UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

[redsrule]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

Wouldn't you? This dude keeps putting this guy keeps putting his foot in his mouth

Definitely. Since his last fight, it has just gone downhill bad for him.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

Here is my OS blog on this debacle:

http://www.operationsports.com/aholb...tipping-point/

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

Pretty interesting interview.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RcyrkZ0t190?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[allBthere]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

Here is my OS blog on this debacle:

http://www.operationsports.com/aholb...tipping-point/

I agree with you on a bunch of things but disagree on a few as well. Just to be short:

1) WAY more blame needs to fall on Henderson - why didn't he inform 3 weeks ago!?!?!? why is this somehow a smaller detail than not fighting a replacement for a title fight on 8 days? I don't know all the details, but to me this is a simple distinction. To me it's not like JJ failed the UFC but rather step up like a hero (which isn't something 100% expected, it's "special"

2) Chael Sonnen getting a title shot at LHW is LUDICROUS. HE lost his last fight (arguably 2), and in the Anderson fight he quit and showed when things go a tab bit sour he folds and wants out. More importantly he simply shouldn't get the shot like that - JJ is right about him jumping the line with his mouth. IF ANYTHING a fight like that should not have the belt on the line as it doesn't in some circumstances in boxing. I think it actually makes the UFC LHW division look THIN, that the only thing they could come up with was Sonnen. That's just crazy and to me they loose credibility doing that, and now fighters need to think their mouth is more important than what they do in the ring.

I'm not a JJ fan, but I feel he is only part of the problem, it's not a simple as blaming him alone for the whole thing and using him as a scapegoat.

Also as an aside, I'm getting from you that you want 2 things to happen that are kind of like oil and water. You want UFC to get more mainstream (why? It's good now and maybe more so a couple of years ago) AND you want the big drawing fighters to fight more and have less power. To me you get Nike, Fox and so on involved and bigger media attention like ESPN, and even CNN etc.. that comes with fighters getting more power because now they can use the media against the company or management without getting disciplined in many ways and get into pissing matches and basically communicate THROUGH the media .. this causes BIG problems.

The fighters may indeed start a union, that alone will cripple the excitement for fans as it currently stands. You can't let the UFC get crazy huge and still have management rule with an iron fist (that benefits the fans) imo. I'd rather the UFC revert back to PPV's and Spike fight night's only.

So in the end I whole-heartedly agree with a bunch of stuff you said especially the friend crap (give me a break) ... but I do believe JJ is not MOST to blame, he should get spoken to, slight slap on the wrist even, but Hendo is more to blame for this thing going south and for shame only having Chael as the best available option, that's just scary.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

I agree with you on a bunch of things but disagree on a few as well. Just to be short:

1) WAY more blame needs to fall on Henderson - why didn't he inform 3 weeks ago!?!?!? why is this somehow a smaller detail than not fighting a replacement for a title fight on 8 days? I don't know all the details, but to me this is a simple distinction. To me it's not like JJ failed the UFC but rather step up like a hero (which isn't something 100% expected, it's "special"

2) Chael Sonnen getting a title shot at LHW is LUDICROUS. HE lost his last fight (arguably 2), and in the Anderson fight he quit and showed when things go a tab bit sour he folds and wants out. More importantly he simply shouldn't get the shot like that - JJ is right about him jumping the line with his mouth. IF ANYTHING a fight like that should not have the belt on the line as it doesn't in some circumstances in boxing. I think it actually makes the UFC LHW division look THIN, that the only thing they could come up with was Sonnen. That's just crazy and to me they loose credibility doing that, and now fighters need to think their mouth is more important than what they do in the ring.

I'm not a JJ fan, but I feel he is only part of the problem, it's not a simple as blaming him alone for the whole thing and using him as a scapegoat.

Also as an aside, I'm getting from you that you want 2 things to happen that are kind of like oil and water. You want UFC to get more mainstream (why? It's good now and maybe more so a couple of years ago) AND you want the big drawing fighters to fight more and have less power. To me you get Nike, Fox and so on involved and bigger media attention like ESPN, and even CNN etc.. that comes with fighters getting more power because now they can use the media against the company or management without getting disciplined in many ways and get into pissing matches and basically communicate THROUGH the media .. this causes BIG problems.

