9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

[Junior Moe]

Re: 9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

EA can't be responsible for what all people do with their purchased product. And it's easy? Yeah have you ever tried editing rosters? LOL...it took me an entire day just to do Ohio State. It takes roster editors usually a full week of nonstop editing to produce those rosters! I don't think any court would find it's "easy" or even likely the average consumer is going to go through that process.

And even if EA thinks they could be held responsible, as I said, there is an easy fix, just don't include an online roster share. We can go back to how i2 and just exchange save files which is far more trouble than the average EA consumer is going to go to.

Nah, man. I'm not saying it's easy. You guys are better men than me as I tried to edit my Bulldogs back in like 2004; I was burned out after only 1/3 of the team. LOL. You guys put in work.

But I was speaking to how easy it is to download a roster file. It literally takes less than a minute. I saw a piece on HBO with Ed Obannon and Brian Gumble and he walked through the process to download the real players. I think that would dissuade EA or 2K from even including the option. I don't know how that would hold up in a court of law but I would expect EA to be ultra cautious here seeing as they have already paid damages. Heck, they don't even use the school colors anymore in Madden for the draft class stories. It's all black now. Like I said, I could maybe see editing, but no sharing on any level. I remember the old days of buying a memory card from DT Linder (I think) and having it shipped to me back in the day.

[jwilphl]

The notion of pure amateurism at the D-I football level is dead. The NCAA needs to accept this and move on. I do not believe the school should be playing the players, but the NCAA needs to lift some of the archaic rules on what is and isn't allowed for players so they can more or less control their own destinies. If a kid wants to go sell his autograph and people want to buy it, let him!

I understand the concern with actually paying players, but this gets around that because neither the school nor the NCAA is involved in the transaction. If a kid can market themselves, then that's on (1) the product and (2) the market, two aspects outside of the control of the NCAA and the representative school. Small stipends for living expenses? Yeah, those are okay. Do we really want schools paying the kids directly? Probably not - there's concern that you taint the actual competition aspect of the game when you start paying people to play it.

This is part of the reason I think college football is a better product than what the NFL provides. So why did I say true amateurism is dead? Because recruits and athletes have been receiving illicit contributions, from any number of sources, for decades now. Stuff that's all off the grid and kept underground because they violate NCAA rules of eligibility. As I said, get rid of those archaic rules and allow for a more transparent system.

Besides, if you allow schools to start paying players, how do you decide who gets what money? Do they all get the same? Do we really think all players sell a program to the same extent? No; you'll have residual lawsuits that say, "I'm the star of the team; I should earn more because more people buy my jersey, watch because of me, etc." Again, this solution takes the burden off the system.

And scholarships do have real value - anyone who says otherwise is lying. It still takes some sort of effort while in school to make anything of yourself once you graduate, however. Majoring in "Basket Weaving" is likely not the best bet.

In summation, my solution: let the athletes be "businessmen/women." If they can create a market for themselves and profit from it, good for them, and now you don't have to worry about actually putting them on the books.

[ODogg]

Re: 9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

Nah, man. I'm not saying it's easy. You guys are better men than me as I tried to edit my Bulldogs back in like 2004; I was burned out after only 1/3 of the team. LOL. You guys put in work.

But I was speaking to how easy it is to download a roster file. It literally takes less than a minute. I saw a piece on HBO with Ed Obannon and Brian Gumble and he walked through the process to download the real players. I think that would dissuade EA or 2K from even including the option. I don't know how that would hold up in a court of law but I would expect EA to be ultra cautious here seeing as they have already paid damages. Heck, they don't even use the school colors anymore in Madden for the draft class stories. It's all black now. Like I said, I could maybe see editing, but no sharing on any level. I remember the old days of buying a memory card from DT Linder (I think) and having it shipped to me back in the day.

Ok, yeah I see your point. And I agree that EA probably shouldn't include a roster share for that very point. But they could still include editing tools. And still allow us to save. And thus, we could go back to the old school method which didn't get anyone in trouble.

But I think I'd like to make a real point here again - the vast majority of the public never even knew you could name the players. I was always shocked by that. I spoke with so many people who were oblivious to that.

Now the reason I'm making that point isn't to defend the way it used to be and say EA shouldn't have gotten in trouble. Rather I'm trying to make this point because I do believe the title would sell well without players resembling the real players.

All they need to do is plug in completely random rosters, include an editor and the game will sell extremely well, 95% of the public will play with whoever is in the game whether it's like the real guy or not and not give a crap.

The 5% of us, or hell maybe even the 1% of us like here at OS if given the tools to edit rosters, even not sharing them online but in some fashion being able to save the file, would be able to figure out what we need to make it real.

And for people like DTLinder who try to do it and profit, hell let the NCAA go after them people and sue the crap out of them. They are part of the reason this all happened to begin with because of them advertising on Ebay and other sites selling the real players.

[GlennN]

Not true, there's legal precedent as Microsoft was sued in the earlier days of MS Word for plagiarism and courts upheld that MS was just supplying the tools and had no control over how they were used. The courts directed the lawsuit to the person who stole anothers work, as they would do here if someone was selling rosters.

Even if this is true, just make it so there's the ability to edit rosters but no way to online share and we can all just go back to the gameshark days. I'm cool with that.

