretty weak, but they could have given lesnar Cheik Congo and then maybe Nog to give him some solid WINS. Now UFC has they problem of having no one to put against Lesnar. Short of landing Fedor, which at this point is unlikely (but if it can be done, Dana will do it), there is no one that will really cause any excitment. Besides Fedor, no one is going to be able to bang with Lesnar for more than a couple of rounds, and Mir & Nog are the only heavyweights with a real shot at pulling off a submission. After seeing Lesnar on Sat. I don't think he's going to let that happen again.

The comparison to the other UFC champs is way off. You need to check your info, because Penn was 3-0 before he got his first title shot, and he was a world Jiu-Jitsu Champion (which IMO is more impressive than WWE Champ). GSP had an MMA record of 9-0 before he got his first title fight, and Silva's MMA record was 16-4 and he had been a champion in other promotions.

I'm not saying that Lesnar is not worthy of having the title, he beat the Champ so he is the Champ. I just think, like a lot of others think, that he should have been made to pay his dues in MMA for at least a couple more fights before handing him a title shot. What's gonna happen when another big name WWE star comes in, or an NFL guy? Are they going to get pushed to the head of the line just to sell tickets. If Lesnar is the only one I'm OK with it, but if it becomes the norm then the UFC will have officially sold out.

[Bona Fide]

Re: UFC 100

I agree some people are going to hate no matter what. But, the die hard fan has been defending MMA against people who have been saying it is an illigitimate sport, like WWE. So when, Brock Lesnar, a former WWE Champion is pushed to the head of the line without even beating a legitimate contender, it makes it harder to defend the sport as a real sport and not just Sports Entertainment.

Your right that the Heavyweight Division is pretty weak, but they could have given lesnar Cheik Congo and then maybe Nog to give him some solid WINS. Now UFC has they problem of having no one to put against Lesnar. Short of landing Fedor, which at this point is unlikely (but if it can be done, Dana will do it), there is no one that will really cause any excitment. Besides Fedor, no one is going to be able to bang with Lesnar for more than a couple of rounds, and Mir & Nog are the only heavyweights with a real shot at pulling off a submission. After seeing Lesnar on Sat. I don't think he's going to let that happen again.

The comparison to the other UFC champs is way off. You need to check your info, because Penn was 3-0 before he got his first title shot, and he was a world Jiu-Jitsu Champion (which IMO is more impressive than WWE Champ). GSP had an MMA record of 9-0 before he got his first title fight, and Silva's MMA record was 16-4 and he had been a champion in other promotions.

I'm not saying that Lesnar is not worthy of having the title, he beat the Champ so he is the Champ. I just think, like a lot of others think, that he should have been made to pay his dues in MMA for at least a couple more fights before handing him a title shot. What's gonna happen when another big name WWE star comes in, or an NFL guy? Are they going to get pushed to the head of the line just to sell tickets. If Lesnar is the only one I'm OK with it, but if it becomes the norm then the UFC will have officially sold out.

Who else would they have given the shot to? Randy came back, and they needed him to fight someone. Mir and Nog were tied up with TUF, so they were a no-go. Gonzaga? Not after Couture just destroyed him his last fight. Kongo? He lost to Herring right before Lesnar beat him. There really wasn't many options, and Lesnar made the most sense.

[Wet Bandit]

Re: UFC 100

The comparison to the other UFC champs is way off. You need to check your info, because Penn was 3-0 before he got his first title shot, and he was a world Jiu-Jitsu Champion (which IMO is more impressive than WWE Champ).

And Lesnar was an NCAA wrestling champion with unrivaled size and athleticism.

You can always tell when someone's got something against Lesnar when they ignore his obvious strengths to play the WWE card.

[doom41]

Re: UFC 100

And Lesnar was an NCAA wrestling champion with unrivaled size and athleticism.

You can always tell when someone's got something against Lesnar when they ignore his obvious strengths to play the WWE card.

He was an NCAA wrestling Champ in 2000 and started his MMA career in 2007. That's seven years between competitions that actually mean something and the outcome is not predetermined. I'm not looking past Lesnar's wrestling background, but don't fool yourself into thinking that his NCAA championship is what got him ushered to the front of the line. If he was not a big name from WWE he would never have gotten that title shot so quickly.

