RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

[Slymm]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

The problem with Smackdown is that there is just absolutely no way they can ever win a week in a landslide. It will always be "good but not great".

Look at the roster and how limited it is. The only way they can come close to a Raw moment is if they hot shot Miz or Slater to the title. AJ Styles has been their MVP and even though I think he's awesome, he is very limited from a character standpoint. Ambrose has been one of the worst champions we've had in recent history. Ziggler/Ambrose was really a waste of time as nothing changed from the feud for either character.

They brought American Alpha in to carry the tag division but did it without giving them any sort of character development. The magic of Alpha in NXT was in the fact that Jason Jordan was a jobber for the majority of his time in NXT and tried a number of different tag partners until Gable was the only person left for him to tag with, reluctantly and found magic together. They got none of this on the main roster and this is why they haven't hit yet.

I do like what they are doing with the women's division, but I can only tolerate so many 6-women tag team matches. Hopefully once they crown a champion we'll have a little clearer vision.

I like Smackdown, I used to never watch it before the draft. Just as it was in the past, it is the consistent workrate show. I'm sure that Shelton Benjamin getting hurt definitely created some issues with what they had planned but you have a ready made guy in Samoa Joe that is just waiting to get brought up to help the brand.

[redsox4evur]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

The problem with Smackdown is that there is just absolutely no way they can ever win a week in a landslide. It will always be "good but not great".



Look at the roster and how limited it is. The only way they can come close to a Raw moment is if they hot shot Miz or Slater to the title. AJ Styles has been their MVP and even though I think he's awesome, he is very limited from a character standpoint. Ambrose has been one of the worst champions we've had in recent history. Ziggler/Ambrose was really a waste of time as nothing changed from the feud for either character.



They brought American Alpha in to carry the tag division but did it without giving them any sort of character development. The magic of Alpha in NXT was in the fact that Jason Jordan was a jobber for the majority of his time in NXT and tried a number of different tag partners until Gable was the only person left for him to tag with, reluctantly and found magic together. They got none of this on the main roster and this is why they haven't hit yet.



I do like what they are doing with the women's division, but I can only tolerate so many 6-women tag team matches. Hopefully once they crown a champion we'll have a little clearer vision.



I like Smackdown, I used to never watch it before the draft. Just as it was in the past, it is the consistent workrate show. I'm sure that Shelton Benjamin getting hurt definitely created some issues with what they had planned but you have a ready made guy in Samoa Joe that is just waiting to get brought up to help the brand.

Samoa Joe is hurt.


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[Slymm]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

Samoa Joe is hurt.


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But he won't always be. Joe, Nakamura and Joe aren't getting any younger.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

AJ Styles has been their MVP and even though I think he's awesome, he is very limited from a character standpoint.

How so? The only role he's been given, he's ****ing thrived in. I think at this point, he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

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[Slymm]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

How so? The only role he's been given, he's ****ing thrived in. I think at this point, he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

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From a character standpoint do you see AJ being a guy who can transcend the brand and Cary it on his back like a Cena or Lesnar? Is he a guy that people are going to want to book on their talk shows or ESPN car wash?

Like I said, AJ is great but in my opinion his ceiling beyond being a world class wrestler is not as high as a Rollins or even Reigns.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

From a character standpoint do you see AJ being a guy who can transcend the brand and Cary it on his back like a Cena or Lesnar? Is he a guy that people are going to want to book on their talk shows or ESPN car wash?

Like I said, AJ is great but in my opinion his ceiling beyond being a world class wrestler is not as high as a Rollins or even Reigns.

Yes. I have no reason to not think so at this point. I used to think AJ was horrible on the mic and never improve. He's awesome on the mic. Thought he could never be a main guy in WWE. He's the guy on Smackdown, if nothing else and I have no reason to believe he wouldn't be one of the main guys on Raw. And, he #BeatUpJohnCena.

Like I said, imo, he's earned the benefit of the doubt. Pretty sure none of us thought that in 2016 he's be in line for winning the WWE world title.

[Slymm]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

Yes. I have no reason to not think so at this point. I used to think AJ was horrible on the mic and never improve. He's awesome on the mic. Thought he could never be a main guy in WWE. He's the guy on Smackdown, if nothing else and I have no reason to believe he wouldn't be one of the main guys on Raw. And, he #BeatUpJohnCena.

Like I said, imo, he's earned the benefit of the doubt. Pretty sure none of us thought that in 2016 he's be in line for winning the WWE world title.

We'love agree to disagree at this point. He's earned the benefit of your doubt. I'd like to see him continue to prove it. Being the man on Smackdown is very different to being the man on Raw. I love AJ and have been with him from TNA to NJPW. I put him as a tier 2 superstar with Orton, Reigns, etc.

