50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

[Playmakers]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

That's also varsity... So let's try to compare apples to apples

I understand it's varsity but threshold from what I've experienced or witnessed has never played any role in rb moves dating back to ncaa 11.

Your more likely to see jukes, spins and change of direction moves tied into the tackle slider as opposed to threshold.

Or maybe i'm just confused with what you mean by rb moves...

[JoshC1977]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

Just catching up on the posts from today - so I don't infringe too much on my gaming time, I will just address a couple of points:

• Special Moves by RBs (speed burst, spins, leaps, etc.) are driven by the RBA slider. If it is below 50, they use them. If above 50, they don't. Not positive about 50, but I don't think they do there either.
• Threshold affects acceleration. A setting of 0 turns the slider off completely, which I feel the CPU needs to survive). Aside from that, the lower the value, the greater the disparity in acceleration between fast/slow players. Why does 95 thresh feel interesting? Because, acceleration is nearly nullified altogether (so a 90 SPD/90 ACC runningback will feel exactly the same as a 90 SPD/75 ACC back - players get to max speed instantaneously). At 1 thresh, there is a greater disparity between low ACC ratings and high ACC ratings (so a 90 ACC player may feel more like a 95 ACC back while a 70 ACC player feels more like a 65 ACC - note, I am making-up the numbers for illustrative purposes only).

The question, in my mind, is whether or not a realistic threshold value, like 50, is viable....it may very well be that other functions outside of our control (like tackle radius) may preclude our ability to use this adequately. I have a sneaky hunch though that the KRI slider (which affects defensive reaction time the higher it does) may be critical here - defenders are (relatively) able to get up to speed more quickly than at 1 threshold - as such, we need to reduce their reaction time.


JP - I got your settings from earlier (via PM) and will give them a try - but I want to try out a couple of things....

[jp18]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

But we know that threshold affects DB positioning (mirroring)

All I know is that 95 plays much much much different (positive aspects) than 1 with the SAME exact sliders. Literally only change was threshold. And it plays differently at 50 as well (poorly)

Had to give this 95 threshold a try, I didn't get to play an entire game. I used the exact setup ad posted and I have to say I liked it a lot for the quarter and a half I got in. I thought maybe the acc and speed would be to close together but it really wasn't. I am going to try this for an entire game and see how it plays out, with the teams I was experimenting with earlier. Something about the threshold slider is quite odd imo certain numbers whether high or low play completely different with the same sliders.

[JoshC1977]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

I was testing an old OS forum set when we were using 25 thresh. We had this setup for those three sliders:

Offsides:99
False Start: 80
Holding: 99

It was one play for me where I went "ah ha"....the higher FS slider basically "propelled" the O-line downfield. That is never going to happen at 50 FS and thus, minimal downfield blocking which is critical for springing the runs.

The FS and OS sliders give an added burst for the O-line and D-line, respectively. The holding slider allows for shedding to occur.

Now, the holding slider needs to be at or above 80 for proper release to occur. However, I don't want the d-line to get a bigger "push" than the o-line, so I am proposing an 80/80/80 setup for those three sliders..

I'm also adjusting the CPU TAK slider to 25....I think it was potentiating the user TAK too much - too many big hits for user for a 15 TAK setting.

The set, as it stands, is as follows....and I must say....it is much closer to what we want....downfield blocking is back and so is the potential for big run plays. As I said to jp in a PM, our focus will be adjusting the CPU first and getting them dangerous....then we can compensate the User settings if people find them too easy.

[Chedapalooza]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

If you believe that human and CPU sliders play off each other then I fear my feedback may not be accurate since I have to set some of the user and CPU values to mirror rachothr (I have to set both rush defenses to 5 and tackle to 15) (both run block to 35..) etc

[JoshC1977]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

If you believe that human and CPU sliders play off each other then I fear my feedback may not be accurate since I have to set some of the user and CPU values to mirror rachothr (I have to set both rush defenses to 5 and tackle to 15) (both run block to 35..) etc

That's ok Cheda...keep your observations coming. It was your comment about 5 TAK being harder yesterday that made me think of lowering the CPU TAK.

