End the Brand Split

[TheMatrix31]

Re: End the Brand Split

If they're gonna keep the brands split, then they MUST do a better job of restoring prestige to lower belts. Guys like Truth, Kofi, Mysterio, Riley, etc simply have no business fighting for world titles. I know Kofi and Riley haven't been in the world title picture, obviously, but you get the point. Those guys are way, WAY better suited for Euro/IC/cruiser titles. A belt like the IC belt should be held in extremely high regard, and the best IC champions should be the ones pushed to world title/main event status.

In this era of instant gratification, the company (and everyone overall) is looking for the next big thing. They get rushed and most of them fade back into total oblivion. Swagger was the world champion last year, and this year, the only thing I remember him for is being a stooge in one of the worst feuds of all-time.

[Streets]

Re: End the Brand Split

This made me think about the attitude era. I remember when the Rock won his first title at Survivor Series, there was a tournament for the vacated title. i decided to look up who was in it since it was one big roster in a stronger era (as the OP suggests). Mind you the tournament was much bigger, but lets see who made the cut, shall we...

Mankind vs. Duane Gill

Al Snow vs. Jeff Jarrett

Big Boss Man vs. Steve Austin

X-Pac vs. Stephen Regal

Ken Shamrock vs. Golddust

Big Boss Man (again) vs. The Rock

Round 2:

Undertaker vs. Kane (both received round 1 byes)

There were four legit title contenders in this match featuring nine guys (Rock, Austin, Kane, Taker) Foley was on the cusp and got a monster push right after the tourney. I know Triple H wasn't involved, but neither were Punk and Cena in Raw's tournament.

I'd run down the rest of the list but they speak for themselves... resident jobbers and midcarders on a PAY PER VIEW tournament on what is supposedly a "superior era" with one brand.

Take off the rose-colored goggles and you'll see Raw is doing just fine (again, especially considering no Cena or Punk in the tourney).

Can we close this thread yet?

[ty5oke]

Re: End the Brand Split

Ya, the names weren't that great but the purpose of the tournament was to set-up for the corporation to succeed. I just watched this PPV a few weeks ago.

Going into the PPV, the whole purpose from Vince McMahon was to make sure that SCSA didn't win the title. Bossman at the time was the bodygaurd for McMahon and thus the reason he was included in the first round to face Austin. The storyline going into the PPV had Mankind portrayed as McMahon's man and thus the reason of Duane Gill in the first round vs him. Big Bossman vs The Rock in first round, was suppose to be HHH (but he was still injuried). The Bossman coming in was to add to the swerve of the Rock actually becoming the corporate champ later that evening.

The other wrestlers involved were just fillers, but the whole purpose of this tournament was to get the Corporation over as much as possible by screwing SCSA and Mankind, while turning the Rock into one of the greatest Heel roles. In that case, they succeeded.

[johnnywobbles]

Re: End the Brand Split

If they're gonna keep the brands split, then they MUST do a better job of restoring prestige to lower belts. Guys like Truth, Kofi, Mysterio, Riley, etc simply have no business fighting for world titles. I know Kofi and Riley haven't been in the world title picture, obviously, but you get the point. Those guys are way, WAY better suited for Euro/IC/cruiser titles. A belt like the IC belt should be held in extremely high regard, and the best IC champions should be the ones pushed to world title/main event status.

In this era of instant gratification, the company (and everyone overall) is looking for the next big thing. They get rushed and most of them fade back into total oblivion. Swagger was the world champion last year, and this year, the only thing I remember him for is being a stooge in one of the worst feuds of all-time.

Exactly. They are already showing promos for the guy who won Tough Enough. There is no way he is ready to be a focal point of WWE television. He was just a few weeks ago, looked nervous, not good on the mic, and those are key elements.

Television has now become the test for new wrestlers when in the past, you did not get on tv until you were ready.

[Streets]

Re: End the Brand Split

Ya, the names weren't that great but the purpose of the tournament was to set-up for the corporation to succeed. I just watched this PPV a few weeks ago.

Going into the PPV, the whole purpose from Vince McMahon was to make sure that SCSA didn't win the title. Bossman at the time was the bodygaurd for McMahon and thus the reason he was included in the first round to face Austin. The storyline going into the PPV had Mankind portrayed as McMahon's man and thus the reason of Duane Gill in the first round vs him. Big Bossman vs The Rock in first round, was suppose to be HHH (but he was still injuried). The Bossman coming in was to add to the swerve of the Rock actually becoming the corporate champ later that evening.

The other wrestlers involved were just fillers, but the whole purpose of this tournament was to get the Corporation over as much as possible by screwing SCSA and Mankind, while turning the Rock into one of the greatest Heel roles. In that case, they succeeded.

