White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

[TheShizNo1]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

I always thought they could flip it to pride while doing shows in Japan and use those rules while they are there - but try telling that to anyone who works anywhere near the word of the century: "BRAND"

The UFC to me has already had it's golden age and is currently declining imo. But that doesn't mean it's going to die or anything, it's just like other sports like the NBA for example where you have some decades or 5 year stretches much better than others. For me it started being less appealing as soon as fox got involved.

Unionization is the biggest thing to come next, that issue has been brewing a long time - you have Dana saying deals like Reebok make it more like the NFL with a uniform, but no you can't have a players union!

None of this makes sense to me. If it declined as far as your interest, understood. But it's on TV (and known networks) more than ever. Athletes are in movies. Athletes are in major commercials (Nike, Gatorade). IDK that it's growing at the same rate it was say 5 or 6 years ago, but I'm pretty sure it's not declining at any kind of noticeable rate.

[p_rushing]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

None of this makes sense to me. If it declined as far as your interest, understood. But it's on TV (and known networks) more than ever. Athletes are in movies. Athletes are in major commercials (Nike, Gatorade). IDK that it's growing at the same rate it was say 5 or 6 years ago, but I'm pretty sure it's not declining at any kind of noticeable rate.

PPV #s outside of Conor and Ronda haven't been great. You don't have a lot of stars left now as the UFC has a lot of older names and the younger fighters just aren't stars. Over saturation of cards, which I like having a lot of free cards, has hurt the PPVs as there are too many fights and not enough starts to stack PPVs and spread out over the free cards.

Now with Reebok, you have instantly killed all outside sponsorship. You may see a few old commercials that have already been paid for and those terrible metro pcs or whatever they are with Ronda, but those are all dried up with her loss and the Reebok deal.

Now if a fighter wants to do something, it has to be done outside of fight week and not at an UFC sponsored event. So basically you are paying a fighter for a commercial, which is very costly, or some social media plugs. There are less than 5 fighters big enough for a commercial and GSP is still retired and Ronda may be also.


Future wise, it will all depend on how they can improve.

The new FOX deal is something to watch for. The UFC has been trying to push the UFC as a league like the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. It is about the UFC being the top MMA league and not about the individual fighters. I agree with that approach, but don't like they way they have done it. PPVs will need to be addressed as you don't get people to buy just because it is a UFC PPV, you have to have the fighters that people want to see. That isn't guaranteed income like you would get from FOX.

If they or the new owners get FOX or someone else to pay per share/viewer, they could drop the PPVs and move to regular TV like the other leagues do. Image Conor headlining a card on FOX, they would set some high ratings for that, but not sure if the owners would be willing to give up some money on that card for higher payouts on the lower cards.

[redsox4evur]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

If they or the new owners get FOX or someone else to pay per share/viewer, they could drop the PPVs and move to regular TV like the other leagues do. Image Conor headlining a card on FOX, they would set some high ratings for that, but not sure if the owners would be willing to give up some money on that card for higher payouts on the lower cards.

And there's the flip side of this...is a person like Conor willing to give up all of that PPV money to take and do cards that are on Fox? Because I presume you're getting more for headlining a PPV over a fight on Fox.

[aholbert32]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

PPV #s outside of Conor and Ronda haven't been great. You don't have a lot of stars left now as the UFC has a lot of older names and the younger fighters just aren't stars. Over saturation of cards, which I like having a lot of free cards, has hurt the PPVs as there are too many fights and not enough starts to stack PPVs and spread out over the free cards.


Now if a fighter wants to do something, it has to be done outside of fight week and not at an UFC sponsored event. So basically you are paying a fighter for a commercial, which is very costly, or some social media plugs. There are less than 5 fighters big enough for a commercial and GSP is still retired and Ronda may be also.


Future wise, it will all depend on how they can improve.

The new FOX deal is something to watch for. The UFC has been trying to push the UFC as a league like the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. It is about the UFC being the top MMA league and not about the individual fighters. I agree with that approach, but don't like they way they have done it. PPVs will need to be addressed as you don't get people to buy just because it is a UFC PPV, you have to have the fighters that people want to see. That isn't guaranteed income like you would get from FOX.

If they or the new owners get FOX or someone else to pay per share/viewer, they could drop the PPVs and move to regular TV like the other leagues do. Image Conor headlining a card on FOX, they would set some high ratings for that, but not sure if the owners would be willing to give up some money on that card for higher payouts on the lower cards.

PPV numbers have never been great for the UFC outside of their stars. Have you seen some of the non-GSP/Brock numbers from the past? The numbers today are better.

Conor is 27. Jones is 28. Luke is 31. DJ is 29. Joanna J is 28. They are all UFC stars and they are all in their prime.

PPV will never go away unless FOX gave them a NBA/MLB level deal. The UFC generates too much revenue from that and has little overhead. They make money even on cards that only generate 200-300k.

