UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

Just back from Vegas. Dissapointed that Rampage lost but Rashad did enough to win. I've been to 4 UF events and the crowd was absolutely nuts for Rampage. The loudest I've ever heard a crowd. The rest of the event was average without a ton of exciting fights.

[JerseySuave4]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

This seems to be a common sentiment.. that it was somehow rashad's fault that the fight was boring.

Is rampage just some passive observer? Last I checked it is his responsibility to escape his opponents dominant positions and try to inflict damage himself. He knew he was down in the fight.. The concept of wall-n-stall isn't dictated by one fighter.

If rashad hadn't changed levels into page's incidental knee (and gotten rocked) the rhetoric on this fight would be how pathetic rampage looked rather than the hilariously revisionist 'rashad is a boring lay-n-prayer' I've been seeing all over the web.

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Evans-Jackson.html

Rampage was thoroughly defeated.. Evans landed 50% more strikes than machida did in his 5 round standup battle against shogun, for the record.. just to put the fight into perspective.

I think the ref (was it Herb?) should have did a better job getting them up quicker or at least telling Rashad to work. Rampage was trying to get the fight back to their feet but he just had a guy holding him. I wouldnt have had a problem with Rashad's strategy had he done something once he got put in a position to. He just held his position and won a wrestling match.

All that talk about knocking Rampage out and making him quit and then you just come in and hold on for 3 rounds and win a wrestling match. It was smart but it was a very anti climatic ending to all that hype.

[goh]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

Yes it was Herb. I thought he did a fine job of breaking them up. Good officiating job all around this time actually.

[DJ]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

I think the ref (was it Herb?) should have did a better job getting them up quicker or at least telling Rashad to work. Rampage was trying to get the fight back to their feet but he just had a guy holding him. I wouldnt have had a problem with Rashad's strategy had he done something once he got put in a position to. He just held his position and won a wrestling match.

All that talk about knocking Rampage out and making him quit and then you just come in and hold on for 3 rounds and win a wrestling match. It was smart but it was a very anti climatic ending to all that hype.

That's the Greg Jackson gameplan: Do enough to win the round, then keep yourself out of danger.

It's smart, no doubt, but it doesn't always make for exciting fights.

[elTodd]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

But its not Rashad's job to provide an "exciting fight". He wants the win, plain and simple. This isn't the WWE where the whole thing is scripted to give the fans an exciting show.

I loved Rashad's gameplan and still think it was the only way he was going to win the fight. I would have had a problem with him staying on his feet and trying to box with Rampage, because that would have been suicide.

Would it have been a more exciting fight? Sure it would have. And it probably would have ended with Rashad getting KO'd.

At the end of the day, I want to see smart fighting and guys playing to their strengths and around their weaknesses. Rashad did that, and won the fight.

[MC Fatigue]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

I haven't seen it yet, but from I've heard it was another Thiago Silva type performance.

I watch fights for entertainment - and for me, clinching against a cage and getting takedowns that result in almost 0 offense aren't entertaining.

I love the ground game, but only when people are constantly changing positions, attempting subs, and getting good ground and pound in. Some of my favorite fights had almost no striking, but were two BJJ guys putting on a show.

When it comes down to it, it's a show. It's for entertainment. They're trying to make money off fighters putting on fights people want to see - and it seems most people don't want to see someone hold someone against a cage or take them down and do nothing. I'm definitely part of that crowd.

[JerseySuave4]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

But its not Rashad's job to provide an "exciting fight". He wants the win, plain and simple. This isn't the WWE where the whole thing is scripted to give the fans an exciting show.

I loved Rashad's gameplan and still think it was the only way he was going to win the fight. I would have had a problem with him staying on his feet and trying to box with Rampage, because that would have been suicide.

Would it have been a more exciting fight? Sure it would have. And it probably would have ended with Rashad getting KO'd.

At the end of the day, I want to see smart fighting and guys playing to their strengths and around their weaknesses. Rashad did that, and won the fight.

i understand it was his gameplan and his goal is to win but do something when you're on the ground in control or have a guy pinned against the cage. He didnt do anything but hold him there. Attempt to throw something, do something. I can't respect a guy that doesnt just him there the whole fight and then acts like he fought this amazing fight after just because he won by holding a better position. Especially after all the crap he talked and then to go in there and put on that performance, i'm sorry but it just bothers me.

I'm not arguing that he didnt win or it wasnt smart, i'm just saying Rashad should have did something with the position and he did nothing.

[PBlast]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

This happened exactly how I'd hoped, the main event anyway. Still to this day I don't see why so many people dislike Rashad. I like this style, I like his work ethic and I find his fights entertaining. He brings lots of speed and wrestling skill, along with much underrated striking. I think he was very GSP-esque on Saturday, sticking to his gameplan and scoring points, nothing wrong with that.

