Week 6 Discussion

[canes21]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

The thing people do with football is choose one or two plays from the entire game and act like because a certain call was or was not made, it means the officiating was helping one team to win. They constantly ignore all the other calls/no calls that occurred earlier in the game and even benefited the team that lost.

Did Miami potentially get away with an illegal man down field on the RPO they ran to score the game's final TD? It's very close based off the still I've seen. Did they get away with a potential targeting? Maybe, but I know the NCAA has made it a point to not call targeting as much when the ball carrier goes low and that's the primary reason there was helmet to helmet contact, and that's exactly what happened on Cal's 2nd to final drive.

That said, did Cal score a 60 yard TD on a play that wasn't even reviewed when it looked like Ott stepped out of bounds 9 yards into the play? Did Cal convert a 3rd and 7 where the WR caught the ball down field and the other WR was already blocking the safety 15 yards downfield way before the ball was even touched and that kept their drive alive and allowed them to score a TD when it should have been OPI and potentially ended their drive? They sure did.

Calls and no calls go both ways throughout every single game. Cal had some favorable calls go their way, they committed some obvious penalties that didn't get called. Miami had some calls go their way and had some no calls go their way. Cal had a 25 point lead with under 20 minutes to go in the game. Cal had a 20 point lead in the 4th quarter. Cal had Miami in a 3rd and goal from the 18 after Miami got called for a phantom OPI and they still allowed Miami to score on the play. Cal had Miami pinned on their own 8 yard line at the end of the game and allowed a 77-yard pass. Cal had Miami in a 3rd and 20 in the final minute of the game and allowed a conversion. Cal allowed Cam Ward to get 277 yards and score 3 TDs in the 4th quarter alone.

Blaming the refs for the result of this game after everything that transpired, and when Cal 100% clearly had some calls/no calls go their way early on in the game and were a big reason they went up 35-10 is just weak. If this were another program, it wouldn't even be a big deal, but because it's Miami, it's made people irrationally angry.

Remember last year when Miami got screwed vs GT because they didn't knee the ball, "fumbled" it away, the replay clearly showed the Miami runner down, and we saw GT convert the hail mary to win it? Remember how the narrative was yea, he was down, but tough luck, that's what you get for letting the game come down to a call from the officials? Funny how now that Miami is on the other side of it, with a significantly less clear situation every and their mother is now up in arms and demanding the ACC be better.

[KSUowls]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

I have always been consistent with the opinion that the timeliness of a call matters. If a bad call goes against you in the 1st quarter then you still have 3+ quarters of football to overcome it. If that call happens on the last play of the game then you have been robbed of any opportunity to overcome it. So, in the case of this game there are a couple of things true. Cal choked the game away, and the refs also played a huge part in the outcome due to the timeliness of those calls.

[canes21]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

I have always been consistent with the opinion that the timeliness of a call matters. If a bad call goes against you in the 1st quarter then you still have 3+ quarters of football to overcome it. If that call happens on the last play of the game then you have been robbed of any opportunity to overcome it. So, in the case of this game there are a couple of things true. Cal choked the game away, and the refs also played a huge part in the outcome due to the timeliness of those calls.

I just can't agree with this. I never have been able to see it the way you do.

I am genuinely trying to have a discussion on this and am not trying to attack you, but how in general can you hold it against one team for getting out of a hole with potential officiating error aiding them when said hole was only created because the other team had officiating error aiding them earlier in the game?

The officiating is completely out of the teams' hands, so if the officials make an error earlier in the game for Team A and do a similar thing later in the game for Team B, only Team B really benefited from the officiating due to the timing of the call despite that aspect of the game being completely out of their hands?

I really can't see the logic there. If it's the first play of the game or the last play of the game, if an officiating mistake helps a team out in a a major way, e.g. scoring a TD, it's an equal sized deal to me and the timing should be irrelevant.

You want to argue that if you get robbed earlier in the game you at least have time to overcome said error. Can't you just as easily argue that if the robbing happens late in the game you had all the time before the game to be in a place to overcome it?

By your logic that Miami had an entire 2nd half to try and overcome the missed calls that directly led to Cal scores, did Cal not have 58 minutes prior to the final 2 minutes to try and put themselves in a position that would allow them to overcome any missed calls that would directly benefit Miami?

[KSUowls]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

I just can't agree with this. I never have been able to see it the way you do.

I am genuinely trying to have a discussion on this and am not trying to attack you, but how in general can you hold it against one team for getting out of a hole with potential officiating error aiding them when said hole was only created because the other team had officiating error aiding them earlier in the game?

The officiating is completely out of the teams' hands, so if the officials make an error earlier in the game for Team A and do a similar thing later in the game for Team B, only Team B really benefited from the officiating due to the timing of the call despite that aspect of the game being completely out of their hands?

I really can't see the logic there. If it's the first play of the game or the last play of the game, if an officiating mistake helps a team out in a a major way, e.g. scoring a TD, it's an equal sized deal to me and the timing should be irrelevant.

You want to argue that if you get robbed earlier in the game you at least have time to overcome said error. Can't you just as easily argue that if the robbing happens late in the game you had all the time before the game to be in a place to overcome it?

