Week 13 Discussion

[canes21]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

Come on. OSU missed some chip shots or the game never reaches OT in the first place and the spot is never anything that happens.

As someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight(though I'd rather see OSU lose) that spot was nothing crazy and it's the kind of play that will never be overturned either way. Watching it live I thought he got the first down. Watching the replay I think he got right at the 15 which is what they spotted I believe. OSU got away with some PI's, but that's nothing crazy. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary that made me think the refs had money on OSU.

It was 7 penalties to 2. That's not that crazy. I mean, last year's Miami-Duke game was a 23-5 difference, but no one seemed to have a problem with that, so I don't know why a 7-2 difference is all of a sudden a huge deal.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

Come on. OSU missed some chip shots or the game never reaches OT in the first place and the spot is never anything that happens.

As someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight(though I'd rather see OSU lose) that spot was nothing crazy and it's the kind of play that will never be overturned either way. Watching it live I thought he got the first down. Watching the replay I think he got right at the 15 which is what they spotted I believe. OSU got away with some PI's, but that's nothing crazy. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary that made me think the refs had money on OSU.

It was 7 penalties to 2. That's not that crazy. I mean, last year's Miami-Duke game was a 23-5 difference, but no one seemed to have a problem with that, so I don't know why a 7-2 difference is all of a sudden a huge deal.

The refs were not impartial. Clear conflicts of interest existed given their backgrounds no matter how good/poorly they officiated. 100% unacceptable.

It's not so much the numbers of penalties that is the issue. It's when the number of penalties being called in no way approximated what was actually happening on the field. If a really undisciplined team commits 23 penalties, that's fine as long as they're good calls. The goal shouldn't be to call an even number on both teams, but to actually call penalties when they occur. The fact that you could put a highlight reel together of botched officiating and swallowing whistles in a blatantly one-sided way is the issue. The fact that Michigan's DL totally overwhelmed and dominated OSU's OL to the tune of 8 sacks and the refs are telling us that nary a jersey was grabbed in the process? That's just not physically possible unless you want to claim OSU wasn't even trying to block. No rational fan who has any sense of what they were watching could possibly agree that OSU only earned 2 penalties for 6 yards. Laughable.

There were a number of clear, obvious calls not made (PI, personal foul, holding). We're not talking borderline calls here. At this point, I think even a majority of OSU fans are willing to admit this. We're talking blowing someone up after the whistle right in front of the ref. We're talking throwing WRs to the ground. It was a con, plain and simple.

We can go round and round about the mistakes both teams made, but that's part of the game. Mistakes will always be made by officials, too, but systematic officiating bias has no place in the game and cheapens the efforts of both schools. It makes the winner less joyful over the success (because they feel the need to justify the unjustifiable) and makes the loser less accepting of the outcome. I'd prefer getting our teeth kicked in by OSU like a couple of years ago instead of an outcome I can't respect. At least in those blowouts, you could respect the outcome that the better team had won and move on.

[BigDofBA]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

Did the refs cause Michigan to throw a pick 6 and fumble at the one yard line?

I'm just wondering because that was the real difference in the game.

Stats were pretty even and the penalty disparity wasn't that large (yardage) wise.

[pmurray20]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

are we still arguing over this?? lol michigan beat themselves the ref didn't throw two int's, fumble on the goal line and they didn't throw a headset for a 15 yarder. Michigan u lost and ur still at number 5 and not out of it. do u think if ohio st would have lost they would b 5? no way we would b behind penn st and colorado probably and u guys would be laughing at how over rated we are. i hope washington loses so u guys can say the refs cheated u out of beating alabama

[rkwittem]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

The refs were not impartial. Clear conflicts of interest existed given their backgrounds no matter how good/poorly they officiated. 100% unacceptable.