I don't have anything against Lesnar. If you actually read what I said, I think Lesnar earned his title because he beat the champion. He's the champ, he won it, he earned it, he deserves it.

All I'm saying is that he was given the title shot to soon, IMO. You tell me, if you're setting up the fights who looks better: a guy with a 3-1 record (1-1 in UFC), a guy who's 10-0(3-0), a guy who's 22-4-1(5-2), a guy who's 4-0(2-0)? This is what the top heavyweights (NOT Mir, Nog, or Gonzaga) records were leading up to the Lesnar v Couture fight. You tell me what set that 3-1 record ahead of the others, it was his name(the name he got in the WWE) and not his body of work. That is the problem I have with it.

[doom41]

Re: UFC 100

Who else would they have given the shot to? Randy came back, and they needed him to fight someone. Mir and Nog were tied up with TUF, so they were a no-go. Gonzaga? Not after Couture just destroyed him his last fight. Kongo? He lost to Herring right before Lesnar beat him. There really wasn't many options, and Lesnar made the most sense.

I would have given the fight against Couture to Carwin, had Lesnar fight Kongo. Then winner of Mir v Nog gets winner of Couture v Carwin, and Loser gets Lesnar(after he beats Kongo). After that, if Lesnar wins both fights (which I don't doubt he would), he would have a more respectable record and have beat at least one big name (Nog) and two respectable guys (Hearing and Kongo). Even then I think I would give the lose of Couture v Carwin a shot at Lesnar in a "winner gets title shot" fight.

Lesnar is a beast and he will dominate until they can get him and Fedor in the octogon, but don't tell me there weren't more deserving fighters for that fight against Couture. Lesnar got that fight because of his name, not because of what he had done in the octogon.

[Bona Fide]

Re: UFC 100

I would have given the fight against Couture to Carwin, had Lesnar fight Kongo. Then winner of Mir v Nog gets winner of Couture v Carwin, and Loser gets Lesnar(after he beats Kongo). After that, if Lesnar wins both fights (which I don't doubt he would), he would have a more respectable record and have beat at least one big name (Nog) and two respectable guys (Hearing and Kongo). Even then I think I would give the lose of Couture v Carwin a shot at Lesnar in a "winner gets title shot" fight.

Lesnar is a beast and he will dominate until they can get him and Fedor in the octogon, but don't tell me there weren't more deserving fighters for that fight against Couture. Lesnar got that fight because of his name, not because of what he had done in the octogon.

I don't get this. Carwin deserves it after two fights in the UFC with Wellisch and Wain, but Lesnar doesn't after fights with Mir and Herring? Herring is a lot bigger name and more credible win than any Carwin had at the time. This makes no sense.

[MizzouBravesFan]

Re: UFC 100

And to those who say Brock shouldn't have got the chance...what about Anderson Silva, Minotauro, Rampage, and Shogun who all got championship bouts in a very short period of time???

Granted they had all accomplished more in the sport than Lesnar but all had done little in the UFC.

I actually respect what Lesnar has done because he's fought top notch competition since coming into the UFC...no cans. I can see why some would have a problem with it but I personally have zero problems with it.

[XFactah416]

Re: UFC 100

Lesnar was the fight for Randy Couture to make him come back.

You think Randy would've came back to fight Shane Carwin? No. And lol if you'd give the title fight to Carwin over Lesnar at the time. Carwin was 10-0 but over whom? Exactly. This was pre-Gonzaga.

Randy Couture vs Brock Lesnar was a money fight for Randy. Randy isn't stupid. He knows Brock Lesnar has $$$$$$$$$$$ right next to him and fighting him = cash in Randy's pocket.

Blame Randy for Brock getting his title shot. And, at the end of the day, dollar bills dictate a lot of people's lives.

And, you said it yourself. Brock would've mauled the **** out of Kongo for sure. And, Nog would have a chance just because he's Nog, but at the end of the day, I would fear for his safety if he fought Brock, because he would take even more unnecessary punishment.