[Chedapalooza]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

U see Matt's recent video?

[Chedapalooza]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

I feel this point bears repeating and I tried to make it more clear and fluid:


O lineman are NOT faster than RB and WR in real life, Nor are they faster than linebackers and corners... So HOW do they get downfield / out in front of the running backs and receivers on screens and draws? Because football is NOT PLAYED AT MAX SPEED OR MAX ACCELERATION. I played through college. How many times I ever reached my max acceleration or top speed in a game?? I could count on one hand. It's angles, it's timing, it's following and setting up blocking which CANNOT be done properly if I just instantly ran my top 40 speed and said screw the line....

With that being said: I believe 95 is the most accurate threshold BECAUSE of how effective line play is in regards to pulling, getting out in front of screens, and allowing the backs and receivers to set up and follow blocks. Does 95 cut down the speed difference and make players "feel the same" to a degree, of course, but it's supposed to- otherwise your line will never properly block a screen pass and your backs and wr will never wait for a play to develop; they will always be out in front of the play at lower thresholds. Even at 95, you see db's get beat and you see break away runs- but it's because the blocking is there, not because we are banking on a guy with 99 speed to beat someone he technically shouldn't beat. I much prefer and find it much more realistic to see a back find a cutback and accelerate into the open field versus just run by people. The game is not linear.

[jp18]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

I feel this point bears repeating and I tried to make it more clear and fluid:


O lineman are NOT faster than RB and WR in real life, Nor are they faster than linebackers and corners... So HOW do they get downfield / out in front of the running backs and receivers on screens and draws? Because football is NOT PLAYED AT MAX SPEED OR MAX ACCELERATION. I played through college. How many times I ever reached my max acceleration or top speed in a game?? I could count on one hand. It's angles, it's timing, it's following and setting up blocking which CANNOT be done properly if I just instantly ran my top 40 speed and said screw the line....

With that being said: I believe 95 is the most accurate threshold BECAUSE of how effective line play is in regards to pulling, getting out in front of screens, and allowing the backs and receivers to set up and follow blocks. Does 95 cut down the speed difference and make players "feel the same" to a degree, of course, but it's supposed to- otherwise your line will never properly block a screen pass and your backs and wr will never wait for a play to develop; they will always be out in front of the play at lower thresholds. Even at 95, you see db's get beat and you see break away runs- but it's because the blocking is there, not because we are banking on a guy with 99 speed to beat someone he technically shouldn't beat. I much prefer and find it much more realistic to see a back find a cutback and accelerate into the open field versus just run by people. The game is not linear.

I tried this and agree to a certain extent, however by creating the acc by lineman all it did was render speed and acc as a whole useless. While it played fluid and comfortable I couldn't continue to play when a 90 spd 90 acc rb was run by using an 80 spd 80 acc de. I would have reconsidered if the back didn't have a 6 yard lead and would have had to juke or make some kind of movement however this was a straight line out in the open field. After watching replays and seeing 300lb lineman run step for step with wrs and corners in chase I couldn't get over it. Now maybe if rba was jacked up the speed difference would even out but sliders in there current form would be useless.

[Chedapalooza]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

I tried this and agree to a certain extent, however by creating the acc by lineman all it did was render speed and acc as a whole useless. While it played fluid and comfortable I couldn't continue to play when a 90 spd 90 acc rb was run by using an 80 spd 80 acc de. I would have reconsidered if the back didn't have a 6 yard lead and would have had to juke or make some kind of movement however this was a straight line out in the open field. After watching replays and seeing 300lb lineman run step for step with wrs and corners in chase I couldn't get over it. Now maybe if rba was jacked up the speed difference would even out but sliders in there current form would be useless.

