Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

[TheLoafer]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

Ah come on, you didn't feel the heat for the Corporation or the corporate ministry? I thought those were pretty well done, even if, as usual in WWE style, they exagerated with the crucifiction of Stone Cold, etc. That came after the Nation of Domination no?

Still, when they appeared on stage, the crowd reacted and that's what a heel or a heel stable is all about. Also, with the E, I think there biggest problem of late certainly has been the injuries and (fairly) recent departures. HHH is their biggest Heel (when he's a heel eheh) and he's been on the shelf. They also lost a good heel in Angle, etc.

[cjonesfan921]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

They need a stable. When they had any good stable, wrestling was entertaining. I loved Evolution, they were great. Nation of Domination vs DX, was classic. DX impersonating NOD was unbelievable funny. Corporation, Ministry, Corporate Ministry. Wrestling was very entertaining when they had those stables. I think they need to create good stables. Don't just create one for the hell of it, make it a good one. They have done a good job in the past, so I would think they would do a good job going forward.

[Hooe]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

Honestly the last good bad guy stable (?) in the WWE in my opinion was the Right To Censor.

Agreed that the WWE doesn't have enough true heels; I think Orton is close and to an extent Ken Kennedy and MVP are good heels IMO. The problem is right now it's cool to like the bad guy and hate the good guy, a la everyone booing John Cena. That probably has something to do with Cena topping the extreme odds against him at an unbelievable rate, however, and eventually people get sick of the same ol same ol. He reminds me of late 1996 Shawn Michaels, who was getting booed out of the building for the same reason Cena is now.

[SPTO]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

Ah come on, you didn't feel the heat for the Corporation or the corporate ministry? I thought those were pretty well done, even if, as usual in WWE style, they exagerated with the crucifiction of Stone Cold, etc. That came after the Nation of Domination no?

.

I forgot about them but now that I think of it. That did get a hell of a reaction but then the whole "higher power" BS was played out and was WAY too predictable. The earlier stuff with Austin being crucified was great tho.

Oh and Kroniq, cheap heat heels don't count in my books. RTC was just Vince's way of poking fun at the conservative groups that were attacking WWF/E at the time.

[jayo]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

The biggest problem in the WWE is Vince McMahon, for as dumb as Bischoff was, he never made himself the CENTER of the promotion. Yeah he was out there, and involved, but he was just as involved with mid-card talent, as we was with main event talent, if not moreso with the mid-carders. Everything in the WWF/E has always been about Vince McMahon, and I can't see that changing ever. He has to always be at the center of whatever is going on in the promotion. If there's a big time angle, you can bet Vince is involved somehow.

I remember when I watched that last episode of Nitro, thinking..."oh ****, wrestling is done." But they did okay for a while, while I think the whole Invasion angle could've been handled much better, and added a lot more emotion to the WWE, it was at least entertaining. I think that was the last time I was actually entertained by the WWE. They have some interesting stuff here and there, but that was the last time I actually MADE SURE to tune into Raw on Monday to see what was going to happen next. Vince and his ego, not wanting to make WWE look inferior to WCW/ECW talent, totally ruined it, and since then, it just hasn't been the same for me.

[J_Posse]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

The biggest problem in the WWE is Vince McMahon, for as dumb as Bischoff was, he never made himself the CENTER of the promotion. Yeah he was out there, and involved, but he was just as involved with mid-card talent, as we was with main event talent, if not moreso with the mid-carders. Everything in the WWF/E has always been about Vince McMahon, and I can't see that changing ever. He has to always be at the center of whatever is going on in the promotion. If there's a big time angle, you can bet Vince is involved somehow.

I remember when I watched that last episode of Nitro, thinking..."oh *earmuffs*, wrestling is done." But they did okay for a while, while I think the whole Invasion angle could've been handled much better, and added a lot more emotion to the WWE, it was at least entertaining. I think that was the last time I was actually entertained by the WWE. They have some interesting stuff here and there, but that was the last time I actually MADE SURE to tune into Raw on Monday to see what was going to happen next. Vince and his ego, not wanting to make WWE look inferior to WCW/ECW talent, totally ruined it, and since then, it just hasn't been the same for me.

I completely agree with you, man.

