Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

[lonewolf371]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

According to your QBR like site ND ranks below Standford and Oklahoma, both of whom they beat? I've never seen this site before, I'm past disagreeing on it and trying to figure it out.

You can disagree all you want, but those rankings are a much better predictor of team performance than bowl records. It's much more statistically robust.

[Amoo316]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

You can disagree all you want, but those rankings are a much better predictor of team performance than bowl records. It's much more statistically robust.

Based on what? You're basically telling me that because Stanford and Oklahoma had better numbers statistically they should be ranked higher then a school that beat them and had no other losses then in the MNC game. Sorry dude but that's garbage.

College Football is played on the field. In some cases we have NO direct way to compare teams, in others we do. In this case, we have a pretty much cut and dry scenario.

Like I said in my last post, I'm trying to figure out how the hell this thing works, because right now it looks like it says Matt Ryan and Colin Capernick had better QBRs than Aaron Rogers so they are both better QBs. That's garbage and just as bad, if not worse, then the crappy poll/bcs system we have now.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

Based on what? You're basically telling me that because Stanford and Oklahoma had better numbers statistically they should be ranked higher then a school that beat them and had no other losses then in the MNC game. Sorry dude but that's garbage.

College Football is played on the field. In some cases we have NO direct way to compare teams, in others we do. In this case, we have a pretty much cut and dry scenario.

Like I said in my last post, I'm trying to figure out how the hell this thing works, because right now it looks like it says Matt Ryan and Colin Capernick had better QBRs than Aaron Rogers so they are both better QBs. That's garbage and just as bad, if not worse, then the crappy poll/bcs system we have now.

Calm down; you're on an internet forum.

You see, there are a number of scientific papers that show that scoring margin is more predictive of how successful teams are than blunt wins and losses. FEI basically looks at your ability to score and prevent scores on a drive-by-drive basis. Then it adjusts it for strength of opponent. Although Oklahoma and Stanford lost to Notre Dame, they were close games. When taking into account the rest of the schedule, Oklahoma and Stanford came out ahead. It's not always right, but it performs better because when you say "well so-and-so beat blah-blah-blah" you're in effect just using the transitive property without realizing it.

[Amoo316]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

Calm down; you're on an internet forum.

You see, there are a number of scientific papers that show that scoring margin is more predictive of how successful teams are than blunt wins and losses. FEI basically looks at your ability to score and prevent scores on a drive-by-drive basis. Then it adjusts it for strength of opponent. Although Oklahoma and Stanford lost to Notre Dame, they were close games. When taking into account the rest of the schedule, Oklahoma and Stanford came out ahead. It's not always right, but it performs better because when you say "well so-and-so beat blah-blah-blah" you're in effect just using the transitive property without realizing it.

Fear not man, I'm just a very animated person in general, I'm not all riled up by any means.

I think the issue I have with it, is it appears to be a poor man's BCS. The one saving grace (depending on who you ask I guess) is we get to keep some human element in the BCS. I really like that page, as I think i said before as I have never seen it before and love numbers, but I don't live on numbers alone.

I think to be honest we probably both need to put a little more weight in each other's initial argument. I'm not saying we shake our yankers and call it good, but I think we are possibly both right and wrong here. I can value and respect the raw numbers. I love them and love the research behind something like that. At the same time, I think you have to give a little more weight to non-conference bowl games. Specifically the conference seeds. A #2 vs a #4 is not a fair bowl matchup, but we often times get it. When I first mentioned bowl matchups, you said we can't just use them. The site I linked, while it was an SEC site, was attempting to give more insight on bowl matchups then just Cemson beat LSU, man they got lucky hue hue hue.

[TripleCrown9]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

As far as conference pride goes, I'd rather sit through an entire season of LSU going 0-12 than cheer for Alabama on any given Saturday.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

Fear not man, I'm just a very animated person in general, I'm not all riled up by any means.

I think the issue I have with it, is it appears to be a poor man's BCS. The one saving grace (depending on who you ask I guess) is we get to keep some human element in the BCS. I really like that page, as I think i said before as I have never seen it before and love numbers, but I don't live on numbers alone.