By your logic that Miami had an entire 2nd half to try and overcome the missed calls that directly led to Cal scores, did Cal not have 58 minutes prior to the final 2 minutes to try and put themselves in a position that would allow them to overcome any missed calls that would directly benefit Miami?

Full disclosure I only caught like a quarter of the game. So, I'm not sure what officiating help that you're referring to earlier in the game unless it's the pass interference that you posted, which was an arguable pick play (certainly far more benign than some of the others). Though the out of bands no call on Cal was a huge miss so there is that.

My statement was more on the general commentary of a bad call in the final minute of a game is far more impactful than calls that happened prior. It doesn't negate the earlier calls, it just means that the later one was worth more.

If Cal benefited from a touchdown early in the game then Miami has time to make up for it. That obviously sucks for Miami and people have right to be upset about it, but in a 1:1 comparison I'd rather get screwed early in the game than late because at least you have time to overcome it. The closer the clock gets to all 0's the fewer pathways there are for a team to compensate for something going against them. It's kind of the same thinking as to why teams often defer to the 2nd half or want to go on defense first in overtime. Technically 1st and 10 on your own 30 in the opening drive of the game is no different than being 1st and 10 on the opening drive of the 2nd half. But we all know it's better to have that extra opportunity in the late stages of the game.

[canes21]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

Full disclosure I only caught like a quarter of the game. So, I'm not sure what officiating help that you're referring to earlier in the game unless it's the pass interference that you posted, which was an arguable pick play (certainly far more benign than some of the others). Though the out of bands no call on Cal was a huge miss so there is that.

My statement was more on the general commentary of a bad call in the final minute of a game is far more impactful than calls that happened prior. It doesn't negate the earlier calls, it just means that the later one was worth more.

If Cal benefited from a touchdown early in the game then Miami has time to make up for it. That obviously sucks for Miami and people have right to be upset about it, but in a 1:1 comparison I'd rather get screwed early in the game than late because at least you have time to overcome it. The closer the clock gets to all 0's the fewer pathways there are for a team to compensate for something going against them. It's kind of the same thinking as to why teams often defer to the 2nd half or want to go on defense first in overtime. Technically 1st and 10 on your own 30 in the opening drive of the game is no different than being 1st and 10 on the opening drive of the 2nd half. But we all know it's better to have that extra opportunity in the late stages of the game.

I'm talking more in general and not specifically with this Miami-Cal game. I personally disagree with your opinion, that's all.

To me, timing just doesn't matter as much in the equation. If you get robbed in the 1st quarter, you have 45 minutes the rest of the game to overcome it. If you get robbed in the 4th quarter, you still had 45 minutes the rest of the game to overcome it.

I don't think calling it a double standard is the best way I can phrase is, but it feels like placing differing levels of impact on 2 missed calls, even if they were identical, simply due to when they occurred is doing something in line with having double standards.

Like I was alluding to in my post, in a purely general example, if Team A jumps out to a 21-0 lead and 14 of their points came off plays that the officials missed them committing penalties, then Team B comes back and scores 21 in the 4th to win 24-21, and 14 of their points in the 4th came off plays officials missed committing penalties, did Team B really benefit from the officiating anymore than Team A?

To me, no. By your logic, I would assume your answer is yes. But, to me, the flaw I see with weighing the timing of the call is that you're completely dismissing the fact that Team B would not have been in a 21-0 hole at all if the officiating hadn't "favored" Team A earlier in the game.

You're basically telling Team B to get over the fact the refs helped put them in a 21-0 hole while also knocking them for getting the same exact type of "help" later in the game. It's hypocritical logic to a degree, imo. I'm not calling you a hypocrite, btw, just saying the logic of telling Team B to get over the missed calls while simultaneously knocking them for similar missed calls in their favor simply because you're weighing timing heavily in the instance is a bit hypocritical.

[LowerWolf]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

The thing people do with football is choose one or two plays from the entire game and act like because a certain call was or was not made, it means the officiating was helping one team to win. They constantly ignore all the other calls/no calls that occurred earlier in the game and even benefited the team that lost.

You mean kinda like this one?



(Somebody had to post it)

[canes21]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

I figured that'd get posted at some point. But that's a good example, and it highlights another thing I've said with Miami being on the wrong end of a play like this and nobody bats an eye, but when Miami benefits from a controversial decision, the sky is falling and the ACC is corrupt. Not saying that's what is happening here, but going to other communities for entertainment purposes, the overwhelming majority of CFB fans, like 90% of them, are all convinced that Miami is in cahoots with the ACC to get these calls which is just laughable and that type of thinking is why I go to places like reddit and X to read and entertain myself when bored.

The majority opinion seems to be that Miami fans that still talk about that play need to get over it because the officials missed plenty of calls earlier in the game that hurt Ohio State which I agree with. Yes, that play stings as a Miami fan, but I am not oblivious to the fact that Miami also had plenty of other calls/no calls go their way earlier in the game, so that's why I can't sit here and act like some of my fellow fans that act like Miami got robbed in that game.