[Streets]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

The problem with Smackdown is that there is just absolutely no way they can ever win a week in a landslide. It will always be "good but not great".

Look at the roster and how limited it is. The only way they can come close to a Raw moment is if they hot shot Miz or Slater to the title. AJ Styles has been their MVP and even though I think he's awesome, he is very limited from a character standpoint. Ambrose has been one of the worst champions we've had in recent history. Ziggler/Ambrose was really a waste of time as nothing changed from the feud for either character.

They brought American Alpha in to carry the tag division but did it without giving them any sort of character development. The magic of Alpha in NXT was in the fact that Jason Jordan was a jobber for the majority of his time in NXT and tried a number of different tag partners until Gable was the only person left for him to tag with, reluctantly and found magic together. They got none of this on the main roster and this is why they haven't hit yet.

I do like what they are doing with the women's division, but I can only tolerate so many 6-women tag team matches. Hopefully once they crown a champion we'll have a little clearer vision.

I like Smackdown, I used to never watch it before the draft. Just as it was in the past, it is the consistent workrate show. I'm sure that Shelton Benjamin getting hurt definitely created some issues with what they had planned but you have a ready made guy in Samoa Joe that is just waiting to get brought up to help the brand.

I absolutely disagree that Smackdown can't put on a show like Raw. It's more about booking than talent. There's no reason to believe that Ziggler or Wyatt couldn't have had a Kevin Owens moment. I think the best segment to happen on the blue brand was Miz's promo toward Bryan. If that happens on the main show and something else major happens like Wyatt shocking the world, you have the makings of an A+ show. However, the followup to Miz Bryan was weak. Nothing has changed with Bray Wyatt. When he talks, it's all gibberish and it's hard to take him seriously with how he's been booked. Ziggler has gotten much better on the mic and there's a fire in his eyes but he's still just been jobbing to the stars, same as he did before the split. I think a three hour show is harder to fill so when both shows have a week that is "good but not great" smackdown will usually win because it drags less.

[Streets]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

We'love agree to disagree at this point. He's earned the benefit of your doubt. I'd like to see him continue to prove it. Being the man on Smackdown is very different to being the man on Raw. I love AJ and have been with him from TNA to NJPW. I put him as a tier 2 superstar with Orton, Reigns, etc.

I agree with this but neither brand has a champion that transcends wrestling, nor do they need one. There are two guys like that, and each show has one. SD has the one that shows up more consistently. So I'd say both shows are even in this regard.

[Slymm]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

I absolutely disagree that Smackdown can't put on a show like Raw. It's more about booking than talent. There's no reason to believe that Ziggler or Wyatt couldn't have had a Kevin Owens moment. I think the best segment to happen on the blue brand was Miz's promo toward Bryan. If that happens on the main show and something else major happens like Wyatt shocking the world, you have the makings of an A+ show. However, the followup to Miz Bryan was weak. Nothing has changed with Bray Wyatt. When he talks, it's all gibberish and it's hard to take him seriously with how he's been booked. Ziggler has gotten much better on the mic and there's a fire in his eyes but he's still just been jobbing to the stars, same as he did before the split. I think a three hour show is harder to fill so when both shows have a week that is "good but not great" smackdown will usually win because it drags less.

3 weeks ago I would have agreed with you on Ziggler and Wyatt. I have honestly lost all trust in their writers to make it happen for them though. Summerslam was Ziggler's chance to get back to where he was when he cashed in on Del Rio years a go but they basically had a storyline set up around the fact that Ziggler was a good hand for the company but he didn't have what it took to win the big one, he couldn't win the big one and time had passed him by. Instead of him getting over the hump and proving the doubters wrong as he said he would leading up to the event, what happens? He has a pretty good match, he didn't win the big one and now it looks like time is passing him by. He's probably going to lose to Miz (bringing his recent feud losses to Miz, Ambrose, Corbin). I can't take more months of getting my hopes up for him only for him to fail. It's a wrap for him.

Bray on the other hand has an opportunity because even though he's lost more feuds than I can count at this point he hasn't been built up to big events only to lose like Ziggler has. He has just been hovering on the edges of Wrestlemania and Summer Slam this year.

I guess I mispoke when I made it sound like Smackdown did not have talent. In terms of overall talent I'd say that guys like Ziggler, Bray, AJ, Miz, Ambrose, Crews, Ryder all have talent. They have just been treated like scrubs, misfits and booked poorly for so long that it's hard to believe in them (their characters). I look at how people have been booked on Raw recently (Cass/Enzo, Rusev, Owens/Jericho, New Day, Roman, Rollins, etc) and Smackdown (Ziggler, Ambrose, American Alpha, AJ, etc.) and it's pretty obvious that one show's guys have been booked like stars and the other's has not. AJ has been the best booked guy on Smackdown as a whole, but I was not feeling the end of this week's show with AJ/Ambrose.