It's not so much the numbers of penalties that is the issue. It's when the number of penalties being called in no way approximated what was actually happening on the field. If a really undisciplined team commits 23 penalties, that's fine as long as they're good calls. The goal shouldn't be to call an even number on both teams, but to actually call penalties when they occur. The fact that you could put a highlight reel together of botched officiating and swallowing whistles in a blatantly one-sided way is the issue. The fact that Michigan's DL totally overwhelmed and dominated OSU's OL to the tune of 8 sacks and the refs are telling us that nary a jersey was grabbed in the process? That's just not physically possible unless you want to claim OSU wasn't even trying to block. No rational fan who has any sense of what they were watching could possibly agree that OSU only earned 2 penalties for 6 yards. Laughable.

There were a number of clear, obvious calls not made (PI, personal foul, holding). We're not talking borderline calls here. At this point, I think even a majority of OSU fans are willing to admit this. We're talking blowing someone up after the whistle right in front of the ref. We're talking throwing WRs to the ground. It was a con, plain and simple.

We can go round and round about the mistakes both teams made, but that's part of the game. Mistakes will always be made by officials, too, but systematic officiating bias has no place in the game and cheapens the efforts of both schools. It makes the winner less joyful over the success (because they feel the need to justify the unjustifiable) and makes the loser less accepting of the outcome. I'd prefer getting our teeth kicked in by OSU like a couple of years ago instead of an outcome I can't respect. At least in those blowouts, you could respect the outcome that the better team had won and move on.

What's your address? I got a present for you.


You're posting memes as though they evidence of some grand B1G conspiracy to screw Michigan. Stop. It's a bad look. You sound like one of those people who made death threats to Steve Bartman in 03.

Maybe just look in the mirror and accept that your team did not play a full game's worth of good enough football to win. Wilton Speight is a 50-minute QB. None of his errors were any ref's fault, unless his dad is one.

In 30 years, history will still show the same score. It doesn't need anyone's "respect" to be validated. No one will care how butthurt Jim Harbaugh was or how badly Michigan whips Florida in the Outback Bowl again. If Ohio State goes to the Playoff and wins it all, this game will be a footnote. If they go to the Playoff and lose, it's still a footnote. The immature reaction by Michigan from top to bottom is making this story live far longer than it ought to have.

[Sportsbuck]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

If you can't ensure the refs are impartial and the game is played fairly, the results don't really mean anything.



Does that look like an impartial referee to you? This is the same one who was banned from the 2006 Game for conflict of interest FWIW

And the referee who spotted the ball on 4th down is from Grand Rapids, MI and his Facebook cover photo is of a Michigan player running into the endzone.

Give it a rest already. This game wasn't won by some Buckeye officiating fix or conspiracy. Michigan failed to capitalize on a number of OSU mistakes while OSU took advantage of Michigan's. That, and then 150-16 yardage advantage for the Buckeyes in the last 17 minutes, swung the game.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

I think it says a lot that OSU fans are insecure enough about the outcome to continually feel the need to refute/respond back about it. If it's so cut and dried and OSU so clearly won the game fairly, why not just go on your way and enjoy the win? Michigan fans are just butthurt and rabble rabble rabble, blah blah blah, 14 of 16, blah blah blah, Urban Meyer >>> Harbaugh. Right? Why would you care? If you think you can convince me that the game was fairly officiated or that the officiating didn't swing the outcome, then lol.

Certainly what some Michigan fan is posting on a message board shouldn't bother you at all if you don't believe there's any basis to the claims. No?

Normally I have zero problems absorbing a loss for my teams. I don't normally have anything but grudging respect for rivals of my teams, but something happened in this game that was different. And that undermines the legitimacy of it for me.

Did the refs cause Michigan to throw a pick 6 and fumble at the one yard line?

I'm just wondering because that was the real difference in the game.

Stats were pretty even and the penalty disparity wasn't that large (yardage) wise.

So having officials with conflicts of interest is just fine and dandy? How about we put all OK ST fans in for your game this weekend? Cool? Maybe throw in an official that was previously fired by the Big XII for incompetence to add some flavor...