[PrettyT11]

Re: UFC 100

I would have given the fight against Couture to Carwin, had Lesnar fight Kongo. Then winner of Mir v Nog gets winner of Couture v Carwin, and Loser gets Lesnar(after he beats Kongo). After that, if Lesnar wins both fights (which I don't doubt he would), he would have a more respectable record and have beat at least one big name (Nog) and two respectable guys (Hearing and Kongo). Even then I think I would give the lose of Couture v Carwin a shot at Lesnar in a "winner gets title shot" fight.

Lesnar is a beast and he will dominate until they can get him and Fedor in the octogon, but don't tell me there weren't more deserving fighters for that fight against Couture. Lesnar got that fight because of his name, not because of what he had done in the octogon.

So let me get this straight . You would have given a PPV main event title fight Carwin. At the time the Randy Brock fight was signed Carwin had only one fight in the UFC and had never been seen on TV. So his one win against Wellisch wasmore impressive than Brock's two fights against Mir and Herring?? That makes zero sense what so ever. You can't put a guy ion a PPV main event who had never even been seen on TV before.

His second fight against Wain wasn't until after the Randy Brock fight was signed. Shane was never ahead of brock when it comes to the title picture. When you compare thier fights and names up to that point there is no way possible you can say Carwin was more worthy.

[doom41]

Re: UFC 100

I'll admit that Carwin was probably not any more deserving of a fight with Couture, but I still don't think he was any less deserving (based solely on their MMA performances at that point).

The point that Couture wouldn't have taken any other fight is valid, but I'll bet he would have taken a fight with the winner of Mir v Nog. He's getting ready to fight Nog now. Sure that fight wouldn't have been as big as Lesnar v Couture was, but it still would have been successful. Then you could have thrown Lesnar a couple more fights like I said before, all of which people would keep paying for to see if Lesnar stumbles.

Remember, at no point have I said Lesnar is an undeserving Champion. I've said just the opposite, he is a dominant beast, who beat the champ so he deserves the championship. I just think that the UFC should have given him some more fights first. Not only to get him more respect from the fans, but I also think the big fight with Couture so early was a waste of Lesnar's big name draw.

The problem now is the UFC blew their load with the Couture v Lesnar fight. Lesnar v Mir had good buzz, but only because of their first fight. Now, who are they going to put against Lesnar for a fight that people are really going to care about. Short of landing Fedor, a Couture v Lesnar rematch is the UFC's best hope for a fight anyone will care about (and by care about I mean think that the callenger has any chance at all).

Just watch it won't be long before people a complaining that Lesnar fights aren't any good because there's no competition, just like they were doing after the last few Silva fights. Only Lesnar can't move to another weight class to get a good fight.

They could have built up Lesnar with a couple more fights that everyone would have wanted to see, then given him the title shot, and then given him either Mir or Couture (whoever he didn't beat for the title). That's two more big draw fights for the UFC before we get to the point where we are now. Short of a fight with Fedor, all of the Lesnar fights are going to look pretty much the same. Lesnar ground and pounds the s--t out of the guy until it's stopped (no later than mid 2nd round) with Lesnar winner by TKO. People will watch at first, but it is going to get old real fast.

[Bona Fide]

Re: UFC 100

I don't think Randy wanted to wait an extra 6 months to fight again. Plus, you could imagine all the people bitching about how Randy is back, but he isn't fighting anyone.

The point it is they needed a title challanger for Randy. No one really stood out as super deserving, so they gave it to Brock who was probably the most deserving whether you like it or not. They aren't going to hold up title fights for 6-9 months because they feel that no one is "deserving" of it, and I'm glad they don't.

[judgejudy]

Re: UFC 100

I don't think Randy wanted to wait an extra 6 months to fight again. Plus, you could imagine all the people bitching about how Randy is back, but he isn't fighting anyone.

The point it is they needed a title challanger for Randy. No one really stood out as super deserving, so they gave it to Brock who was probably the most deserving whether you like it or not. They aren't going to hold up title fights for 6-9 months because they feel that no one is "deserving" of it, and I'm glad they don't.

they should have just had a battle royal to decide it, obviously

[jmood88]

Re: UFC 100

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[HMMurdock311]

Re: UFC 100

Haha Mood. That was good. I like the Elbow Drop one in that video.

I like the Hendohoff one I saw the other day.

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