Right... the point of the tournament was to get the corporation over. SO take out the corporation and the heavy hitters and you still have the X-Pac's, Regals, Goldust's, Snow's, Jarrett's, and on down the line. The fact is in a PPV (a big 4 PPV tournament no less) you have many a midcarder.

And you just made my point for me. Every tournament or even big match like the Elimination Chamber or MITB will have guys who are "fillers" as you call them. It's no different now than it was then, but people complain about the now and use it as a reason to end the brand split ignoring all the good it has done. People just like to complain even when the product is super hot right now and on an upswing, SMH. Last night's fillers were A-Ry and Kingston at most.

A-Ry gets a rub just being in the tournament with those guys, and it adds to his feud with the Miz. He can "get over" just being in the tournament.

Dolph and Swagger are former World Champions, Miz and Rey flat out deserve to be there, Del Rio has won Royal Rumble, MITB, and competed for the World title at Mania, R-Truth is super over as a heel and just headlined a PPV with Cena. I'll take any of these guys over the "fillers" in the Survivor Series tournament.

[ty5oke]

Re: End the Brand Split

Right... the point of the tournament was to get the corporation over. SO take out the corporation and the heavy hitters and you still have the X-Pac's, Regals, Goldust's, Snow's, Jarrett's, and on down the line. The fact is in a PPV (a big 4 PPV tournament no less) you have many a midcarder.

And you just made my point for me. Every tournament or even big match like the Elimination Chamber or MITB will have guys who are "fillers" as you call them. It's no different now than it was then, but people complain about the now and use it as a reason to end the brand split ignoring all the good it has done. People just like to complain even when the product is super hot right now and on an upswing, SMH. Last night's fillers were A-Ry and Kingston at most.

A-Ry gets a rub just being in the tournament with those guys, and it adds to his feud with the Miz. He can "get over" just being in the tournament.

Dolph and Swagger are former World Champions, Miz and Rey flat out deserve to be there, Del Rio has won Royal Rumble, MITB, and competed for the World title at Mania, R-Truth is super over as a heel and just headlined a PPV with Cena. I'll take any of these guys over the "fillers" in the Survivor Series tournament.

I'm glad I helped make your point. I really didn't have an opinion on this brand split subject as I don't really follow the WWE, until this CM Punk story. I just thought that the tournament for that PPV was more about the Corporation than having your best in it for the world title.

Come to think of it, there wasn't really any one else to put in there. They had HHH/HBK both out and I can't think of anyone else at that time that would of been a main eventer.

[Streets]

Re: End the Brand Split

I'm glad I helped make your point. I really didn't have an opinion on this brand split subject as I don't really follow the WWE, until this CM Punk story. I just thought that the tournament for that PPV was more about the Corporation than having your best in it for the world title.

Come to think of it, there wasn't really any one else to put in there. They had HHH/HBK both out and I can't think of anyone else at that time that would of been a main eventer.

Getting the corporation over is a moot point when it comes to the fact that regardless the rest of the tournament still had to be filled with Al Snow's and X-Pac's. Yet when A-Ry and Swagger make this tournament it's cause for not only a rant in the Raw thread, but a separate thread all together repeating the exact same thing.

So if that's what one brand's tournament looked like in a "stronger era", WWE has more than enough talent for two brands in this one. Here's what a vacated Smackdown title tourney might look like...

Orton
Barrett

Bryan
Henry

Rhodes
Kane

Christian
Sheamus

Not too bad here either, and I'd definitely say this field of competitors is stronger top to bottom than the SS tourney (Not to mention the Undertaker is still on the Smackdown brand).

I also forgot that on Raw, not only were Punk and Cena not included, but Morrison is injured as well!

[rangerrick012]

Re: End the Brand Split

Exactly. They are already showing promos for the guy who won Tough Enough. There is no way he is ready to be a focal point of WWE television. He was just a few weeks ago, looked nervous, not good on the mic, and those are key elements.

Television has now become the test for new wrestlers when in the past, you did not get on tv until you were ready.

But Andy's in FCW right now working to the point where he should be ready for TV. The promos are doing nothing other than keeping him in people's minds while he's in developmental.

Pre-debut vignettes have always existed. Always. WWE used them last year for ADR and it helped him get over the first night he debuted. Same with Sin Cara, though he debuted when he wasn't ready, but WWE had so much invested in him being the new Mysterio they were going to push him regardless before the drug failure.

Streets' is right on with his 'rose colored glasses' comment. I think in the past circa late 90s the stregnth at the top of the roster was greater, but now the talent is deeper on the roster. Like I said earlier, talented guys like Drew Mac and Zack Ryder can't even get TV time. So it's not like the talent is lacking compared to the past.

And I still don't know who the guys are who you consider 'glorified jobbers' who wouldn't be on TV in the past. I admit that I used to have the RCG when looking at the Attitude era as well. And though it was fun w/ the storylines, the actual in ring action at times was atrocious and today's product purely in ring is much better.