WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

[Lintyfresh85]

Guys I love pro wrestling. I love it so much I wrote my senior thesis on the communication patterns of a pro wrestling message board. It's been in my blood since I can remember, that's why I think we need a debate thread. No name calling, just good arguments backed up by fact and voted on by members here at OS. I'm opening this to anyone who would like to debate, but keep it civil.... Feel free to add topics as we go along, but the first topic I want to debate is "Stories vs. Wrestling" what's more important to a product and why?

I tend to side in the camp that believes the story aspect of wrestling is more important, but I'd be up for listening to anyone that believes the wrestling aspect is more important. As soon as someone gives a response as to why wrestling is more important, I'll post a much lengthier response as to why I believe stories are more important.

Good debating everybody!

[ballerzinc]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

Guys I love pro wrestling. I love it so much I wrote my senior thesis on the communication patterns of a pro wrestling message board. It's been in my blood since I can remember, that's why I think we need a debate thread. No name calling, just good arguments backed up by fact and voted on by members here at OS. I'm opening this to anyone who would like to debate, but keep it civil.... Feel free to add topics as we go along, but the first topic I want to debate is "Stories vs. Wrestling" what's more important to a product and why?

I tend to side in the camp that believes the story aspect of wrestling is more important, but I'd be up for listening to anyone that believes the wrestling aspect is more important. As soon as someone gives a response as to why wrestling is more important, I'll post a much lengthier response as to why I believe stories are more important.

Good debating everybody!

I think it can be close but I'm going to go with story. In a type of sport that is scripted, you must care. You can't just throw a fake fight on tv and tell people to watch. A story gives you a reason to care, it gives you an opportunity to get lost in the "world" of pro wrestling. If the story in a movie isn't good then I'm not watching and the same goes for wrestling. You need to care for the characters if your going to come back week after week, if your going to spend money every month. Also in wrestling though, is the idea of the story being told in the ring aswell. Truly great wrestling will provide a story. The story can simply be put as the most important part of the foundation of a truly great wrestling match. You must built upon it though, if you want a complete pro wrestling experience.

[JiggidyJames]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

Good idea Supe.

[Porschebenz2001]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

Good idea Supe.

Definitely. Should be a fun thread.

[JohnDoe8865]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

I think a great match can tell a great story. Stamina vs Power, Speed vs Technique, experience vs youth. I think wrestling should come first and then build the stories off of your wrestlers' strengths.

For example w/ Kurt Angle I'd build around his amateur credentials. I'd build him as a legitimate athlete and then build around his personality. With each wrestler it's different, but in general I'm not into the characters like the masked Kane and Abyss. These guys are great big men but their persona's held them back in my mind and still does a bit in terms of them being serious top guy.

I don't know, I'm better at making my opinion felt after having a point to counterpoint so to speak. I'll try to debate when I'm not so tired and otherwise occupied.

[SPTO]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

This is a great thread idea and I hope it lasts. I'll chime in especially for the historical type questions

Anyways as to this topic I hate to sound like a guy on the fence but it's really a mixture. If you look at wrestling in the 80s you had storylines running for months. Now the storylines weren't as mature as they are today but they were more gripping in a sense, why?

I think it's because you had guys who could cut great promos and who could be logical in the framework of their character. Hogan was always about "i'm facing the greatest challenge of my life but i'll kick your arse!" Flair was always the smooth talking bastard who could get away with anything and even when he won his matches in a dubious fashion he would talk as if he dominated. So these guys knew how to talk a good game and generally the story would be very logical.

Now most guys back then knew how to tell great stories in the ring. Just look at the Ricky Steamboat "ringbell to the throat" storyline. Steamboat did promos where he couldn't talk and was trying to get his voice back and such. Macho Man would talk as if he got rid of Steamboat forever. Steamboat comes back to action and in their matches around the horn and on TV/at WM Macho Man would go after the throat without mercy and there'd be times when he'd grab the ringbell and try to re-injure Steamboat. This gave their matches a heightened sense of suspense on top of the revenge angle that Steamboat was playing up.