The fighters may indeed start a union, that alone will cripple the excitement for fans as it currently stands. You can't let the UFC get crazy huge and still have management rule with an iron fist (that benefits the fans) imo. I'd rather the UFC revert back to PPV's and Spike fight night's only.

So in the end I whole-heartedly agree with a bunch of stuff you said especially the friend crap (give me a break) ... but I do believe JJ is not MOST to blame, he should get spoken to, slight slap on the wrist even, but Hendo is more to blame for this thing going south and for shame only having Chael as the best available option, that's just scary.

I disagree about Henderson. I say the blame is 60-40 Jones. Even if Hendo told the UFC when he was injured we wouldve been in the same place when it comes to Jones at 151. Machida and Rua both refused to fight Jones at 152 on 4 weeks notice so there is no way they wouldve accepted a fight at 151 on 3 weeks notice. So that once again leaves Chael as the only person willing to step up and fight Jones on short notice. It also leaves us in the same position where Jones has stated that he wasnt going to fight Chael right now anyway because Chael is a racist who lacks honor.

2. Chael want "jumping the line." He was the only person who offered to fight Jones on short notice. The UFC offered the fight to the next two highest ranked fighters (Machida and Rua) and they said no. If any other top LHW stepped up, they wouldve recieved the shot. Nobody else did. The other top LHW were injured (Gustof)

3. I disagree about how going mainstream equals more power for the fighters. While things like Fox and Nike (Jones' deal is reportedly worth very little) are going to give Jones more exposure, it doesnt give him more leverage. What the Fox deal does is help further solidify the UFC's position as the only true MMA power when it comes to competition and revenue. If Jon Jones was cut tomorrow, the UFC wouldnt see a significant drop in revenue.....but Jones would. U think Jones' keeps his Nike contract fighting in Bellator? Think people will give a crap about Jones if he's fighting Christian M'Pumbu instead of Dan Henderson? Jones knows that. What happened at 151 worries me but I dont think Jones is that stupid. When he sees the reaction he's gonna get at 152, it will make him realize that these things dont blow over as easy as he thinks.

Also you act as if the growth of the sport is what's causing primadonnas like Silva and Jones to act like this. Silva was acting like this back in 09. This was years before the Fox deal and when the UFC was in the position that you like.

[p_rushing]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

Don't look at Chael as skipping the line for a title fight. Let's be honest, he has as much chance of winning as he did in the 2nd Silva fight. Chael was getting the chance because he would sell the fight in 8 days and the 2 top contenders turned the fight down. There was no one else to take the fight that was ready and had a big enough name.

Chael would also almost guarantee that JJ would win. That would keep everything as is and still allow the card to go on.

[allBthere]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

I disagree about Henderson. I say the blame is 60-40 Jones. Even if Hendo told the UFC when he was injured we wouldve been in the same place when it comes to Jones at 151. Machida and Rua both refused to fight Jones at 152 on 4 weeks notice so there is no way they wouldve accepted a fight at 151 on 3 weeks notice. So that once again leaves Chael as the only person willing to step up and fight Jones on short notice. It also leaves us in the same position where Jones has stated that he wasnt going to fight Chael right now anyway because Chael is a racist who lacks honor.

2. Chael want "jumping the line." He was the only person who offered to fight Jones on short notice. The UFC offered the fight to the next two highest ranked fighters (Machida and Rua) and they said no. If any other top LHW stepped up, they wouldve recieved the shot. Nobody else did. The other top LHW were injured (Gustof)

3. I disagree about how going mainstream equals more power for the fighters. While things like Fox and Nike (Jones' deal is reportedly worth very little) are going to give Jones more exposure, it doesnt give him more leverage. What the Fox deal does is help further solidify the UFC's position as the only true MMA power when it comes to competition and revenue. If Jon Jones was cut tomorrow, the UFC wouldnt see a significant drop in revenue.....but Jones would. U think Jones' keeps his Nike contract fighting in Bellator? Think people will give a crap about Jones if he's fighting Christian M'Pumbu instead of Dan Henderson? Jones knows that. What happened at 151 worries me but I dont think Jones is that stupid. When he sees the reaction he's gonna get at 152, it will make him realize that these things dont blow over as easy as he thinks.