[KSUowls]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

I'm talking more in general and not specifically with this Miami-Cal game. I personally disagree with your opinion, that's all.

To me, timing just doesn't matter as much in the equation. If you get robbed in the 1st quarter, you have 45 minutes the rest of the game to overcome it. If you get robbed in the 4th quarter, you still had 45 minutes the rest of the game to overcome it.

I don't think calling it a double standard is the best way I can phrase is, but it feels like placing differing levels of impact on 2 missed calls, even if they were identical, simply due to when they occurred is doing something in line with having double standards.

Like I was alluding to in my post, in a purely general example, if Team A jumps out to a 21-0 lead and 14 of their points came off plays that the officials missed them committing penalties, then Team B comes back and scores 21 in the 4th to win 24-21, and 14 of their points in the 4th came off plays officials missed committing penalties, did Team B really benefit from the officiating anymore than Team A?

To me, no. By your logic, I would assume your answer is yes. But, to me, the flaw I see with weighing the timing of the call is that you're completely dismissing the fact that Team B would not have been in a 21-0 hole at all if the officiating hadn't "favored" Team A earlier in the game.

You're basically telling Team B to get over the fact the refs helped put them in a 21-0 hole while also knocking them for getting the same exact type of "help" later in the game. It's hypocritical logic to a degree, imo. I'm not calling you a hypocrite, btw, just saying the logic of telling Team B to get over the missed calls while simultaneously knocking them for similar missed calls in their favor simply because you're weighing timing heavily in the instance is a bit hypocritical.

Just to address the bolded part first. I have never and will never knock any team for complaining about calls going against them regardless of what the clock says. Bad calls impact the game, point blank period. So if that came across earlier I apologize. I wasn't trying to say that at all.

Aside from that yeah we just see it differently. I'm always a believer in context matters. Identical plays/outcomes can have different meanings depending on the circumstances surrounding them.

[canes21]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

Just to address the bolded part first. I have never and will never knock any team for complaining about calls going against them regardless of what the clock says. Bad calls impact the game, point blank period. So if that came across earlier I apologize. I wasn't trying to say that at all.

Aside from that yeah we just see it differently. I'm always a believer in context matters. Identical plays/outcomes can have different meanings depending on the circumstances surrounding them.

I can respect that. I can see some of the idea behind the way you view it, I just don't personally agree with it, but it's not a very black and white situation and we're both entitled to our own opinions on it and I don't think you can really say either one of us is more right or wrong than the other. Just differing views.

[LowerWolf]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

I'm not really on social media, so I'm not privy to what's being said about Miami.

FWIW, the Virginia Tech game, Jeebs and I were posting in real time and my first reaction was "that's not a catch."

I guess you could argue there wasn't indisputable evidence to overturn the call on the field, which was a catch. But I have no idea how the initial ruling was a catch with the way the ball was bouncing around and the fact a Miami player came out of the pile with the ball. Maybe the process wasn't correct, but I think they got the call right in the end.

I think Miami got away with targeting near the end against Cal, and that certainly helped Cal blow the game. But again, my reaction was "Cal with an epic meltdown." Miami caught a break, but that happens. Didn't watch the whole game, but I wouldn't doubt Cal caught some breaks too. It's football and officiating, in general, is poor.

I fuss about officiating too, but generally try to not blame them as the reason my team lost - Eric Gregg in the 97 NLCS being the exception.

[canes21]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

I'm not really on social media, so I'm not privy to what's being said about Miami.

FWIW, the Virginia Tech game, Jeebs and I were posting in real time and my first reaction was "that's not a catch."

I guess you could argue there wasn't indisputable evidence to overturn the call on the field, which was a catch. But I have no idea how the initial ruling was a catch with the way the ball was bouncing around and the fact a Miami player came out of the pile with the ball. Maybe the process wasn't correct, but I think they got the call right in the end.

I think Miami got away with targeting near the end against Cal, and that certainly helped Cal blow the game. But again, my reaction was "Cal with an epic meltdown." Miami caught a break, but that happens. Didn't watch the whole game, but I wouldn't doubt Cal caught some breaks too. It's football and officiating, in general, is poor.

I fuss about officiating too, but generally try to not blame them as the reason my team lost - Eric Gregg in the 97 NLCS being the exception.

The CFB subreddit is a cesspool and is insufferable right now if you're a Miami fan. The general consensus is that Miami should be 4-2 right now and the ACC refs are the only reason they are 6-0.

I only go over there for entertainment reasons because it's hard to find an actual rational non-group think thought over there, but it blows my mind just how much irrational anger some people still have for Miami. The program has been irrelevant for nearly 25 years now and I'd be willing to bet the majority of members over there are college kids that are younger than 25, so it blows my mind they have as strong as feelings towards Miami as they do.

But, I am glad they do at times because there's still a tiny part of me that likes to gaslight people these days. I don't do it here anymore(this is not an admission of guilt, mods), but I do do it over there, and it's very easy to do as well, so on days like today when work is slow, I can get some easy and free entertainment over there when needed.

[Speedy]

Re: Week 6 Discussion

Reddit is a cesspool in general, to be fair.