[DJ]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

I haven't seen it yet, but from I've heard it was another Thiago Silva type performance.

I watch fights for entertainment - and for me, clinching against a cage and getting takedowns that result in almost 0 offense aren't entertaining.

I love the ground game, but only when people are constantly changing positions, attempting subs, and getting good ground and pound in. Some of my favorite fights had almost no striking, but were two BJJ guys putting on a show.

When it comes down to it, it's a show. It's for entertainment. They're trying to make money off fighters putting on fights people want to see - and it seems most people don't want to see someone hold someone against a cage or take them down and do nothing. I'm definitely part of that crowd.

Agreed. The holding against the cage really needs to be addressed by the UFC. I can't stand that. It drags down the pace of the fight.

[Phillmattic]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

This was a good card with a good main event.

I really like Rampage so I was happy to see him lose. I know that sounds strange but this guy needed this loss for two reasons:

1) He needs to regain that fire. Leading up to the fight and even after the fight Rampage was doing a lot of complaining about things that didn't really have anything to do with his fight against Radshad. His problems with the UFC, and doing the A-Team movie. After the fight during the presser he even stated that he regretted doing the movie because of all the added pressure. He needed to be beaten handily, you could see it on his face after the fight that he knew he had been beaten by the better man. Hopefully this restores his focus on fighting.

2) He really needs to up his training. He's been exposed now in his last three fights. Forrest exposed him and took his belt, Jardine was on his way to a really close decision until Rampage was able to barely secure the win at the end of the third, and now Rashad completely outclassed him. Rampage is becoming more and more one dimensional and predictable. He's a dangerous man but he is only going to go so far walking people down looking to load up on hooks. Hopefully he gets out of Wolf's Lair and in to a better camp back in the states.

[darlon]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

This is where I feel a ring would be much more suitable. Fighting is a pure sport. Just two people going against each other with no outside factors. The fence definitely plays an important role in cage fighting.

In Japan, they have extra officials outside of the ring to make sure the ropes don't interfere with the fight. I also think the stand ups and restarts are much faster in Japan. They even go as far to issue yellow and red cards when the fighters don't press the action.

They do this because they know what their audience wants to see; excitement. This is also why they put together freak show fights like Bob Sapp and Hong Man Choi and Jose effing Conseco. They're much more concerned with putting on shows. That doesn't necessarily mean they ignore the competitive aspect of the sport. They just definitely know how to put on more exciting events. Great presentation, great pre-fight video packages, flashy entrances. More exciting overall.

I don't think the UFC shouldn't put on freak show fights but they should take notes from Japan's way of putting on shows. Maybe not the ring as the Octagon is such a staple in the UFC, but refs should be more inclined to take points away for lack of action and initiate quicker (justified) resets/standups. These fights would be more exciting.

[CYST2000]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

Oh my god people! If you don't like the guy than just say so, but if you are going to find a way to put him down after fighting the way he saw fit, than why are you even watching? The old UFC, or MMA style is going out the window. Fighters are becoming more well rounded and are being more patient. It's not all about crazy KO's and blood all over the mat. These guy's are trying to become the best at what they do, and if that means making the other fighter fight their fight, than so be it. Mayweather fights are almost always going the distance, now does that mean he cant fight? NO! Because he forces his opponent to fight at his level. Rashad is a very talented fighter, and he did what he could to win the fight, If Rampage was the better fighter than he would have made Rashad fight his fight.

[MC Fatigue]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

Oh my god people! If you don't like the guy than just say so, but if you are going to find a way to put him down after fighting the way he saw fit, than why are you even watching? The old UFC, or MMA style is going out the window. Fighters are becoming more well rounded and are being more patient. It's not all about crazy KO's and blood all over the mat. These guy's are trying to become the best at what they do, and if that means making the other fighter fight their fight, than so be it. Mayweather fights are almost always going the distance, now does that mean he cant fight? NO! Because he forces his opponent to fight at his level. Rashad is a very talented fighter, and he did what he could to win the fight, If Rampage was the better fighter than he would have made Rashad fight his fight.

that has nothing to do with what we're talking about

[Phillmattic]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

This is where I feel a ring would be much more suitable. Fighting is a pure sport. Just two people going against each other with no outside factors. The fence definitely plays an important role in cage fighting.

In Japan, they have extra officials outside of the ring to make sure the ropes don't interfere with the fight. I also think the stand ups and restarts are much faster in Japan. They even go as far to issue yellow and red cards when the fighters don't press the action.

They do this because they know what their audience wants to see; excitement. This is also why they put together freak show fights like Bob Sapp and Hong Man Choi and Jose effing Conseco. They're much more concerned with putting on shows. That doesn't necessarily mean they ignore the competitive aspect of the sport. They just definitely know how to put on more exciting events. Great presentation, great pre-fight video packages, flashy entrances. More exciting overall.