Also you act as if the growth of the sport is what's causing primadonnas like Silva and Jones to act like this. Silva was acting like this back in 09. This was years before the Fox deal and when the UFC was in the position that you like.

re: Chael ... Jones said before Hendo was injured he didn't want to fight him because he didn't deserve it- if I'm not mistaken that predates all this stuff and I agree with him - he can't just walk into 205 and take a title shot coming off a loss at a lower weight division. That takes away credibility from the belt to me. The 60-40 number I'm not sure where that comes from, you're saying "even if Hendo did the right thing" ... but he DIDN'T! lol ... that's a lot of time for Dana, UFC etc to come up with a solution. Who's to say the answer had to be LHW?? 2 full extra weeks at least to find anything to save the card!! We are sitting here saying 'what if' because HENDO effed up!! Not to defend JJ or Greg Jackson, but they're right, 3 days of fight training, the remaining 5 is press/weight cutting etc. Plus Chael was training with Henderson was he not? I'm not sure about the previous fill in fights but were they training with the original opponent? Another point - if Chael is the ONLY person willing to step up, isn't that a bigger problem? Why is Chael Sonnen the only person in the UFC who wants to fight JJ? How is that even possible? Doesn't that seem scary as a fan?

2. That just makes the LHW division in the UFC seem extremely thin that the ONLY guy to step in is a MW coming off a loss. Also are we giving title shots to anyone willing to 'step in' 8 days before an event? IF the belt isn't that precious, perhaps do away with it and just make the best most exciting fights happen period and forget about belts (something I'd consider actually) In this case rankings and belts are meaningless so we should just stop pretending. I'm being serious, over the past few years I've been pissed a number of times about people getting shots that have no business being there. JJ has a point and that's Chael's mouth getting him to the table - he has successfully built enough attention to himself that he is getting things he doesn't deserve. It's not JJ's fault nobody else in the ENTIRE division was willing to step up. (I can't believe I'm defending JJ lol)

3. It's double edged imo. Fighters can get big enough where the UFC cutting them would look weird. Let's say JJ became the face of MMA and the UFC cut him even though he defended his title 3 times in a year, but didn't want to fight a 185'er coming off a lose who isn't ranked top 10 in his division... That sounds ridiculous doesn't it? The media spin can actually really help these guys - there could also be a public cry for a union that gets actual NEWS interest and so on. I think the UFC is the only true MMA power and it's because of the product. I think they were there years ago and FoX has nothing to do with it... If they no longer prove that, they won't continue to be. to me it stinks of an inferiority complex with a constant need to compare with other US mainstream sports when there is no need to, enjoy it and let it be itself. And of course the growth will foster more primadonna's do you see Ochocinco's in the CFL? lol

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

1) Chael wasnt training with Henderson. He wasnt training at all because his next scheduled fight isnt until December. Regarding whether thats scary as a fan that no one wanted to step up...it isnt scary to me. What scares me more is a champion who refuses to fight on a date that he trained to fight on because he doesnt think a guy "deserves" a shot or because the guy doesnt have "honor." Asking guys like Machida and Rua to fight a great fighter like Jones is asking alot when 1) they just fought three weeks before (especially Rua who fought a war with Vera) 2) who were vacationing and not training at all. Also for Rua and Machida, this is there last shot at Jones. If they take a fight on short notice and lose they will never get a shot at Jones until he drops the belt.

Asking a guy who is scheduled to fight on a date to fight a different opponent isnt asking that much. Hundreds of fighters have done that since the UFC began. Tens of them have done it in less time than Jones was given.

2) Lets not act like Chael is some bum off the street. He's 7-3 since 2008 and has wins over top fighters like Bisping, Marquardt, Okami and Stann. 2 of those losses were to perhaps the greatest MMA fighter ever. The bottomline is Chael is the only person who had the name, drawing power and resume who was willing to step up and take that fight. If any of the top 5 LHWs were willing to step up and take that fight, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Also if you dont have Chael ranked as a top 10 middleweight even after the Silva loss...your rankings are screwed up.