[allBthere]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

PPV numbers have never been great for the UFC outside of their stars. Have you seen some of the non-GSP/Brock numbers from the past? The numbers today are better.

Conor is 27. Jones is 28. Luke is 31. DJ is 29. Joanna J is 28. They are all UFC stars and they are all in their prime.

PPV will never go away unless FOX gave them a NBA/MLB level deal. The UFC generates too much revenue from that and has little overhead. They make money even on cards that only generate 200-300k.

Those people are not stars... DJ is too small for the masses to care about, Joanna won't ever be a star and Luke isn't either, he's not likeable or particularly exciting - just sort of generic. Jones, a bonafide star, isn't fully reliable and conor is showing that a side a bit as well. Not too long ago you had multiple stars in every division, and all those B-side guys needed as well.

It's fine, I'm not crapping on the UFC, it's just not as exciting and interesting now as it was. Off the top of my head approx. 2006-2012 was my fav 'window' for the UFC. look at the 2009 undisputed roster lol

[p_rushing]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

Sounds like they may only be selling another small % of the UFC, but if they really got a 3.5-4 billion offer, that is +2 billion more than value estimate. You have to sell for that much specially when your total worth is less than 2 billion.

Sent from my Venue 8 7840 using Tapatalk

[Bigg Cee]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

He already said its not for sale!

[Phobia]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

He already said its not for sale!

[aholbert32]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

Those people are not stars... DJ is too small for the masses to care about, Joanna won't ever be a star and Luke isn't either, he's not likeable or particularly exciting - just sort of generic. Jones, a bonafide star, isn't fully reliable and conor is showing that a side a bit as well. Not too long ago you had multiple stars in every division, and all those B-side guys needed as well.

It's fine, I'm not crapping on the UFC, it's just not as exciting and interesting now as it was. Off the top of my head approx. 2006-2012 was my fav 'window' for the UFC. look at the 2009 undisputed roster lol

I think you have your nostalgia goggles on. Comparing a 7 year span to a current year is kind of unfair so lets go to 2009 what many believe was the peak of the UFC. In 2009, the UFC had 4 stars.

GSP, Brock, Chuck and BJ. They had some other well known names like Couture and Big Nog. There werent multiple stars in each division. Unless you consider Diego Sanchez and Florian as stars (LW) or Thiago Alves and Jon Fitch as Stars(WW). Or Demian Maia in (MW). The divisions were extremely top heavy at that point.

Silva wasnt a star until he fought Belfort in 2011. That was the first time he ever sold more than 600k ppvs. Before that he averaged around 350k on PPV. It takes time to build stars. Silva had the belt 4 years before he was a box office draw. Shoot BJ didnt start selling PPVs until the GSP fight.

Currently, there are 3 "stars". Conor, Jones and Ronda. 4 if GSP comes back as expected this year. There is a greater mix of older fighters (Silva, Lawler, the Diazs) and younger up and coming potential stars (Luke, Weidman, Joanna).

I dont see the two situations being much different other than Conor breaking every PPV record in the UFC.

[allBthere]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

I think you have your nostalgia goggles on. Comparing a 7 year span to a current year is kind of unfair so lets go to 2009 what many believe was the peak of the UFC. In 2009, the UFC had 4 stars.

GSP, Brock, Chuck and BJ. They had some other well known names like Couture and Big Nog. There werent multiple stars in each division. Unless you consider Diego Sanchez and Florian as stars (LW) or Thiago Alves and Jon Fitch as Stars(WW). Or Demian Maia in (MW). The divisions were extremely top heavy at that point.

Silva wasnt a star until he fought Belfort in 2011. That was the first time he ever sold more than 600k ppvs. Before that he averaged around 350k on PPV. It takes time to build stars. Silva had the belt 4 years before he was a box office draw. Shoot BJ didnt start selling PPVs until the GSP fight.

Currently, there are 3 "stars". Conor, Jones and Ronda. 4 if GSP comes back as expected this year. There is a greater mix of older fighters (Silva, Lawler, the Diazs) and younger up and coming potential stars (Luke, Weidman, Joanna).

I dont see the two situations being much different other than Conor breaking every PPV record in the UFC.

fair enough, but I'm not as concerned with the ppv numbers because it's not a true indicator of 'golden age' - I'm talking about it being 'better' which will have an impact but more gradually.

For example take the NBA. My golden age for that was late 80-mid 90s - you had a star or two on almost every team with a distinct 'feel'. Those days where not only did you have Jordan, but you had mailman+stockton, Drexer, Wilkins, Bird, Magic, Miller, Ewing, D.Robinson, and on and on and on with a big heap of b-side guys as well that were memorable. BUT the big thing here is today's viewership blow those days out of the water because there is simply much more reach, it's not even close.

So from that standpoint can I say the UFC is 'Better' today than it was just a few years ago - no. Maybe you can, but besides the guys you mention I'd include other champs like Matt Hughes, and remember when the LHW division was crazy with Rampage, Machida, Rua playing musical chairs? Forrest, and 'Shad .... to me it's those memorable guys with varying styles and there were so many - now I don't get that feeling as much.

