Strikeforce In Talks With Fedor And Management

[Pro Bowler]

Re: Strikeforce In Talks With Fedor And Management

how is it that Mir didn't school brock...he's better in every area except wrestling and being uber-strong.
I dont see how fedor can get a guy off of him that cuts like hell to make 265. You're underestimating brock which is strange after seeing what he did to Mir.
I'd like to see Fedor win, but I think Brock has too big of an advantage...he's a superheavy w/ crazy strenght and good speed. he also has stopping power in his punches.
Fedor vs Mir is a more entertaining proposition imo.

If brock shoots for a takedown, what are you going to do at 230lbs? ...what? He's just too damn big and strong and can fight. just to say again, I'd rather Fedor win, I don't really like brock, but people are in for a rude awakening...the new bread of HW must be skilled and huge. If you're not big enough to take on brock, you gotta either fight smaller heavy's or move down to LHW.

and overeem has a crap chin, so good night.

That's just laughable. So what if Lesnar can get a takedown on Fedor and i'm not so sure he can even do this. What's he going to do then besides get put in a armbar or kimura. He reversed K Randleman like it was nothing after being suplexed and he's ever bit as good of a wrestler as Brock. Mark Coleman at 250lbs in his hay day was a better wrestler than Brock also and look what happened to him twice.

There is no way Lesnar wins this fight and i'll bet everything i got on it. Fedor is more athletic, more explosive, much better striker, and argueabley the most dangerous submission guy in MMA. Lesnar weighs 265 and has some strength period. Brock's jaw hasn't never been tested either and it could be made of glass for all we know.

[Wet Bandit]

Re: Strikeforce In Talks With Fedor And Management

That's just laughable. So what if Lesnar can get a takedown on Fedor and i'm not so sure he can even do this. What's he going to do then besides get put in a armbar or kimura. He reversed K Randleman like it was nothing after being suplexed and he's ever bit as good of a wrestler as Brock. Mark Coleman at 250lbs in his hay day was a better wrestler than Brock also and look what happened to him twice.

There is no way Lesnar wins this fight and i'll bet everything i got on it. Fedor is more athletic, more explosive, much better striker, and argueabley the most dangerous submission guy in MMA. Lesnar weighs 265 and has some strength period. Brock's jaw hasn't never been tested either and it could be made of glass for all we know.

You're not sure Lesnar can get a takedown? That right there says everything about how objective you are about this fight, man.

Kevin Randleman wrestled in college at 177 lbs. In MMA, he was a natural 205'er. Even Mark Coleman gave up about 40 pounds and a lot of strength compared to Lesnar.

And yet both of those much smaller wrestlers took Fedor down at will. Coleman took him down and mounted him in the first minute of the fight, and then took him down a second time a minute or so later. Randleman got a takedown and into half-guard within 30 seconds of the fight, and suplexed Fedor 30 seconds later.

There would be no question that Lesnar would take Fedor down. The question is whether or not Fedor can survive the takedowns, survive the ground-and-pound, and find a way to submit Lesnar like he did Randleman and Coleman.

But Lesnar's submission defense already looks better than Randleman's or Coleman's ever did. Wtch the second Mir fight again. Mir went for a rolling kneebar early on, and at least two guillotines on takedown attempts. Lesnar recognized them almost instantly and immediately exploded out with his freaking athleticism before he was even in a hint of danger.

And when Lesnar had Mir on the ground, he was slow, methodical, and left Mir exactly zero openings to try a submission despite roughly five minutes on the ground.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Lesnar walks through Fedor or is even the favorite. But if we're honest here, it's a very close fight. Mir is a legit jiu-jitsu black belt, and he didn't even sniff a submission in that second fight. Even if Fedor's jiu-jitsu is better than Mir's, which is debateable, he'd still have a tough task in submitting Lesnar before getting pounded out.

[Salhus]

Re: Strikeforce In Talks With Fedor And Management

That's just laughable. So what if Lesnar can get a takedown on Fedor and i'm not so sure he can even do this. What's he going to do then besides get put in a armbar or kimura. He reversed K Randleman like it was nothing after being suplexed and he's ever bit as good of a wrestler as Brock. Mark Coleman at 250lbs in his hay day was a better wrestler than Brock also and look what happened to him twice.

There is no way Lesnar wins this fight and i'll bet everything i got on it. Fedor is more athletic, more explosive, much better striker, and argueabley the most dangerous submission guy in MMA. Lesnar weighs 265 and has some strength period. Brock's jaw hasn't never been tested either and it could be made of glass for all we know.

Technically, sure, you can talk about Randleman, Coleman, and Lesnar in the same sentence. Physically, there is no comparison. Lesnar has superior athleticism and strength to pretty much anybody out there.

I agree that Fedor wins, though. Not because of his striking or anything to do with stand up, but on the ground. Fedor will be on his back, but unlike Mir, Fedor would submit Brock.

Fedor's core is as strong as a 250 pounder, and a huge strength of his is his "quick-twitch muscles", meaning, his quickness. He throws on an armbar unbelievably fast. Mir is technically better, but he isn't as quick as Fedor.

Fedor by sub

[Pro Bowler]

Re: Strikeforce In Talks With Fedor And Management

You're not sure Lesnar can get a takedown? That right there says everything about how objective you are about this fight, man.