Yardage-wise doesn't really tell the full effect of the timing/sequencing and drive-stopping/extending effect of the penalties. The whole point is that even despite all of those mistakes you mentioned, Michigan was pretty clearly the better team. If the refs do their actual job (call PIs when Michigan WRs are being yanked to the turf, call personal fouls when a late hit happens right in front of the ref, call holding when Curtis Samuel was the beneficiary of about half-a-dozen of them to set up the 4th and 1 which led to the bad spot play) then the outcome is completely different. Nobody is saying the mistakes don't matter. If Michigan doesn't make those mistakes they overcome the poor officiating and probably win by multiple touchdowns, sure, but they did make the mistakes. They shouldn't have to face up to their mistakes and then some. They shouldn't have to compete against both OSU and the officiating crew.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

And the referee who spotted the ball on 4th down is from Grand Rapids, MI and his Facebook cover photo is of a Michigan player running into the endzone.

Give it a rest already. This game wasn't won by some Buckeye officiating fix or conspiracy. Michigan failed to capitalize on a number of OSU mistakes while OSU took advantage of Michigan's. That, and then 150-16 yardage advantage for the Buckeyes in the last 17 minutes, swung the game.

Funny that you bring up the MSU fan spotting the ball who has been critical of Jim Harbaugh in the past...hmmmm. Do some research on that guy/that photo and you'll see what I mean.

[canes21]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

The refs were not impartial. Clear conflicts of interest existed given their backgrounds no matter how good/poorly they officiated. 100% unacceptable.

It's not so much the numbers of penalties that is the issue. It's when the number of penalties being called in no way approximated what was actually happening on the field. If a really undisciplined team commits 23 penalties, that's fine as long as they're good calls. The goal shouldn't be to call an even number on both teams, but to actually call penalties when they occur. The fact that you could put a highlight reel together of botched officiating and swallowing whistles in a blatantly one-sided way is the issue. The fact that Michigan's DL totally overwhelmed and dominated OSU's OL to the tune of 8 sacks and the refs are telling us that nary a jersey was grabbed in the process? That's just not physically possible unless you want to claim OSU wasn't even trying to block. No rational fan who has any sense of what they were watching could possibly agree that OSU only earned 2 penalties for 6 yards. Laughable.

There were a number of clear, obvious calls not made (PI, personal foul, holding). We're not talking borderline calls here. At this point, I think even a majority of OSU fans are willing to admit this. We're talking blowing someone up after the whistle right in front of the ref. We're talking throwing WRs to the ground. It was a con, plain and simple.

We can go round and round about the mistakes both teams made, but that's part of the game. Mistakes will always be made by officials, too, but systematic officiating bias has no place in the game and cheapens the efforts of both schools. It makes the winner less joyful over the success (because they feel the need to justify the unjustifiable) and makes the loser less accepting of the outcome. I'd prefer getting our teeth kicked in by OSU like a couple of years ago instead of an outcome I can't respect. At least in those blowouts, you could respect the outcome that the better team had won and move on.

I mean, Miami wasn't the most disciplined team last year, but that game was as crooked as I've seen in years with the officiating. It was just overshadowed by the ending.

Like I said, though, as someone who really didn't care for either team in this game(and actually would have preferred a Michigan win) I never saw anything that made me think the refs were all in on OSU. They missed some calls for both teams, but overall I feel pretty confident in thinking Michigan lost the game themselves and not because of the zebras.

Maybe I am missing some things. I watched the game pretty much start to finish.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

I mean, Miami wasn't the most disciplined team last year, but that game was as crooked as I've seen in years with the officiating. It was just overshadowed by the ending.

Like I said, though, as someone who really didn't care for either team in this game(and actually would have preferred a Michigan win) I never saw anything that made me think the refs were all in on OSU. They missed some calls for both teams, but overall I feel pretty confident in thinking Michigan lost the game themselves and not because of the zebras.