3) If the UFC cut a fighter like Jones 3-5 yrs ago it wouldve looked weird and wouldve received major media attention. That has nothing to do with the growth of the UFC. Also did you see the reaction most fighters had to Jones dropping out of 151? The large majority of the HATED Jones for refusing to fight and causing the cancellation. You think firing Jones would lead to a union? LOL. Please! Jones isnt Couture or Liddell or even a fighter like Stann who is respected by most fighters in the sport.

Even when fighters like Couture sued the UFC, fighters didnt rally around him and talk about a union and Couture is probably one of the most respected fighters around. Fighters arent missing a paycheck because Jon Jones' primadonna *** doesnt want to fight on 8 days notice.

[DJ]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

Don't look at Chael as skipping the line for a title fight. Let's be honest, he has as much chance of winning as he did in the 2nd Silva fight. Chael was getting the chance because he would sell the fight in 8 days and the 2 top contenders turned the fight down. There was no one else to take the fight that was ready and had a big enough name.

Chael would also almost guarantee that JJ would win. That would keep everything as is and still allow the card to go on.

Yeah, that's what I don't get with Jones. The odds of him losing to Sonnen were low. Plus, he'd already been training to fight a wrestler, so he should have his TD defense covered. Also, there is no real threat of Sonnen KO'ing Jones (yes,it could happen, but not likely) like there was with Henderson.

He was basically fighting a less-dangerous version of Henderson.

Saying Sonnen didn't earn his shot is silly. Did Patrick Cote earn his LHW shot when he fought Tito in 7 day's notice? Heck no, but Tito still went through with his commitment to fight.

[GiantYankee]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

I disagree about Henderson. I say the blame is 60-40 Jones. Even if Hendo told the UFC when he was injured we wouldve been in the same place when it comes to Jones at 151. Machida and Rua both refused to fight Jones at 152 on 4 weeks notice so there is no way they wouldve accepted a fight at 151 on 3 weeks notice. So that once again leaves Chael as the only person willing to step up and fight Jones on short notice. It also leaves us in the same position where Jones has stated that he wasnt going to fight Chael right now anyway because Chael is a racist who lacks honor.

If Hendo gives notice when he gets injured the UFC won't feel the same pressure to get a replacement. Rua & Machida refuse, Dana White has time to keep going down the line of possible opponents at middleweight. He has time to get Anderson in there (assuming someone takes the fight). He has a little more breathing room to get a replacement fight or fighter.

[allBthere]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

If Hendo gives notice when he gets injured the UFC won't feel the same pressure to get a replacement. Rua & Machida refuse, Dana White has time to keep going down the line of possible opponents at middleweight. He has time to get Anderson in there (assuming someone takes the fight). He has a little more breathing room to get a replacement fight or fighter.

This is the biggest point imo, and it was largely ignored. It was only semi-acknowledged but for the most part it was just placed all on Jones, I don't even like Jones, and MANY people don't either which clouds some judgement and makes it much easier to forget about the 2 extra weeks Henderson screwed the UFC out of.

ps. Since when is Sonnen a top ten LHW? lol I also think he may have lost to Bisping in their fight... it's put to rest, the whole thing stinks, Jones shouldn't be off the hook, but the post I quoted here says it all ... had Hendo done the right thing I'm confident the UFC would have been able to put a card together and saved it, ... I don't get why he gets less blame than Jones.

anyway I've moved on now lol .... now I'm just pissed off that Anderson Silva is Fighting FRAKING BONNAR LMAO WHAT'S THE WORLD COMING TO!??

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

This is the biggest point imo, and it was largely ignored. It was only semi-acknowledged but for the most part it was just placed all on Jones, I don't even like Jones, and MANY people don't either which clouds some judgement and makes it much easier to forget about the 2 extra weeks Henderson screwed the UFC out of.

ps. Since when is Sonnen a top ten LHW? lol I also think he may have lost to Bisping in their fight... it's put to rest, the whole thing stinks, Jones shouldn't be off the hook, but the post I quoted here says it all ... had Hendo done the right thing I'm confident the UFC would have been able to put a card together and saved it, ... I don't get why he gets less blame than Jones.

anyway I've moved on now lol .... now I'm just pissed off that Anderson Silva is Fighting FRAKING BONNAR LMAO WHAT'S THE WORLD COMING TO!??