I don't think the UFC shouldn't put on freak show fights but they should take notes from Japan's way of putting on shows. Maybe not the ring as the Octagon is such a staple in the UFC, but refs should be more inclined to take points away for lack of action and initiate quicker (justified) resets/standups. These fights would be more exciting.

Good points, in a recent interview Nick Diaz did say that fighting in Japan is like an entirely different sport that favors more technical fighters. Still at the same time a ring would have probably favored Rashad more too. In both his fights against Thiago and Rampage, after Rashad secured a takedown his opponent used leverage against the cage to walk their way up back to their feet. Early in the fight when Rashad landed that double leg takedown in to side control he would have had much more of an opportunity to make something happen, and the fight could have potentially stayed on the ground long enough for Rashad to secure the crucifix he was working on.


However I do think that sometimes the stand ups are too quick in Japan. Pretty ironic when it comes to this situation because Rampage was has been vocal about his fights being stood up too quickly in Pride, even when he felt he was working.

Also these fights would get criticized no matter if it were a ring or cage. Can you imagine an American audience watching Shiny Aoki working from guard for the majority of a round? Joe Warren with about 0 mma experience was pretty successful under Japanese rules, and he's a wrestler who really didn't know what to do after a takedown and pretty much used what most people would call lay n pray.

Referee Herb Dean did an outstanding job with break ups. He gave Rashad enough time to work in the clinch and when the fight stalemated he broke it up.
He gave Rampage plenty of chances to make something happen, but Rampage really had no answer for Rashad because he mixed his attack well and kept him guessing.

Guys train to work against being clinched against the cage and its a strategy that doesn't work against more complete mixed martial artists. Kenny Florian tried using the same strategy against BJ Penn and was extremely unsuccessful. One dimensional fighters that let their opponent control the pace of the fight tend to get exposed by the strategy GSP and Rashad use.

[filtertmp]

Re: UFC 114 - Rashad vs. Rampage

This is where I feel a ring would be much more suitable. Fighting is a pure sport. Just two people going against each other with no outside factors. The fence definitely plays an important role in cage fighting.

In Japan, they have extra officials outside of the ring to make sure the ropes don't interfere with the fight. I also think the stand ups and restarts are much faster in Japan. They even go as far to issue yellow and red cards when the fighters don't press the action.

They do this because they know what their audience wants to see; excitement. This is also why they put together freak show fights like Bob Sapp and Hong Man Choi and Jose effing Conseco. They're much more concerned with putting on shows. That doesn't necessarily mean they ignore the competitive aspect of the sport. They just definitely know how to put on more exciting events. Great presentation, great pre-fight video packages, flashy entrances. More exciting overall.

I don't think the UFC shouldn't put on freak show fights but they should take notes from Japan's way of putting on shows. Maybe not the ring as the Octagon is such a staple in the UFC, but refs should be more inclined to take points away for lack of action and initiate quicker (justified) resets/standups. These fights would be more exciting.

Listen, I am an ardent pride supporter and loved the white ring as much as the next guy but the issues with a ring were far more detrimental to MMA than that of an octagon. I think the matchmaking and fighters in pride (notably the chute box guys and k-1 flameouts) had more to do with the great action than the ring.

The ropes often ****ed up fights.. Guys in trouble would just slide or pull themselves out of the ring to get a center ring reset and buy themselves time. Sometimes if guys rolled themselves up in the ropes they got straight stand ups.. total mess, though likely responsible for saku not being dead right now (zing).

The lack of room in the pride ring also affected matches. The unrelenting aggression of wanderlei and shogun was amplified because of the lack of room to circle and escape. Good footwork and counter-striking was negated to a degree by the lack of room, and hence guys who 'bumrushed' dominated. This isn't a knock.. wanderlei is my favorite fighter but I understand his success was in part a product of the ring he fought in.

Remember why they use an octagon rather than a boxing ring.. it was designed to not favor any specific martial art form (like a ring benefits muay-thai/boxing/general striking). It is roughly circular to provide space for fighters to move freely and utilize whatever style they want.

Guys might not like greco.. thats fine.. but greco is a martial art that is functionally ignored in a traditional boxing ring. Greco has the potential to be a factor in a cage.. hell, the companies #1 fighter of all time used greco with incredible effectiveness. A lot of people think his wins over fat tim and gonzaga are some of the best fights in company history and they were both straight greco.

Does it make for the most entertaining fights? Maybe not. If you are trying to lend legitimacy to a fledgling sport, and separate it from its former and current 'entertainment' or 'show' status than you can't favor a particular style just for ratings. I don't like small-ball in baseball but I understand how sac bunts and productive outs affect the balance of the game and respect its role in the sport.

I don't know if anyone saw the new dream ring but that thing is tight.. totally white and they use tuna netting instead of steel links for their cage. Just aesthetics but it looks a lot better at least.