I strongly disagree and have not seen such an occurrence in hours of play. That's all lol

[JoshC1977]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

I feel this point bears repeating and I tried to make it more clear and fluid:

O lineman are NOT faster than RB and WR in real life, Nor are they faster than linebackers and corners... So HOW do they get downfield / out in front of the running backs and receivers on screens and draws? Because football is NOT PLAYED AT MAX SPEED OR MAX ACCELERATION. I played through college. How many times I ever reached my max acceleration or top speed in a game?? I could count on one hand. It's angles, it's timing, it's following and setting up blocking which CANNOT be done properly if I just instantly ran my top 40 speed and said screw the line....

With that being said: I believe 95 is the most accurate threshold BECAUSE of how effective line play is in regards to pulling, getting out in front of screens, and allowing the backs and receivers to set up and follow blocks. Does 95 cut down the speed difference and make players "feel the same" to a degree, of course, but it's supposed to- otherwise your line will never properly block a screen pass and your backs and wr will never wait for a play to develop; they will always be out in front of the play at lower thresholds. Even at 95, you see db's get beat and you see break away runs- but it's because the blocking is there, not because we are banking on a guy with 99 speed to beat someone he technically shouldn't beat. I much prefer and find it much more realistic to see a back find a cutback and accelerate into the open field versus just run by people. The game is not linear.

At a high thresh, there is no acceleration, players are playing at max speed the whole time. Acceleration controls how quickly the players get up to full speed - but once you get to a super high thresh, the acceleration values are so close together that they essentially cancel each other out - thus, speed becomes the determining factor. So, the two bolded statements sorta contradict each other....that said.....

The elephant in the room though is that a "realistic" thresh may not be all that reasonable. The fact of the matter is that it comes down to field size relative to player size and the game isn't quite scaled correctly. Those angles you refer to are skewed relative to real life. So, in some way, shape, or form, we have to bend the rules to get the game to play well. It might be using an extreme thresh or some other slider combination, but we're all going to have to bend the rules.

I don't think that there is an ideal solution - we're all going to have to make that decision. I'm preferring to go with a more moderate thresh and then adjust from there. I want the player acceleration to matter, giving players "weight", and that is why I have decided to go down this road. This approach isn't more "right" or "wrong" than any other....but it's the road I want to go down. JP's been doing a lot of testing (thank you sir) and I think we are close.

[JoshC1977]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

jp...clear out your inbox

[jp18]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

jp...clear out your inbox

My bad...cleared!

[JoshC1977]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

55 Threshold Set now posted!!

Well guys, jp18 did some awesome work using speed/acceleration tables and from that work, determined that a setting of 55 threshold is the speed that most accurately portrays all player speeds - LBs don't play too fast, RBs can break away, and WRs can get deep - IF the ratings allow. We both feel that this is the most ratings-based threshold - the gameplay is smooth and the potential for big plays definitely exists....if the ratings allow it. I'm sure jp can fill you all in on his experiments if you'd like to know.

A little about the slider settings and some notable differences between what I have historically used for 1 threshold versus 55 threshold.

Offsides/False Start/Holding = 80: This setup gives this best blend of block shedding, not too much holding, but an equal push for both the O-line and D-line. Blockers get downfield well, depending on their ratings - you will notice a difference though if you try to run traps, counters, or sweeps using low Spd/Acc O-linemen.

KRI/RTK = 25/43: Speeds are more accurately portrayed across the board. As such, we don't need to juice the defenders as much with the KRI slider. You will see a nice mixture of read-react and a variety of pursuit angles based on player ratings.

IG = 65: Much lower, but this really a wonderful setting for this setup. The CPU is aggressive, has great pocket presence, and will do a great job getting their number 1 receivers involved.

CPU RBA = 45: I know that 40 is a nice setting to give the CPU some "swerve". However, the setting of 45 really blends decisive running with evasive running. The CPU does a much better job of hitting the hole for a couple of yards than trying to bounce everything outside (and often getting caught for a loss).

RDEF = 10/10: I love 5/5 too, but 10/10 still allows for great pass defense but allows for some deep completions to be made for both sides.

So...with all that said, here is the set. Give it a shot - we hope you will all enjoy it as much as we have....

[Von Dozier]

Re: 50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

Awesome. Really liked the previous set, gonna try a few games out with this.