The release of The Rock's DVD.

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  • Laettner32
    Banned
    • Jul 2002
    • 2873

    #16
    Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

    Originally posted by fpac
    Meh. If Flair could have gone out and made the money Rock's making in movies full time he would have left a long time ago IMO.
    Maybe, but that still doesn't make The Rock a better wrestler than Flair. I don't wanna bring up the steroid issue, but a guy like Dusty Rhodes would never make it today with his body, in the 80's he was a star, a huge star. Now, with steroids rampant..we have a different perspective on what a "mans body" should look like.

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    • CanuckJ
      MVP
      • Jan 2005
      • 1001

      #17
      Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

      I always wondered why Dusty did so well. I remember him in wwf in the early 90's and he just looked like a fat tub. But then I hear he was great in other organizations.

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      • fpac
        MVP
        • Oct 2002
        • 3830

        #18
        Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

        Originally posted by Laettner32
        Maybe, but that still doesn't make The Rock a better wrestler than Flair. I don't wanna bring up the steroid issue, but a guy like Dusty Rhodes would never make it today with his body, in the 80's he was a star, a huge star. Now, with steroids rampant..we have a different perspective on what a "mans body" should look like.
        Where did I say that Rock was a better wrestler than Flair? I didn't say anything anywhere close to that.

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        • SPTO
          binging
          • Feb 2003
          • 68046

          #19
          Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

          Originally posted by CanuckJ
          I always wondered why Dusty did so well. I remember him in wwf in the early 90's and he just looked like a fat tub. But then I hear he was great in other organizations.
          Dusty had charisma, none of that made up manufactured stuff either. I've seen plenty of promos and matches from the man and while he wasn't the greatest wrestler around he made you believe in what was going on in that ring. He was one hell of a great seller too. The man made you believe he was practically dying in the ring. Like everything else though he got way over exposed and the whole "everybody turns on Dusty" act was getting old. That, and making Flair look weak with all those Dusty Finishes more or less killed business for Crockett.

          As for Dusty's mic skills well let's put it this way. He was a white guy that sounded authentically black.


          *******

          As for the Rock I think he was a pretty good wrestler. His moveset was pretty limited especially early in his career but again the mic skills that made you believe in him as a character really made fans emotionally invested in the guy when he was in the ring.

          Here's something that I think doesn't get talked about too much but some of the biggest stars ever in modern day wrestler and i'm including Hogan in this were tremendous when it came to selling the pain being inflicted to oneself in the ring. I think that's why Hogan lasted as long as he did in some respects. There were times early in the Hulkamania years where you genuinely thought "oh no, Hogan could lose!". The same goes for the Rock, there were times in the ring where you thought there was no chance he could win yet he'd pull the proverbial rabbit out of the hat.
          Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

          "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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          • JiggidyJames
            All Star
            • Apr 2005
            • 5267

            #20
            Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

            Flair, Rock...the greatest is Hogan.
            xbl gamertag: jiggidyjames72

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            • SPTO
              binging
              • Feb 2003
              • 68046

              #21
              Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

              Originally posted by JiggidyJames
              Flair, Rock...the greatest is Hogan.
              Greatest media creation yes, greatest wrestler? Not by a country mile.
              Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

              "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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              • Laettner32
                Banned
                • Jul 2002
                • 2873

                #22
                Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

                Originally posted by JiggidyJames
                Flair, Rock...the greatest is Hogan.
                Hogan may very well have been the most well known/popular. When I was a kid, I don't remember seeing very much of him wrestling at all. But I knew who he was. I remember freakin' out when I saw him in Rocky (3?) as Thunderlips. I was amazed at how big he was compared to Rocky.

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                • MassNole
                  Banned
                  • Mar 2006
                  • 18848

                  #23
                  Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

                  Originally posted by Laettner32
                  Hogan may very well have been the most well known/popular. When I was a kid, I don't remember seeing very much of him wrestling at all. But I knew who he was. I remember freakin' out when I saw him in Rocky (3?) as Thunderlips. I was amazed at how big he was compared to Rocky.
                  Well it Sly Stalone is a dwarf, so towering over him doesn't mean much.

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                  • JiggidyJames
                    All Star
                    • Apr 2005
                    • 5267

                    #24
                    Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

                    Originally posted by SPTO
                    Greatest media creation yes, greatest wrestler? Not by a country mile.
                    Please.

                    He made more money than anyone except Austin. Without Hogan blazing the path, Austin doesn't. In fact, American wrestling probably wouldn't exist on a big stage after 1998, or even earlier, without him.

                    I mean come on, WORKING is connecting with the crowd and DRAWING MONEY. He did it better than anyone up to that point. How many times has another American wrestler drawn 15 million (or was it 33 million?) people to their TVs in North America? Hogan could have easily failed in '84, but he didn't. For 15 years he was the number one drawing wrestler in the land. 15 years! That doesn't happen by fluke or some other nonsense. He had the charisma and tlent. He was even a huge star in Japan where everything is so serious. You even said it yourself about people buying into his comebacks...so what, that's not wrestling?

                    We could sit here for years and split atoms on who had the greatest matches, but as far as what REALLY matters, Hogan has everyone beat.