I'm also not saying it's 'bad' now either, just that better days are in the rear view mirror. It could get back to that and exceed it possibly or it could continue to decline. I do think up and coming people will be more homogenized overall and I'm already seeing that which is partly because of the training now so instead of the Axe murderer or RAMPAGE you have Luke Rockhold ...

If anyone here thinks the UFC is better/more entertaining now - great, I just think it was more interesting a little while and and find myself skipping more and more events now. It's not my lack of interest in MMA, I have a martial arts background and have always been into it and always will follow it.

Don't you feel a bit of a crossroads too? there may be union issues and the whole sale proposition as well as natural ebs and flows, and things like Dana getting older (him and Zuffa can't do this forever)

[aholbert32]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

fair enough, but I'm not as concerned with the ppv numbers because it's not a true indicator of 'golden age' - I'm talking about it being 'better' which will have an impact but more gradually.

For example take the NBA. My golden age for that was late 80-mid 90s - you had a star or two on almost every team with a distinct 'feel'. Those days where not only did you have Jordan, but you had mailman+stockton, Drexer, Wilkins, Bird, Magic, Miller, Ewing, D.Robinson, and on and on and on with a big heap of b-side guys as well that were memorable. BUT the big thing here is today's viewership blow those days out of the water because there is simply much more reach, it's not even close.

So from that standpoint can I say the UFC is 'Better' today than it was just a few years ago - no. Maybe you can, but besides the guys you mention I'd include other champs like Matt Hughes, and remember when the LHW division was crazy with Rampage, Machida, Rua playing musical chairs? Forrest, and 'Shad .... to me it's those memorable guys with varying styles and there were so many - now I don't get that feeling as much.

I'm also not saying it's 'bad' now either, just that better days are in the rear view mirror. It could get back to that and exceed it possibly or it could continue to decline. I do think up and coming people will be more homogenized overall and I'm already seeing that which is partly because of the training now so instead of the Axe murderer or RAMPAGE you have Luke Rockhold ...

If anyone here thinks the UFC is better/more entertaining now - great, I just think it was more interesting a little while and and find myself skipping more and more events now. It's not my lack of interest in MMA, I have a martial arts background and have always been into it and always will follow it.

Don't you feel a bit of a crossroads too? there may be union issues and the whole sale proposition as well as natural ebs and flows, and things like Dana getting older (him and Zuffa can't do this forever)

Regarding your LHW reference, thats just one division. Now that was the "golden era" for LHW (W. Silva, Hendo and even guys like mid level guys Thiago Silva were good fighters) but to the UFC. Back then every division below that was pretty much top heavy. There were no solid contenders in MW (Silva was fighting people like Cote/Leites for title shots). WW was shallow (Fitch was the only top contender and he was boring, guys like Dan Hardy were getting shots from beating mid level guys like Mike Swick). So was LW.

Now WW/LW/MW go at least 5 people deep in legitimate championship contenders. The divisions are way deeper. The skill level is much higher. I watch older fights regularly when I'm working out and I'm sometimes shocked at how much the sport has advanced in just these last 8 years.

I dont think its at a crossroads at all. Its a combat sport. There is a ready made ceiling. The UFC is never going to be the NFL, NBA or MLB. Its ceiling is that it is a more accessible, more reliable (when it comes to making fights fans want to see) version of boxing.

The union stuff isnt really an issue for two reasons. 1) The antitrust lawsuit will either be won by the UFC on the trial level or in appeals court. 2) No top star is willing to sacrifice his career to create a union. It would take a Conor/Ronda/GSP like star threatening to boycott a major event unless the Fertittas recognize a Union. That will never happen. No major star is willing to walk away from a 7 figure payday so that the lower card fighters have a higher minimum guarantee or more sponsorship pay. If a lower card fighter or a group of them threatened a walkout, they would either be immediately cut or benched for years.

The sale isnt that concerning to the sport either. If anything, if the Fertitas sold the UFC, it could be a positive thing for the sport. Maybe the UFC loosens up the Reebok deal and allows small sponsorship. Maybe the minimum salary is increased.

2009 is one of my favorite periods of the UFC but I also know that it was carried solely by a few stars and one deep division. I dont think the UFC is worse off now. They have deeper divisions and two mega stars who can sell 1 million PPVs anytime they are on the card.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

Rumors have been strong this week, but it seems like this sale might really be going down soon.

[Dave_S]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

Could be interesting. If they really do sell 100% ownership I'm curious how much things could change.

[redsox4evur]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

Two bids came in both over 4B...

http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/16258572/bidding-buy-ufc-drawing-closer-conclusion

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The JareBear]

Re: White and Fertitas looking to sell the UFC?

Two bids came in both over 4B...

http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/16258572/bidding-buy-ufc-drawing-closer-conclusion

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really curious to see how this all unfolds


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk