FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

[Hooe]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

I think the Big 12 may help more than people think. FSU may be a strong program with history, but they are recruiting kids to play in a pretty weak conference. The chance to play in FLA and play Oklahoma and Texas in strong football conference that is on national TV a lot will improve their recruiting vs. Florida.

I think the ACC was a bigger anchor on FSU than the other way around.

Florida State recruiting class ranks over the past ten years, per Rivals:

2012: #6
2011: #2
2010: #10
2009: #7
2008: #9
2007: #21
2006: #3
2005: #2
2004: #3
2003: #21
2002: #4

I think it's pretty evident that the ACC is not hindering Florida State's apparent ability to bring in top talent each year whatsoever.

[Marino]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

Florida State is not killing the ACC. The ACC is being destroyed by John Swofford and his poor mistakes as the leader of the ACC.

He banked big time on Miami and Virginia Tech when the conference expanded, and only VT panned out. That plus the rise of the SEC in football has led to a lot more recruits going over to the SEC, in many places taking away from the ACC.

When most people who actually follow the ACC look at it, the issues at hand come from within the commissioner's office, not based on school alone.

[MrClemson]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

It helps that they also likely have the best quarterback in the conference in Logan Thomas, albeit the league actually has a large number of good starting quarterbacks right now.

Wow, best in the conference? uhhh are you serious?

Boyd took over as the starter in 2011. After nine games, Boyd had completed 195 of 318 passes for 2,674 yards and 25 touchdowns. At that point, he ranked third in passing touchdowns and seventh in passing yardage among all NCAA Division I FBS quarterbacks.
Boyd led the Tigers to a 10-3 record, winning the ACC Championship and setting up a game against West Virginia in the Orange Bowl. Although the Tigers lost the Orange Bowl in record fashion, 70-33, Boyd had a highly successful year. He finished the year completing 298 of 499 passes for 3828 yards and 33 passing touchdowns. He also ran for 218 yards and five touchdowns. Boyd has been mentioned as a possible 2012 Heisman Trophy candidate

Thomas had 3,013 yards and 19 TD's. They had almost exactly the same completion % and almost the same ints. Boyd had a better passer rating too.
Also, did I mention one big thing that separates them is the fact that Clemson beat Virginia tech twice by a combined score of 61-13.

So tell me, who's better?

[Hooe]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

Wow, best in the conference? uhhh are you serious?

Boyd took over as the starter in 2011. After nine games, Boyd had completed 195 of 318 passes for 2,674 yards and 25 touchdowns. At that point, he ranked third in passing touchdowns and seventh in passing yardage among all NCAA Division I FBS quarterbacks.
Boyd led the Tigers to a 10-3 record, winning the ACC Championship and setting up a game against West Virginia in the Orange Bowl. Although the Tigers lost the Orange Bowl in record fashion, 70-33, Boyd had a highly successful year. He finished the year completing 298 of 499 passes for 3828 yards and 33 passing touchdowns. He also ran for 218 yards and five touchdowns. Boyd has been mentioned as a possible 2012 Heisman Trophy candidate

Thomas had 3,013 yards and 19 TD's. They had almost exactly the same completion % and almost the same ints. Boyd had a better passer rating too.
Also, did I mention one big thing that separates them is the fact that Clemson beat Virginia tech twice by a combined score of 61-13.

So tell me, who's better?

There's a reason Logan Thomas is being projected as a Top 10 pick in quite a number of 2013 NFL Mock Drafts and Boyd isn't. Stats don't tell the entire story, and neither do game results which are affected by the play of at least 21 other players on the respective teams.

One factor is the system. Of course Boyd is going to put up superior numbers in the track-meet spread passing offense that Clemson has. Though Virginia Tech has evolved their offensive philosophy somewhat over the past five years, David Wilson and Ryan Williams didn't become first- and second-round picks by accident.

I'd also argue that Thomas has better pocket presence - he took half as many sacks as Boyd, though the system argument also applies here. I also think Thomas has the strongest arm out of any quarterback in the ACC, and easily has the highest ceiling. Thomas is also at-worst just as effective as a runner than Boyd, if not moreso due to simply being gargantuan for a man of his athletic ability (he's like 6'6"-270) and also possessing better feel for what's happening on the entirety of the field.

This is not an attempt to knock Boyd; as I said, he's one of many good quarterbacks in the ACC. It's my opinion, and the opinion of many others, that Logan Thomas, at this juncture, is better.

Also, none of the ACC quarterbacks at this juncture are bulletproof; they're all good, but none of them are, going into the season, worthy of being discussed in the same breath as a guy like Matt Barkley, Landry Jones, Andrew Luck, or Robert Griffin III. Can any of them put themselves in that conversation? We'll see.

Finally, for the record, you're talking to a Virginia fan; I'm not in the business of talking up Hokies, I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em.

#offtopic

[Marino]

Plus, the way Clemson finished the season by coming to Carter Finley and getting their *** beat by a State team who at the time was struggling. Then, the embarrassment of all embarrassments in that bowl game, Clemson fans probably should not be as cocky. Being the best in the ACC, is like being the tallest midget.

[lonewolf371]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

Wow, best in the conference? uhhh are you serious?

Boyd took over as the starter in 2011. After nine games, Boyd had completed 195 of 318 passes for 2,674 yards and 25 touchdowns. At that point, he ranked third in passing touchdowns and seventh in passing yardage among all NCAA Division I FBS quarterbacks.
Boyd led the Tigers to a 10-3 record, winning the ACC Championship and setting up a game against West Virginia in the Orange Bowl. Although the Tigers lost the Orange Bowl in record fashion, 70-33, Boyd had a highly successful year. He finished the year completing 298 of 499 passes for 3828 yards and 33 passing touchdowns. He also ran for 218 yards and five touchdowns. Boyd has been mentioned as a possible 2012 Heisman Trophy candidate

Thomas had 3,013 yards and 19 TD's. They had almost exactly the same completion % and almost the same ints. Boyd had a better passer rating too.
Also, did I mention one big thing that separates them is the fact that Clemson beat Virginia tech twice by a combined score of 61-13.

So tell me, who's better?

Whoa man. I was pretty skeptical of your post, but then I saw the big red text and I had to agree.

There's a reason Logan Thomas is being projected as a Top 10 pick in quite a number of 2013 NFL Mock Drafts and Boyd isn't. Stats don't tell the entire story, and neither do game results which are affected by the play of at least 21 other players on the respective teams.

One factor is the system. Of course Boyd is going to put up superior numbers in the track-meet spread passing offense that Clemson has. Though Virginia Tech has evolved their offensive philosophy somewhat over the past five years, David Wilson and Ryan Williams didn't become first- and second-round picks by accident.

I'd also argue that Thomas has better pocket presence - he took half as many sacks as Boyd, though the system argument also applies here. I also think Thomas has the strongest arm out of any quarterback in the ACC, and easily has the highest ceiling. Thomas is also at-worst just as effective as a runner than Boyd, if not moreso due to simply being gargantuan for a man of his athletic ability (he's like 6'6"-270) and also possessing better feel for what's happening on the entirety of the field.

This is not an attempt to knock Boyd; as I said, he's one of many good quarterbacks in the ACC. It's my opinion, and the opinion of many others, that Logan Thomas, at this juncture, is better.

Also, none of the ACC quarterbacks at this juncture are bulletproof; they're all good, but none of them are, going into the season, worthy of being discussed in the same breath as a guy like Matt Barkley, Landry Jones, Andrew Luck, or Robert Griffin III. Can any of them put themselves in that conversation? We'll see.

Finally, for the record, you're talking to a Virginia fan; I'm not in the business of talking up Hokies, I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em.

#offtopic

Logan Thomas is pretty good, but I'm not sure he'll look good next year since I believe Virginia Tech only returns two of their 11 starters on offense.

[Hooe]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

Logan Thomas is pretty good, but I'm not sure he'll look good next year since I believe Virginia Tech only returns two of their 11 starters on offense.

Again, until proven otherwise (and it's very much within the realm of possibility, mind you), it must be assumed that Virginia Tech reloads. They are the only team in the ACC with which it's safe to make this assumption, because they've been the model of consistency in the league since they joined.

To that point, the Hokies have won ten or more games per season every year they have been in the ACC. That's eight consecutive seasons and counting. I'm not sure any team in the NCAA can match that consistency.

[lonewolf371]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

Again, until proven otherwise (and it's very much within the realm of possibility, mind you), it must be assumed that Virginia Tech reloads. They are the only team in the ACC with which it's safe to make this assumption, because they've been the model of consistency in the league since they joined.

To that point, the Hokies have won ten or more games per season every year they have been in the ACC. That's eight consecutive seasons and counting. I'm not sure any team in the NCAA can match that consistency.

I don't think it's all that safe to make that assumption. They had a mediocre offense last year, and the players from that offense beat out the players from next year's offense.

[Hooe]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

I don't think it's all that safe to make that assumption. They had a mediocre offense last year, and the players from that offense beat out the players from next year's offense.

Mediocre? Virginia Tech was 24th in the nation in total offense last year. While they were 57th in the nation in points per game, they were also 7th in the nation in points allowed per game. That same defense returns nine starters. The style of football Virginia Tech plays isn't conducive to track meet scores and numbers like one would see out of Oklahoma or some other Big XII school, but it's obvious that big numbers are not a reflection of their ability to run their own steamrolling defense-demoralizing system effectively.

The Hokies will not have any problems replacing running back David Wilson with either a platoon of competent runners or a new breakout, like Wilson was last season; they've done that song and dance before, and I've watched them do it just about every year over the past decade. I also contend that replacing wide receivers is a lot easier when one has stability at quarterback, which Logan Thomas will provide. Senior Dyrell Roberts is also plenty capable, and I think Hokie fans have been waiting for Marcus Davis to break out as a major contributor for a bit now but he hasn't been able to given the logjam of receivers that was previously in front of him in Roberts, Danny Coale, and Jarrett Boykin.

Of the players Virginia Tech has to replace on their offense, three are offensive linemen. Rebuilding an offensive line in college football does take time over the course of a season. Two of the projected starters are upper classmen, one of whom started last year, which will help. That said, this is the most concerning area for the Hokies success. If they find an offensive line that gels quickly, they could very well make a run at going undefeated given their terrible non-conference schedule and the lack of any dominant team in the ACC. If the offensive line struggles, however, it could derail the entire season, but likely only to the tune of something like an 8-5 season. Given Frank Beamer's track record, I'm inclined to - begrudgingly, as a Virginia fan - give the Hokies the benefit of the doubt here.

...I'm talking way too much about the stupid Hokies. Giggas would be proud.

[p_rushing]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

Florida State is not killing the ACC. The ACC is being destroyed by John Swofford and his poor mistakes as the leader of the ACC.

He banked big time on Miami and Virginia Tech when the conference expanded, and only VT panned out. That plus the rise of the SEC in football has led to a lot more recruits going over to the SEC, in many places taking away from the ACC.

When most people who actually follow the ACC look at it, the issues at hand come from within the commissioner's office, not based on school alone.

Yep, but UNC has too much pull for anything to be done about it.

[Chrisksaint]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

Virginia Tech is the class of the ACC as of late until further notice, they also always have a respectable enough D to win games and now throw in Logan Thomas who is the real D.

Clemson has a decent offense, but their defense is not good at all as evidenced by most embarassing BCS performance i've seen in awhile. Surprised someone is even hyping them up after

Going into the season i'd say it's a battle between VT and FSU for the ACC with FSU's offense being the wildcard.

[bh446066]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

Reminds me of Anakin Skywalker...

[Da Hype Iz Real]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

So is there more money in the Big 12 for FSU because outside of Texas and OU wouldn't they be playing teams of the leftovers those two didn't want.

[lonewolf371]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

Mediocre? Virginia Tech was 24th in the nation in total offense last year. While they were 57th in the nation in points per game, they were also 7th in the nation in points allowed per game. That same defense returns nine starters. The style of football Virginia Tech plays isn't conducive to track meet scores and numbers like one would see out of Oklahoma or some other Big XII school, but it's obvious that big numbers are not a reflection of their ability to run their own steamrolling defense-demoralizing system effectively.

The Hokies will not have any problems replacing running back David Wilson with either a platoon of competent runners or a new breakout, like Wilson was last season; they've done that song and dance before, and I've watched them do it just about every year over the past decade. I also contend that replacing wide receivers is a lot easier when one has stability at quarterback, which Logan Thomas will provide. Senior Dyrell Roberts is also plenty capable, and I think Hokie fans have been waiting for Marcus Davis to break out as a major contributor for a bit now but he hasn't been able to given the logjam of receivers that was previously in front of him in Roberts, Danny Coale, and Jarrett Boykin.

Of the players Virginia Tech has to replace on their offense, three are offensive linemen. Rebuilding an offensive line in college football does take time over the course of a season. Two of the projected starters are upper classmen, one of whom started last year, which will help. That said, this is the most concerning area for the Hokies success. If they find an offensive line that gels quickly, they could very well make a run at going undefeated given their terrible non-conference schedule and the lack of any dominant team in the ACC. If the offensive line struggles, however, it could derail the entire season, but likely only to the tune of something like an 8-5 season. Given Frank Beamer's track record, I'm inclined to - begrudgingly, as a Virginia fan - give the Hokies the benefit of the doubt here.

...I'm talking way too much about the stupid Hokies. Giggas would be proud.

Virginia Tech was only 24th in the nation if you ignore the fact that they played more games than a number of other teams. They were 34th otherwise, which is a lot better than I thought. I was glancing at my preseason magazine at the time and saw the scoring offense ranking and thought it was the yardage. I see yardage as being more important than scoring.

I don't buy into all of that "oh they've been good for years they have to be good next year" stuff. Each one of those previous teams wrote its own story and had to overcome challenges of its own year. That doesn't mean that this year's team will be just as good. Losing nine starters on offense isn't something any team deals with easily. Florida State and Clemson, meanwhile, are returning a lot of talent.

[elijah53johnston]

Re: FSU was supposed to save the ACC instead it's killing it.

[QUOTE=lonewolf371;2043728439I see yardage as being more important than scoring.

[/QUOTE]

Can you explain why you feel yards are important than scoring? Scoring is how you win, not by gaining yards.