Kevin Randleman wrestled in college at 177 lbs. In MMA, he was a natural 205'er. Even Mark Coleman gave up about 40 pounds and a lot of strength compared to Lesnar.

And yet both of those much smaller wrestlers took Fedor down at will. Coleman took him down and mounted him in the first minute of the fight, and then took him down a second time a minute or so later. Randleman got a takedown and into half-guard within 30 seconds of the fight, and suplexed Fedor 30 seconds later.

There would be no question that Lesnar would take Fedor down. The question is whether or not Fedor can survive the takedowns, survive the ground-and-pound, and find a way to submit Lesnar like he did Randleman and Coleman.

But Lesnar's submission defense already looks better than Randleman's or Coleman's ever did. Wtch the second Mir fight again. Mir went for a rolling kneebar early on, and at least two guillotines on takedown attempts. Lesnar recognized them almost instantly and immediately exploded out with his freaking athleticism before he was even in a hint of danger.

And when Lesnar had Mir on the ground, he was slow, methodical, and left Mir exactly zero openings to try a submission despite roughly five minutes on the ground.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Lesnar walks through Fedor or is even the favorite. But if we're honest here, it's a very close fight. Mir is a legit jiu-jitsu black belt, and he didn't even sniff a submission in that second fight. Even if Fedor's jiu-jitsu is better than Mir's, which is debateable, he'd still have a tough task in submitting Lesnar before getting pounded out.

I disagree with taken down at will. In the 1st Coleman fight Fedor got taken down twice because he was in bad positions. The 2nd fight Coleman practically got his face caved in trying to take him down and he only got him down once in this fight. Let's not froget Coleman's wrestling was world class and has ten times the shoot that Lesnar has.

Randleman took him down once and i agree he did it pretty easily but he's quicker and gets lower than Lesnar and again has a better shoot. Now, that leaves the clinch and how is Lesnar going to deal with Fedor's Judo? I will conciede Lesnar can probably get him down but it sure as hell want be easy. He's to big to get low enough and be fast enough to shoot Fedor and he could end up getting rocked like Coleman when trying.

One last thing. Lesnar seems to like to stand and try to strike. I will agree he doesn't do a bad job but he's going to lose big time if he thinks he's going to stand with Fedor. Fedor hits harder and is quicker.

I also disagree with Lesnar being more athletic. Yes he's bigger and has some quickness but that doesn't make him more athletic than Fedor. Fedor is a stout 230 with very broad shoulders. When Fedor fought Cro Cop this fearsome kicker what did Fedor do, he kicked backed imo to just show that if he wanted to he could beat him at his own game.

Then there's the Mark Hunt fight which imo was Fedors best test. Hunt almost had him in a kimura. What did Fedor do? Beat him with a kimura of his own and again imo to just rub it in Hunt's face.

Lesnar has one chance and one chance only and that is to lay on him and GnP but i don't think he can control Fedor on the ground and even if he get's him down i don't think he's going to be able to do any real damage without Fedor escaping or eventually submitting Lesnar. But hey, i guess that's why they have the fight.

[Wet Bandit]

Re: Strikeforce In Talks With Fedor And Management

In the 1st Coleman fight Fedor got taken down twice because he was in bad positions.

Bad positions? They were both standing up in punching range. That's a bad position? The first takedown Fedor came inside with some looping punches and Coleman just took him down. The second one Fedor tried a guillotine, let go, stayed inside to punch, and got taken down.

You're trying to excuse Fedor getting taken down by claiming that him being in punching range is a bad position.

The 2nd fight Coleman practically got his face caved in trying to take him down and he only got him down once in this fight.

I think that fight was more just age finally catching up the Coleman in the two and a half years since the first fight. Keep in mind, he was 42 when the second fight happened, and he looked old and slow.

And the fight was also in Las Vegas, which meant steroid testing, so it's possible that Coleman's training wasn't quite the same as it had been when he was fighting overseas.

Randleman took him down once and i agree he did it pretty easily but he's quicker and gets lower than Lesnar and again has a better shoot.

Randleman didn't shoot on Fedor. He came in behind punches, got into Fedor's notoriously bad position of punching range, and took him down.

Now, that leaves the clinch and how is Lesnar going to deal with Fedor's Judo?

By being sixty pounds heavier and an accomplished wrestler? I mean, I know Fedor's got some sambo chops, but come on.

One last thing. Lesnar seems to like to stand and try to strike. I will agree he doesn't do a bad job but he's going to lose big time if he thinks he's going to stand with Fedor. Fedor hits harder and is quicker.

Not surprisingly, I think you're overrating Fedor's punching power. He hits pretty hard, but he doesn't really have knockout power. In his 31 fights, he's only won by KO/TKO 8 times (counting the Zulu fight) and he's really only flat out KO'd a guy once, Arlovski, a guy with a notoriously weak chin. Otherwise his other TKOs are either from cuts or an accumulation of strikes against guys like Zulu, Yuji Nagata, Gary Goodridge, and Chris Haseman. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of his punching power.

I agree that he's probably quicker, though.

I also disagree with Lesnar being more athletic.

Yeah, I never said that. So I suppose I'll concede that point.

Then there's the Mark Hunt fight which imo was Fedors best test.

Did you just say Mark Hunt was Fedor's best test? The same Mark Hunt that has a losing record, who has been stopped in all 6 losses and had two razon-thin split decisions as 2 of his 5 wins? That Mark Hunt? That was Fedor's best test?