                    Popularity & Money > "Great" Matches, everytime.
                    Last edited by JiggidyJames; 06-16-2008, 05:25 PM.
                    xbl gamertag: jiggidyjames72

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                    • The 24th Letter
                      ERA
                      • Oct 2007
                      • 39373

                      #25
                      Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

                      Originally posted by SPTO
                      Greatest media creation yes, greatest wrestler? Not by a country mile.
                      if you dont think Hogan is the greatest thas understood and arguable...but to call Hogans status a media creation is...I cant even find the right phrase for it..

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                      • Laettner32
                        Banned
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 2873

                        #26
                        Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

                        No question w/o Hogan, wrestling may not be what it is today. He put it on his shoulders in the late 70's/early 80's. My own personal beef w/ him was how due to his "creative control" clause in his contract, he refused to lose....to anybody! If he did lose, it was because of interference/disqualification. And even those were rare. Did he put anybody "over" in his career? Flair made many peoples career in wrestling by putting them over. Hell, I still crack up at the bit were Flair would argue/push the ref...then the ref would push back and Flair would crash to the mat like he was hit from a shotgun blast. Hogan wouldn't do that for a ref much less for Flair himself. I don't think I'm the only one either. Again this is just my personal opinion, Hogan is still Hulk Freakin' Hogan don't get me wrong but he's a little like Santa Claus...when your a kid he's the best thing ever, as you get older..he's just not all that you thought he was.

                        p.s., you don't wanna get me on how Hogan helped kill the WCW.
                        Last edited by Laettner32; 06-17-2008, 06:43 AM.

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                        • SPTO
                          binging
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 68046

                          #27
                          Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

                          Originally posted by The 24th Letter
                          if you dont think Hogan is the greatest thas understood and arguable...but to call Hogans status a media creation is...I cant even find the right phrase for it..
                          I was using hyperbole to make a point

                          I'll say this, Hogan was the first guy that used the media and exploited his wrestling fame to gain mainstream success but he surely wasn't the best wrestler ever. Working the crowd is a huge part of wrestling but there's a few other guys i'd put over Hogan for the whole overall package. Guys like Flair, Stone Cold, Rock and HBK were guys at their prime that were insanely popular in and out of the ring.

                          Of course none were as popular as Hogan so I got to give him props for that. I just wonder how you guys would be talking about all this if McMahon had used Dusty Rhodes instead which was a distinct possibility. McMahon was oh so very close to slotting Rhodes in the position that Hogan occupied in 1984. Would the WWF have exploded into the corporation that it is today? Probably not but it'd still be damn popular.
                          Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                          "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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                          • JiggidyJames
                            All Star
                            • Apr 2005
                            • 5267

                            #28
                            Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

                            Originally posted by SPTO
                            Of course none were as popular as Hogan so I got to give him props for that. I just wonder how you guys would be talking about all this if McMahon had used Dusty Rhodes instead which was a distinct possibility. McMahon was oh so very close to slotting Rhodes in the position that Hogan occupied in 1984. Would the WWF have exploded into the corporation that it is today? Probably not but it'd still be damn popular.
                            It wouldn't have worked with anyone but Hogan. He had the look, the charisma and the skill. He was the total opposite of the southern fat guys who looked like crap. No way Dusty would've worked, and I don't know where you got that story because the only other option was Kerry Von Erich. KVE would've cracked with that pressure if his weak promos didn't kill him first.

                            It's not like Vince could just put anyone in that spot. Hogan was already a big star in the AWA AND Japan even before Vince Sr. sold Titan. For as great a promoter Vince is, Hogan had to be that talented to do that before he came to WWF.

                            So if it's not Hogan, it just doesn't work. And if it doesn't work, Vince is not only out of business in '85, he's flat broke himself.

                            Did he have great matches? Quite a few, believe it or not. Did others consistently have better? Yes. But all that is subjective. I mean, how can anyone argue, for example, who the better wrestler is between a Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair, without talking drawing power? Did more people pay to see Hogan than anyone else? Yes. That's the measuring stick as far as I'm concerned.

                            HBK is probably my all time favorite. But you know what? He was garbage on top. He had great matches, but for what? $20k houses? Hogan draws 75k+ people on two contitents. Isn't that the point of this fake fighting stuff? Yeah, it is. And that is what makes Hogan the best wrestler. I mean, someone could say Austin, but have I my own arguements against that.
                            Last edited by JiggidyJames; 06-17-2008, 03:44 PM.
                            xbl gamertag: jiggidyjames72

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                            • SPTO
                              binging
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 68046

                              #29
                              Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

                              Dusty was a last resort option....then again I got that from Dusty so maybe it's a pile of dung.

                              I'm not going to dog Hogan he made wrestling what it is today for better or for worse. I just prefer the other guys I listed over him.
                              Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                              "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                              Comment

                              • Laettner32
                                Banned
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 2873

                                #30
                                Re: The release of The Rock's DVD.

                                Originally posted by SPTO
                                Dusty was a last resort option....then again I got that from Dusty so maybe it's a pile of dung.

                                I'm not going to dog Hogan he made wrestling what it is today for better or for worse. I just prefer the other guys I listed over him.
                                Well said.

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