Maybe I am missing some things. I watched the game pretty much start to finish.

Yeah, you missed some things. I can't comment on the other game you're referring to as it's not fresh in my memory.

To be clear, I'm not saying this was a massive, coordinated conspiracy between OSU/NCAA/refs. Nothing at all that tin foil as it's being made out to be by these Buckeye OS'ers. To be clear, I don't think OSU has any blame at all in this. OSU did nothing wrong. In fact, I sort of feel bad for them that the thick smoke of controversy has cheapened their win a little bit in public opinion.

I am blaming the NCAA for their crappy assignment of officials policy that doesn't consider (apparently!) potential conflicts of interest. I mean could you imagine a judge being allowed to rule on a case where the defendant is his nephew? That type of potential to get the streams crossed, even the existence of a possible conflict, is not ok. Should not be tolerated in possibly the marquee game of the year.

What I am saying is that, in view of the calls that were flat missed (several, I assure you...re-watch and listen even to the commentators if you don't believe me) it really stinks that a split second judgment any of the officials made could've been influenced by their pre-existing biases. Either it was gross incompetence (a previously fired official was leading the crew!) or some of the non-calls were due to bias.

This shouldn't even be a thing...some of the guys on that crew shouldn't have been allowed in the Shoe that day period without buying a ticket. So, yes, I am just as bitterly disappointed as Harbaugh.

[Sportsbuck]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

lol I see we've reached the point where even debating or challenging what you say is perceived as insecurity about a win.

You do you. If you can't accept that what happened last Saturday is a result of anything but biased officiating, then you keep clinging to that.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

Did the fumble at the GL really matter? Didn't OSU end up giving it back on the fake punt and Michigan punched it in a few plays later? IOW, wasn't it the difference of about 3 minutes in a Michigan TD?

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

lol I see we've reached the point where even debating or challenging what you say is perceived as insecurity about a win.

You do you. If you can't accept that what happened last Saturday is a result of anything but biased officiating, then you keep clinging to that.

Just as any issues (officiating, conflicts of interest, level playing field) I raise with legitimate intent are filed away into the "butthurt" or "tin foil" or "delusional" categories by some of you guys (not you specifically as you're one of the more rational/less inflammatory OSU fans around, imo).

But, yes we are at the point of agree to disagree. Have been for some time. I don't see any potential for that to change based on the information we all have and the calluses building on both sides of the rivalry that reinforce our "side" of the events.

Good luck until our teams meet again. Might be sooner than we think depending on any CHAOS this weekend.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

Did the fumble at the GL really matter? Didn't OSU end up giving it back on the fake punt and Michigan punched it in a few plays later? IOW, wasn't it the difference of about 3 minutes in a Michigan TD?

I think people who casually watched the game or only heard about it from someone else see a FUMBLE AT THE GOAL LINE!!!! and that sounds really, really bad. But, you're right. The net effect was very small thanks to Urbz running Cam Johnston around end on 4th down. The INTs were much more self-wounding, obviously the pick-six being the worst of them.

[BigDofBA]

Re: Week 13 Discussion

Michigan played well; however, Ohio State stepped up and made the big plays when all the chips were on the line and Michigan didn't. That's why Ohio State has dominated the series and played for and won championships the last 15 years.

Isn't Ohio State like 13-2 against Michigan the last 15 years? That's domination. If my team was getting owned like that I might start making excuses too.

Next year don't lose to Iowa. Maybe you'll still get in if you lose to Ohio State.

Again, as a neutral observer I didn't think the refs cost Michigan the game. Michigan fans/players need to look in the mirror and realize a pick 6 and fumble at the one yard line cost them the game. Some of these excuses are embarrassing. Apparently a few Michigan fans think that making critical mistakes is part of the game but officiating isn't. Lol. What kind of logic is that?

Michigan is done. They won't get in the playoff this year. Harbaugh is a great coach though. The future is bright.