I think to be honest we probably both need to put a little more weight in each other's initial argument. I'm not saying we shake our yankers and call it good, but I think we are possibly both right and wrong here. I can value and respect the raw numbers. I love them and love the research behind something like that. At the same time, I think you have to give a little more weight to non-conference bowl games. Specifically the conference seeds. A #2 vs a #4 is not a fair bowl matchup, but we often times get it. When I first mentioned bowl matchups, you said we can't just use them. The site I linked, while it was an SEC site, was attempting to give more insight on bowl matchups then just Cemson beat LSU, man they got lucky hue hue hue.

Okay, well I just think if you're using stats you should use the best ones. If you want to avoid those kinds of stats, then you can mention the player talent evident in NFL Draft selections and such.

As far as conference pride goes, I'd rather sit through an entire season of LSU going 0-12 than cheer for Alabama on any given Saturday.

You are easily the most confusing sports fan I've ever seen.

[TripleCrown9]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

You are easily the most confusing sports fan I've ever seen.

Thanks, but I'm not sure why. I'd rather cheer for LSU every game and them not win, than chant S-E-C! S-E-C! when Alabama wins the National title. Why is that confusing?

[tHurley2010]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

The Big Ten has the same problem. Are we going to adjust the Big Ten's bowl record because they always play teams slotted above them? The SEC sets up and schedules these bowls. If you're going to look at bowl records; look at bowl records.

Or you could do the best thing and look at stuff like this:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/fei

Which still confirms the SEC is on top, but it's a far better metric to use than bowl records.

Those guys do a tremendous job

[lonewolf371]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

Thanks, but I'm not sure why. I'd rather cheer for LSU every game and them not win, than chant S-E-C! S-E-C! when Alabama wins the National title. Why is that confusing?

That's not confusing. The first confusing thing, which is specific to you, is how you like so many teams, yet are able to get emotional about each one along the way.

A more general thing that's confusing to me is how people hate rivals so much. I dislike IU, Ohio State, and Michigan State, but not all that much. I have friends that have gone to all those schools and I don't mind seeing them do well in bowl games.

[TripleCrown9]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

That's not confusing. The first confusing thing, which is specific to you, is how you like so many teams, yet are able to get emotional about each one along the way.

A more general thing that's confusing to me is how people hate rivals so much. I dislike IU, Ohio State, and Michigan State, but not all that much. I have friends that have gone to all those schools and I don't mind seeing them do well in bowl games.

The only two teams I truly care about how they do are LSU and Texas Tech. I just enjoy watching the other ones for various reasons.

And I wouldn't hate Alabama so much if Oklahoma State would have played in the 2011 BCS Championship.

[football200414]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

The only two teams I truly care about how they do are LSU and Texas Tech. I just enjoy watching the other ones for various reasons.

And I wouldn't hate Alabama so much if Oklahoma State would have played in the 2011 BCS Championship.

That makes a lot of sense...I hate Alabama because the BCS recognized that they were the best team in the nation that year & properly placed them in the national championship game over my 24th favorite team...C'MON MAN

[TripleCrown9]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

That makes a lot of sense...I hate Alabama because the BCS recognized that they were the best team in the nation that year & properly placed them in the national championship game over my 24th favorite team...C'MON MAN

I agree. Without a doubt the team that didn't even win it's own division was the best team in the country. They proved it by beating a team that earned their way into the game.

And Oklahoma State isn't one of my favorite teams. Hell, even I couldn't manage 24 favorite teams. I have like 4, maybe 5.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

That makes a lot of sense...I hate Alabama because the BCS recognized that they were the best team in the nation that year & properly placed them in the national championship game over my 24th favorite team...C'MON MAN

I agree. Without a doubt the team that didn't even win it's own division was the best team in the country. They proved it by beating a team that earned their way into the game.

And Oklahoma State isn't one of my favorite teams. Hell, even I couldn't manage 24 favorite teams. I have like 4, maybe 5.

It doesn't really make sense to me. Alabama didn't put themselves in the championship game; they just happened to be the ones to benefit. I would hate the BCS and not care about Alabama on those subjects.

[AUChase]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

If you guys want some real reasons to hate Alabama, I can probably help.

[TripleCrown9]

Re: Is the SEC really that dominant or overrated???

That makes a lot of sense...I hate Alabama because the BCS recognized that they were the best team in the nation that year & properly placed them in the national championship game over my 24th favorite team...C'MON MAN

It doesn't really make sense to me. Alabama didn't put themselves in the championship game; they just happened to be the ones to benefit. I would hate the BCS and not care about Alabama on those subjects.

Oh look! What's over there?!?

If you guys want some real reasons to hate Alabama, I can probably help.