It doesn't help matters when top-tier wrestlers defect (Christian Cage & Kurt Angle), are often injured (Edge, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, and Rey Mysterio), are under-utilized (Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, Matt Hardy, Elijah Burke, Mickie James and Kane) and some have un-timely deaths (Benoit & Guerrero). Vince has been hurting his product for sometime now, but I thought the death of his "character" would bring more emphasis on the in-ring action. That unfortunately hasn't been the case, and now he's returned to WWE television. I think once he takes himself and his family (not including Trips) off of RAW, and decides that the in-ring action is most important, we'll finally see improvement.

[bmarquardt]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

Big Sting fan since his UWF days when he was tagging with the likes of Rick Steiner and Eddie Gilbert. I say his big turning point was at the first ever Clash of the Champions (which ran live on TBS up against Wrestlemania) when he wrestled Flair to a time limit draw for the NWA title. I also remember him doing a running dive over the top or middle rope to the outside at the GAB that same year (88). First time I ever saw that move done and I was in complete awe. At the '90 GAB when he won the title, it was a complete mark-out moment at my house as I had a few freinds over and we were anticipating a title change. We went crazy.

[jewelz1132]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

lol after watching some vids from icon on youtube...i been watching nitros and stuff from september 96 when sting went crow leading up to starcade

[Lintyfresh85]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

<object height="350" width="425">
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QLTwe-dND_g" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"></object> <object height="350" width="425"> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ex-iTlOja7Y" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"></object>BTW, I'm embarrassed to say this...but I still have the O.W.N. (One Warrior Nation) t-shirt I bought at this event.

Don't say that man... that's just embarrassing.

[Lintyfresh85]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

I'd also like to say that stables are basically a legal way to print money for your wrestling federation. Why people don't realize this is beyond me. As everyone else has said, wrestling always seemed the best when Feds had Stables.

With that being said, it might not make financial sense for them to have a lot of stables... more stables equals more guys on tv... all earning pay checks that they wouldn't have to pay out when a segment is a 1 vs. 1 match. Secondly if there is no good story to go with the stables, I personally feel as if the stable is overkill and just not necessary.

[voodoo_magic]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

Thanks for posting the vids, brought back some good memories.
As a fan of wrestling I miss the competition between wcw and wwe.
I like tna and hope they continue to improve and become more popular so that it will bring out the best in wwe.
wwe with 3 separate shows was so stale it was looking like the end of quality wrestling entertainment, but now that the wrestlers have a choice in promotions and we start to see some guys in different places hopefully we will get some of the "surprise" back.

Speaking of stables, remember the wwe trying to recreate the NWO, that showed me that things really have to be perfect for a stable to work. Like others have said nowadays people like to cheer for heels so how can you create a heel stable then?
I remember people cheering for the NWO towards the end as they beat up on guys.
What about a stable of heels like Orton, Umaga, Kennedy and Carlito with HHH leading them, just for an example?
I think it needs to have more than 3 members to do the job, maybe 3 to start and then add in a member and then a little while later at a ppv you add the 5th member, survivor series would be perfect as you could have the mystery man angle or the royal rumble also would be real surprising.

I'm sure they will try something sometime, in the meantime and inbetween time I guess I will dream of what could be.

[ubernoob]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

Thanks for posting the vids, brought back some good memories.
As a fan of wrestling I miss the competition between wcw and wwe.
I like tna and hope they continue to improve and become more popular so that it will bring out the best in wwe.
wwe with 3 separate shows was so stale it was looking like the end of quality wrestling entertainment, but now that the wrestlers have a choice in promotions and we start to see some guys in different places hopefully we will get some of the "surprise" back.

Speaking of stables, remember the wwe trying to recreate the NWO, that showed me that things really have to be perfect for a stable to work. Like others have said nowadays people like to cheer for heels so how can you create a heel stable then?
I remember people cheering for the NWO towards the end as they beat up on guys.
What about a stable of heels like Orton, Umaga, Kennedy and Carlito with HHH leading them, just for an example?
I think it needs to have more than 3 members to do the job, maybe 3 to start and then add in a member and then a little while later at a ppv you add the 5th member, survivor series would be perfect as you could have the mystery man angle or the royal rumble also would be real surprising.

I'm sure they will try something sometime, in the meantime and inbetween time I guess I will dream of what could be.

The vanilla stable set-up is the Main Eventer, the Tag Teamers, and the Enforcer (and/or Small Guy/Midcarder).

This would leave us with someone like Orton, Highlanders (ish... WGTT would not work imo, not many other tag teams), and Umaga.

[JiggidyJames]

Re: Turning point for an icon in wrestling...

Up until the Attitude Era, WWE never really had any stables. And even then, there were only two that were memorable. I really don't care one way or the other.