You just don't see that kind of well crafted storytelling in the ring and outside the ring anymore with the exception of the older guys like HHH.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

I think they are both equally important, but it depends on who you are aiming to please. For the casual viewer, stories are more important. For the hardcore fan, you can let the fight carry the story. There's nothing greater than a feud that lasts months, with two or three amazing matches. Feuds like Michaels/Hart, Hart/Hart, Austin/Rock, and even in earlier times with Hogan/Savage, Savage/Steamboat, etc. They spoke for themselves.

As our society grows, the story aspect has seemingly taken over. A problem with wrestling nowadays is that not only are matches booked short, but no one can cut a promo anymore. It's a wonder what amazing promos could do for a physical fight. The build up allows us to perceive fights even better than they are because they meet anticipation.

It's all about finding the right mix.

[SPTO]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

A problem with wrestling nowadays is that not only are matches booked short, but no one can cut a promo anymore. It's a wonder what amazing promos could do for a physical fight.

This is what's killing wrestling for me these days. The guys on the roster save for a select few either can't talk or can't cut a decent promo to save their lives. I also think matches are booked shorter these days because the longer the match is the more scripted it looks and the more it exposes the weaknesses of the guys on the roster.

I don't think i've ever seen such a "green" roster in the history of any major promotion.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

It's true. And I think it's also to serve the needs of the public, because everyone's attention span is completely shot. Mine is too. Which is why I wouldn't be able to sit down and watch a 20+ minute match unless there was a good build-up to the match.

If they could figure out a way to make matches less predicable and "fresher", it would be great. The problem is actually figuring it out.

[MBizzle13]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

I think the wrestling is more important than the story.
Maybe a story leading up to the match, but soooo many rabbits are chased these days.
I know on television I love watching solid, technical matches.
I also know that when a character usually known for being shallow wrestling-wise, steps out and actually wrestles, it's amazing. (i.e. Austin v.s. Benoit in WWE during Radicals period).
But I find that at live events crowds grow weary during technical matches.

Sidenote: Off topic, your thread title made me think of the World War III deal WCW did, so I youtubed it. 60 man battle royal. Fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyFHgl3IHoo

[Dr.J]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

I think it's more about wrestling if i wanted to watch a storyline i'd watch the soaps.Wrestling should be just that good ole fashion wrestling not advance storylines that are hard to comprehend.You can have great storyline but if the two individuals involve can't wrestling for crap the storyline won't matter.

[mgoblue]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

I think the storyline is more important, but ideally the two mesh into an amazing stretch of wrestling and storytelling.

While a single amazing wrestling match can carry a bad storyline a little bit, a stellar storyline can carry a bunch of subpar wrestling matches. Getting people to be emotionally invested in the outcome of the match means that no matter how good the wrestling is, they'll still care.

[SPTO]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

While a single amazing wrestling match can carry a bad storyline a little bit, a stellar storyline can carry a bunch of subpar wrestling matches. Getting people to be emotionally invested in the outcome of the match means that no matter how good the wrestling is, they'll still care.

So you're basically advocating the WCW main event strategy then? (Yes Virginia there was a time when WCW had amazing storylines)

At least their undercard was some of the best wrestling top to bottom that was seen in years up to that point.

[Lintyfresh85]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

Agreed, while the Goldberg-Hogan match in the Georgia Dome was nothing that set the world on fire, the crowd and atmosphere was off the charts because they believed in Goldberg's build up and the hype surrounding the "undefeated streak" vs. WCW Title match.

[mgoblue]

Re: WWIII Thread... Open debate for the wrestling enthusiast

So you're basically advocating the WCW main event strategy then? (Yes Virginia there was a time when WCW had amazing storylines)

At least their undercard was some of the best wrestling top to bottom that was seen in years up to that point.

Like I said, I prefer storyline and wrestling quality to be equally good in an ideal world. I just think that for tv show ratings, a show with amazing storylines will get more ratings than a show with crappy ones but great wrestling.