UFC 105- Couture v. Vera on Spike

[Wet Bandit]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

If he loses to Vera I dont see how they can build him up as much of anything other then a gatekeeper at that point and they certainly didnt resign him for that I would think.

The only reason they gave Couture a new contract is so that he doesn't take his considerable name power and headline a Strikeforce PPV against Fedor. As long as Couture is in the UFC, they won't care if he's winning title, keeping gates, or mopping floors.

Anyway, as for the match-up, I would have much rather seen Jon Jones vs. Couture. Jones would be better off getting a push with a win over a name like Couture, and he'd be able to shrug off a loss easier since he's so young. Makes a lot more sense, plus I like Jones a lot more than I'll ever like Vera.

The more I think about it, the less interested I am in Couture/Vera. It's just...bleh. I'd rather have Little Nog/Cane headlining.

[Bona Fide]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

They are looking to build Jones slowly. No need to feed him to the wolves. In fact, I hate when they put fighters on the "fast track" instead of building up their skills first.

[Scoop_Brady]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

There's no way in hell that Jon Jones deserves a fight against Couture. Maybe a better way to put it would be that Couture doesn't deserve to have to fight somebody who is still mostly relegated to the undercard. Let's see him beat someone better than Bonnar and O'Brien before even considering him to fight Couture. Dude's got a lot of promise but there's no way he's ready for that level of a fight. It's not like Vera has the greatest credentials but at least he's been in the UFC for almost 4 years now. I'd personally love to see Ace fight Couture if he's going to go down to 205 or even Hendo.

[Wet Bandit]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

If Jones doesn't deserve to fight Couture, how does Vera? His only notable win, I suppose, was against Mir when Mir was making the comeback from his accident. Otherwise, he's done nothing (besides get beat three times by good, but not great, opponents). Jones' destruction of Bonnar was more impressive than anything Vera has done in his four years in the UFC.

I'd rather see Couture fight a young guy who seems like he could be great one day as opposed to a young guy who seems like he could make a decent gatekeeper someday.

And personally, if I was scheduling Couture's next opponent, it wouldn't be Jones or Vera. I'd give him either Tito or Coleman, depending on how that fight went. But if they want to work the 'either put a young guy over on Couture's name or give Couture a rebound win against a young guy who can afford a loss' angle, I'm much more interested in Couture/Jones than Couture/Vera.

[Bona Fide]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

It's not so much that Jones doesn't deserve to fight Coture or Vera deserves it more. It just doesn't make sense to make this fight right now because, simply put, Jones is not ready. Jones is 21 or 22 years old. He will be fighting for a long, long time. What is the rush? I mean what are the positives? He goes out there and beats Couture...then what? He gets thrown in the deep-end of the UFC's most stacked division. He obviously doesn't gain much from a loss. At least give the kid some time to develop his game a little because no matter what you think of Coture, he's still a huge step up from O'Brien and Bonnar coming off a knee injury.

Oh, and at least Vera has been in there with the big dogs before. Granted he hasn't looked that great lately, but I think this is sort of a "put up or shut up" type of fight for Vera. He really needs to at least look semi-impressive in this fight, and hopefully going against Randy will motivate him.

[Wet Bandit]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

It just doesn't make sense to make this fight right now because, simply put, Jones is not ready.

Based on what? His age is largely irrelevant. He either has the skills right now or he doesn't. And so far, considering how he's dominated mid-level competition, it seems like he might have the skills. The fact that he's only 22 isn't something that should hold him back from fighting the level of competition it looks like he should fight.

But don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm saying Jones should be getting a title shot right now. But someone like Couture, who's probably not even a top 10 LHW now, would be a smart next step for Jones. If he turns in another good performance, let him take another step up, maybe someone like Forrest Griffin. And if he cruises through that, then we can talk about a potential title shot.

And yeah, Vera's been in there with some reasonably-sized dogs before. But he's lost to all of them.

[Bona Fide]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

Seriously, what is the point of throwing him into the fire? If you want him to be truly great give him time to hone his skills. Jon Fitch is a perfect example of this. He was allowed to fight a bunch of lesser-skilled guys (this was before Alves had fixed some big holes in his game) before he jumped in with the big dogs, and now he is a top 3 WW. I mean it'd be different if there weren't many holes in Jones' game, and he was was destroying people in the 1st round. He isn't though, so I think it'd be a good idea to let him improve his striking and cardio. Also I'd like to see Jones fight against a legit striker first as well, but his next fight againt Hamill is a good fight to show where he's at.