[Slymm]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

I agree with this but neither brand has a champion that transcends wrestling, nor do they need one. There are two guys like that, and each show has one. SD has the one that shows up more consistently. So I'd say both shows are even in this regard.

I do think that they do need guys (preferably main event guys) that can go on late night talk shows, movies, ESPN, etc. "We" don't need them to because we smarks but they need them to. My favorite person right now is NXT champion and English is his second language.

[Streets]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

3 weeks ago I would have agreed with you on Ziggler and Wyatt. I have honestly lost all trust in their writers to make it happen for them though. Summerslam was Ziggler's chance to get back to where he was when he cashed in on Del Rio years a go but they basically had a storyline set up around the fact that Ziggler was a good hand for the company but he didn't have what it took to win the big one, he couldn't win the big one and time had passed him by. Instead of him getting over the hump and proving the doubters wrong as he said he would leading up to the event, what happens? He has a pretty good match, he didn't win the big one and now it looks like time is passing him by. He's probably going to lose to Miz (bringing his recent feud losses to Miz, Ambrose, Corbin). I can't take more months of getting my hopes up for him only for him to fail. It's a wrap for him.

Bray on the other hand has an opportunity because even though he's lost more feuds than I can count at this point he hasn't been built up to big events only to lose like Ziggler has. He has just been hovering on the edges of Wrestlemania and Summer Slam this year.

I guess I mispoke when I made it sound like Smackdown did not have talent. In terms of overall talent I'd say that guys like Ziggler, Bray, AJ, Miz, Ambrose, Crews, Ryder all have talent. They have just been treated like scrubs, misfits and booked poorly for so long that it's hard to believe in them (their characters). I look at how people have been booked on Raw recently (Cass/Enzo, Rusev, Owens/Jericho, New Day, Roman, Rollins, etc) and Smackdown (Ziggler, Ambrose, American Alpha, AJ, etc.) and it's pretty obvious that one show's guys have been booked like stars and the other's has not. AJ has been the best booked guy on Smackdown as a whole, but I was not feeling the end of this week's show with AJ/Ambrose.

You kind of made my point for me. It's not just about talent but about booking too. SD could have booked Ziggler better and gave him a Balor moment but chose to play it safe and now will either get the IC title that will do nothing for him and take from someone who's killing it right now or will lose yet again (no win). The only thing that can help him now is a heel turn after he gets frustrated about giving his all and losing every week.

Btw, I give it to Raw this week off the strength of Owens, Rollins and Jericho. Yes they could have done much much more to follow last week but it was still better than SD which was pure garbage. Foley, Steph and Sasha were good too. I'm one of the only people here who still like New Day it seems. Hope they catch Demolition!

[reyes the roof]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

I just got to watch Smackdown, I seem to be in the minority here but I preferred Smackdown this week. The show had an 80s feel to it with heels doing mean/heelish things, ie The Miz, Usos, and AJ at the end. I find matches a lot more enjoyable when the heel isn't trying to be cool or funny

[cima]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

Stole this from reddit, but it's a good summation IMO of RAW vs SDL:

Smackdown this week was really brilliant in parts and i think this is why: the matches and results matter to the competitors in realistic ways.

The Miz/Ziggler title vs. career match has serious gravity to it, i could feel the passion from both of them. You could tell that they believed the things they're saying. Will Ziggler leave, or will they end Miz's recent rise to prominence? It's actually uncertain.

Similarly with Cena's role in the title picture. If they continue like this, i'd say Cena's characterisation is the best its ever been for him. Beating that record matters to him, maintaining his spot while pursuing Hollywood matters to him, plus he addressed real life context in a believable way. I'm not going to rant about Ambrose, but him too to some extent.

Compare that to Clash of Champions. New Day are presented as a comedy act that see a potentially record breaking title run as fun and games, Roman/Rusev fought over petty issues and Owens/Rollins fought over who got to be teachers pet more than their careers. I could go on and on, but they gave us no reason to care about the results. I think it really erodes the fans enjoyment and that explains why business is declining for WWE (ratings and live attendances).

[reyes the roof]

Re: RAW vs Smackdown Live: Week by Week

Who are the big winners of the brand split so far? Owens and Styles obviously, but I think AJ was destined for a run as champ regardless of a brand split. The Miz, Becky Lynch, and Heath Slater have really benefitted on Smackdown, and Ziggler and Bray to an extent but I'll need to see some long term success from them two. They have a tendency to just get thrown in a meaningful feud and then a month later they're doing nothing. The only other guys that have really benefitted on Raw seem to be Cesaro and Sheamus and I guess you could throw Jericho and Big Cass in that conversation