No one EVER called Sonnen a top 10 LHW. What are you talking about? Chael hasnt fought at 205 so how could he be a top 10 LHW? Sonnen was and is a top 10 MW. You referenced a Chael/Jones fight as if giving Chael a shot is giving it to "anybody." Its not. It would be giving it to a guy who was willing to save a card and who is a top 10 MW.

To Giant Yankee's point, the 2 weeks really didnt matter. Lets play it out:

Henderson drops out because of an injury. Dana has 2 weeks to find a headliner.

Rua and Machida are offered the fight and both refuse. Why? Because they refused to fight Jones at 152 when they had 4 weeks to prepare and both of them wouldve been recovering from their fight 3 weeks earlier.

Belfort has already stated that he couldnt have stepped up for 151 because he had just begun training for his 153 fight.

There are no other MW with any LHW experience who wouldve been willing or able to step up and fight Jones for the belt in that time. Wand is recovering from injuries during the Franklin fight and Bisping says he isnt moving back up.

So you say "Jones couldve fought at HW at 151." The only problem is that all the HW are pretty much booked and we have no idea whether Jones wouldve even taken a fight at HW on short notice (Jones hates short notice unless it benefits him apparently). But lets say Jones is willing to fight a HW. Who does he fight? Gabriel Gonzaga? Dave Herman? Those are the guys that are available.

Now you are complaining about a short notice fight with Silva and Bonner (which makes at least a little sense) but you wouldve been OK with Jones v. Herman? LOL.

If you read my post again, you see I dont let Hendo off the hook. He deserves a share of the blame. Just not more than Jones imo.

Last point, I cant stand people who just look at the end result and not how we get there. I reread one of your posts and you said

"I'm being serious, over the past few years I've been pissed a number of times about people getting shots that have no business being there."

Who are you talking about? The only title shot I would even consider falling in that category is the Machida shot against Jones last year and thats understandable because 1) The UFC needed a main event for that card and every other major fighter was injured or booked already and 2) Evans was injured and couldnt fight Jones then.

[allBthere]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

No one EVER called Sonnen a top 10 LHW. What are you talking about? Chael hasnt fought at 205 so how could he be a top 10 LHW? Sonnen was and is a top 10 MW. You referenced a Chael/Jones fight as if giving Chael a shot is giving it to "anybody." Its not. It would be giving it to a guy who was willing to save a card and who is a top 10 MW.

To Giant Yankee's point, the 2 weeks really didnt matter. Lets play it out:

Henderson drops out because of an injury. Dana has 2 weeks to find a headliner.

Rua and Machida are offered the fight and both refuse. Why? Because they refused to fight Jones at 152 when they had 4 weeks to prepare and both of them wouldve been recovering from their fight 3 weeks earlier.

Belfort has already stated that he couldnt have stepped up for 151 because he had just begun training for his 153 fight.

There are no other MW with any LHW experience who wouldve been willing or able to step up and fight Jones for the belt in that time. Wand is recovering from injuries during the Franklin fight and Bisping says he isnt moving back up.

So you say "Jones couldve fought at HW at 151." The only problem is that all the HW are pretty much booked and we have no idea whether Jones wouldve even taken a fight at HW on short notice (Jones hates short notice unless it benefits him apparently). But lets say Jones is willing to fight a HW. Who does he fight? Gabriel Gonzaga? Dave Herman? Those are the guys that are available.

Now you are complaining about a short notice fight with Silva and Bonner (which makes at least a little sense) but you wouldve been OK with Jones v. Herman? LOL.

If you read my post again, you see I dont let Hendo off the hook. He deserves a share of the blame. Just not more than Jones imo.

Last point, I cant stand people who just look at the end result and not how we get there. I reread one of your posts and you said

"I'm being serious, over the past few years I've been pissed a number of times about people getting shots that have no business being there."

Who are you talking about? The only title shot I would even consider falling in that category is the Machida shot against Jones last year and thats understandable because 1) The UFC needed a main event for that card and every other major fighter was injured or booked already and 2) Evans was injured and couldnt fight Jones then.