I guess it all depends on how much you think Couture has left in the tank at LHW. I still think he might be a little out of Jon Jones' league.

[Wet Bandit]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

Seriously, what is the point of throwing him into the fire?

Into the fire? It's Randy Couture, the 46-year-old guy who just got dropped repeatedly by probably the most pillow-handed heavyweight in the history of the sport.

Honestly, I think Couture would be a pretty easy fight for Jones. His wrestling background and his athleticism would be a good match for Couture's wrestling. And Jones' length and speed would absolutely destroy Couture standing up. Couture is 100% a boxer when it comes to striking, and he'd be at a huge speed disadvantage, a huge reach disadvantage, and he's got a chin that is absolutely shot at this point.

Couture's only chance of winning that fight is to get inside, get Jones down, and lay on him for three rounds. But I just don't see how he can do that before Jones tags him with something.

So yeah, I don't think Jones/Couture would be throwing Jones into the fire at all. I really think it'd just be putting him over at the expense of Couture, building up some buzz for a potential Jones title run in a year or two.

[Scoop_Brady]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

I'm not saying Jones couldn't beat Couture or that he's not ready physically but he's not a known name in the sport just yet. A fighter on Randy's level should not have to fight somebody who half of the audience doesn't even know who he is. That's not how the fight game works. How do you sell a fight between a household name that is a legend and a guy that the casual fan doesn't even know?

Vera is a known guy and a fight between him and Couture can attract an audience. Vera doesn't lose much by losing to Couture but gains a lot by beating him. Couture has a lot to lose because it would be his third straight loss but a win against a credible 205er reestablishes him in the division.

In the end it's about money and a Couture/Jones matchup now would not bring in the money. Jones will get his shot if he keeps piling up the wins. He'll get it sooner if he can start finishing fights quicker.

[Wet Bandit]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

Why would casual fans know or care about Vera? Because of his high-profile wins over Reese Andy and Krystof Sodapopinski?

And the comment about Jones needing to finish fights quicker is odd, considering Vera has finished one fight in the last three years, and that was in the second round.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the argument against making a Couture/Jones fight. I even said that wouldn't be the fight I'd give Couture next.

What I don't see, at all, in any way, though, is the argument that says Couture/Jones is bad, but Couture/Vera is good. Vera is 3-3 in his last six fights and he's got absolutely zero notable, impressive wins. And he's worthy of fighting Couture, but Jones isn't? I don't see that at all.

[McLite]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

Oops wrong thread.

[Wet Bandit]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

Looks like this card is going to get a bit more interesting.

http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/09/28/mike-swick-vs-dan-hardy-in-the-works-for-title-shot-against-gsp/

Mike Swick is likely to step in and face Dan Hardy for the #1 contender spot.

The winner would probably get GSP in February. January would be too soon, and I'd imagine the UFC wouldn't want to hold off GSP any later because they'd want to be able to turn him around use him in June in the rumored Vancouver card.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

Here is the complete card:

MAIN CARD:
* Randy Couture vs. Brandon Vera
* Michael Bisping vs. Denis Kang
* Dan Hardy vs. Mike Swick
* Matt Brown vs. James Wilks
* Ross Pearson vs. Aaron Riley

PRELIMINARY CARD :
* Terry Etim vs. Shannon Gugerty
* John Hathaway vs. Paul Taylor
* Nick Osipczak vs. Matthew Riddle
* Alexander Gustafsson vs. Jared Hamman
* Roli Delgado vs. Andre Winner

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

Looks like this card is going to get a bit more interesting.

http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/09/28/mike-swick-vs-dan-hardy-in-the-works-for-title-shot-against-gsp/

Mike Swick is likely to step in and face Dan Hardy for the #1 contender spot.

The winner would probably get GSP in February. January would be too soon, and I'd imagine the UFC wouldn't want to hold off GSP any later because they'd want to be able to turn him around use him in June in the rumored Vancouver card.

It will be Feb or late January. Even with a win I dont think Hardy should get the shot but he is a great talker and will help promote the hell out of the fight.

[mgoblue]

Re: UFC 105 live on Spike

It will be Feb or late January. Even with a win I dont think Hardy should get the shot but he is a great talker and will help promote the hell out of the fight.

Yeah...I like Hardy, but don't think he's done enough to get to #1 Contender status yet, even with a win...I was a bit surprised when I read he was getting a title fight with a win.