I am not familiar with the details of that suit, though I doubt it would be a similar enough issue to prevent suit against EA if roster sharing was permitted in a new NCAA game. While it could impact whether EA lost or not, I doubt it would prevent the need to defend a suit. That said, I agree with you that simply removing roster sharing (while leaving in the ability to edit and create) would seem to be enough. And that would certainly work for me!

[Hova57]

Re: 9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

The whole notion of "amaueturism" that the NCAA tries to project is nonsense. Are these kids student-athletes? Yes. But this idea that a full ride is adquate compensation and other rules resctrictions under the guise that it is unfair to the student population as a whole is garbage. The NCAA makes a near billion dollar profit of the labor of "amateurs". ESPN doesn't have a 8 billion dollar tv deal for the student body, they have it for "amateurs". These universities make millions of dollar on "amateurs". Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Kevin Ollie make 5+ mill to coach "amateurs". The money they make their schools well covers their free rides.

These kids should have a right to their individual brand on things outside of university revenue. They should be able to sell rings and sign autographs. Those things are valuable because of the work THEY did. They should get a cut of their jersey sales and they should be compentsated for things like video games.

They need to resolve this, because no one is winning, both in video games and real life.

I mean college hoops 2k17?! Nuts

Thats my issue the NCAA uses sponsors and allow schools to have tv channels to gain profit. If NCAA can allow sneaker companies to provide teams with shoes,equipment and clothing which technically is gifts. Why cant they allow schools to receive some benefits from having video games made

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[ODogg]

Re: 9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

Thats my issue the NCAA uses sponsors and allow schools to have tv channels to gain profit. If NCAA can allow sneaker companies to provide teams with shoes,equipment and clothing which technically is gifts. Why cant they allow schools to receive some benefits from having video games made

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Because the NCAA is stupid, arbitrary and insane?

[Cowboy008]

It would be great to have NCAA football on next gen consoles.

[Junior Moe]

Re: 9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

Ok, yeah I see your point. And I agree that EA probably shouldn't include a roster share for that very point. But they could still include editing tools. And still allow us to save. And thus, we could go back to the old school method which didn't get anyone in trouble.

But I think I'd like to make a real point here again - the vast majority of the public never even knew you could name the players. I was always shocked by that. I spoke with so many people who were oblivious to that.

Now the reason I'm making that point isn't to defend the way it used to be and say EA shouldn't have gotten in trouble. Rather I'm trying to make this point because I do believe the title would sell well without players resembling the real players.

All they need to do is plug in completely random rosters, include an editor and the game will sell extremely well, 95% of the public will play with whoever is in the game whether it's like the real guy or not and not give a crap.

The 5% of us, or hell maybe even the 1% of us like here at OS if given the tools to edit rosters, even not sharing them online but in some fashion being able to save the file, would be able to figure out what we need to make it real.

And for people like DTLinder who try to do it and profit, hell let the NCAA go after them people and sue the crap out of them. They are part of the reason this all happened to begin with because of them advertising on Ebay and other sites selling the real players.

College, more than anything, is driven by the name on the front of the jersey, not back. Players come and go but school loyalty is forever. I do believe that a title with generic rosters would do well for that very reason. I just want to play with my Bulldogs. I'm gonna built them how I want in dynasty mode, anyway. We are a minority, though. I remember one of the EA devs saying only 3 or 4% of NCAA Football users used the draft import feature. I was floored because I would have sworn that half, easily used it.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

College, more than anything, is driven by the name on the front of the jersey, not back. Players come and go but school loyalty is forever. I do believe that a title with generic rosters would do well for that very reason. I just want to play with my Bulldogs. I'm gonna built them how I want in dynasty mode, anyway. We are a minority, though. I remember one of the EA devs saying only 3 or 4% of NCAA Football users used the draft import feature. I was floored because I would have sworn that half, easily used it.

Also to go along with this if they had to go all random players. I would think that there is a good chance you won't be able to edit them and IF a roster share is a problem then I am over confident that editing wouldn't be in the game either. For the same reasons as above. Not many people edit rosters themselves. So if there is no roster share why would the devs do something that takes up a lot of time to complete for something that the masses aren't even going to use.

[canes21]

Re: 9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

Roster editing is not a problem. It violates nothing. Roster sharing for a profit could cause problems, and a roster share brings in a lot of confusion, but at this point based on history, is not violating any laws. But if it came down to it, like Odogg said, just take out the online share feature and users can share them via USB like the old days with gamesharks and what not. That would be safe and have nothing unlawful associated with it.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

Roster editing is not a problem. It violates nothing. Roster sharing for a profit could cause problems, and a roster share brings in a lot of confusion, but at this point based on history, is not violating any laws. But if it came down to it, like Odogg said, just take out the online share feature and users can share them via USB like the old days with gamesharks and what not. That would be safe and have nothing unlawful associated with it.

One tiny problem with the whole USB thing. No one has been able to crack the PS4 and X1 yet. So you could share them but no one could use them unless they were using your account.

[canes21]

Re: 9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

Unless EA didn't tie the roster to a profile which is very wishful thinking.

[lbrown531]

All I have to say is Thank You Sam keller and the other so called players who think they resemble video game characters. I hope everything was worth ruining people's lives.

[ODogg]

Re: 9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

All I have to say is Thank You Sam keller and the other so called players who think they resemble video game characters. I hope everything was worth ruining people's lives.

I agree, hope they are spit on wherever they go...I really hate those guys with a passion.

[goillini03]

Re: 9th Circuit Upholds NCAA Can't Restrict Athletes

Sam Keller, lol.

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