The UFC roster is massive - 2 weeks Zuffa may have been able to make it a watchable ppv, doesn't have to headline with a JJ's title fight, doesn't (and shouldn't) need to have a MW challenge for his belt. Maybe they can't handle a title fight every PPV - ? ... in fact they cannot. The only way I'd be remotely OK with Chael fighting Jones is if no belt was on the line. A MW losing a title fight, does not get a LHW title shot in his next fight period. Another thing is Chael needs to prove he's not going to continue acting like a quitter in the ring where it counts. Almost religiously the UFC makes fighters win 2 or 3 sometimes even 4 fights before getting another title fight - so you can't ruin that legitimacy with a circus stunt like having Sonnen get a shot out of left field.

The UFC has an internal ranking system I'm sure, but publicly they are vague about it with 'so and so is in the mix or RIGHT THERE' ... which enables them to fall behind the WWE wagon of 'entertainment' to pull of a stunt like Sonnen getting LHW shot right away like that. I never said Chael is a bum, but he is a 2-time title fight loser who quit in the 2nd fight when things weren't going his way.

The UFC overall is great, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with some of their stupid decisions. The vera, shogun, machida, bader stunt was idiotic..some match-making decisions either for belts (Leites, maia both come to mind) or matchups I'd prefer getting into contender position. But there is absolutely no way to legitimize Chael getting an actual shot at the LHW belt like that. "saving the card" is BS - if you're going to do that it simply can't be for a title

I think you mixed me up with someone else ... the herman thing I"m not sure who you were talking to.

In the end - Jon Jones is a bit of a douche but maybe canceling was for the best

anyway, love the avitar.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 151 - Jones vs. Hendo - Sept 1 - Vegas

The UFC roster is massive - 2 weeks Zuffa may have been able to make it a watchable ppv, doesn't have to headline with a JJ's title fight, doesn't (and shouldn't) need to have a MW challenge for his belt. Maybe they can't handle a title fight every PPV - ? ... in fact they cannot. The only way I'd be remotely OK with Chael fighting Jones is if no belt was on the line. A MW losing a title fight, does not get a LHW title shot in his next fight period. Another thing is Chael needs to prove he's not going to continue acting like a quitter in the ring where it counts. Almost religiously the UFC makes fighters win 2 or 3 sometimes even 4 fights before getting another title fight - so you can't ruin that legitimacy with a circus stunt like having Sonnen get a shot out of left field.

The UFC has an internal ranking system I'm sure, but publicly they are vague about it with 'so and so is in the mix or RIGHT THERE' ... which enables them to fall behind the WWE wagon of 'entertainment' to pull of a stunt like Sonnen getting LHW shot right away like that. I never said Chael is a bum, but he is a 2-time title fight loser who quit in the 2nd fight when things weren't going his way.

The UFC overall is great, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with some of their stupid decisions. The vera, shogun, machida, bader stunt was idiotic..some match-making decisions either for belts (Leites, maia both come to mind) or matchups I'd prefer getting into contender position. But there is absolutely no way to legitimize Chael getting an actual shot at the LHW belt like that. "saving the card" is BS - if you're going to do that it simply can't be for a title

I think you mixed me up with someone else ... the herman thing I"m not sure who you were talking to.

In the end - Jon Jones is a bit of a douche but maybe canceling was for the best

anyway, love the avitar.

You are looking at this entire situation in a bubble and not taking into account what fighters are available. Tell me what fighters were available to headline a PPV. I broke down the entire situation for you. Best case scenario for 151 wouldve been Jones v. a HW if he doesnt take the Chael fight. The only HWs that were available were at the Dave Herman level. So you are arguing that the UFC shouldve gone with a Jones/Herman or Gonzaga fight over a Jones/Sonnen title fight? If you are, thats insane.

What is also insane is anyone who has an issue with Maia getting a shot when he did. He was 6-1 in the UFC at that time (5 more wins than Silva had when he got his shot) and two people scheduled to get a shot before him (Marquardt and Belfort) were injured. Its easy to say "Maia didnt deserve a shot. Look how he performed against Silva" after the fact. At the time he was the #4 ranked MW in the world. If #2 and 3 arent available, its not a crime to give the shot to #4.

[TheShizNo1]

You two are debating the same thing in both threads. Did you notice that?