Will People Adjust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

[unfriendlyghst]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

IMO, This is just a graphical update and not a mechanical one. I think the pocket is being formed artificially and that it has no bearing on the gameplay.

[wordtobigbird]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

I think when you boot up the game, it should ask something like: "Are you a casual gamer? Or hardcore football simulation guy?" It would then be set for "Arcade" or "Sim." (obviously, you could change this setting at any time). And then the game should play VERY differently on the different settings. Arcade would have less penalties, be easier to pick up and play (default to Gameflow play calling), have a faster game speed, all players would have crazy end zone celebrations, there would be less injuries, etc, etc. "Sim" would have realistic # and occurrences of penalties and injuries, slower game speed, realistic pocket, more realistic stats, etc. etc. There is no reason they couldn't get the game to work for both audiences.

They may even have this setting already (I haven't played Madden in a few years), but the difference b/w an "Arcade" type mode and "Sim" should be very noticeable.. so they could cater to both crowds.. that is my point.

All that being said, I'm very excited for this year's Madden. I like some of the steps they've taken to try to improve the gameplay.

[EDIT: Big FN Deal is right on. Beat me to it.]

This would be great IF Ea could even get the aspects of football down right in the first place, if penalties actually worked in the first place. They have no foundation built to focus on attention to details imo.

Most guys looking for a sim experience already try to do this with sliders and its damn near impossible.

[wordtobigbird]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

If they make it totally realistic I think both casual and so called sim guys will not like it. There will be insane numbers of both sacks and picks. Thumb jockeys will take DE's and become wrecking forces. But it will all depend on its implementation. As said above just because they are attempting this doesn't mean it won't have exploits or A.I. holes on both sides of the ball. I look forward to the challenge, I loose many games now because of bad throws by Rothlesberger (me) usually because of a bad read. So I can imagine how it will be with an intensified pass rush.

In fact I think even us simmers are so spoiled by just waiting till someone comes open, reading the coverage and making a throw in 2-3 secs will be culture shock lol

I disagree.

I play Madden like it's football. I try to make my throws as soon as he finishes his drop. I try to throw the ball before the WR makes his break. I step up in the pocket. I have my sliders set so I dont get more than 3-4 seconds to throw. I can't stand playing against no pass rush. Passing is already too easy with the total control passing.

Why would realism lead to insane number of picks and sacks? If they make a realistic game then there should be plenty of ways to counter the pressure. If you know you have a bad oline call shorter drops, check down to the WRs, call screens against heavy blitzers, slide your oline to the dangerous DE, keep a RB/TE in to block.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

I think some people will complain, but some people have always complained. If what Kolbe has in mind for this game gets implemented, I've been told some people (casuals) are going to HATE Madden in the future. They have been talking about making some drastic changes towards simulation with Kolbe. He's all about simulation, so if he has much to say about it, I would expect a lot of casuals to be very upset with the direction this game is heading.

From what I've been told by people who have played next gen Madden 25, is that you will have a 2-3 second window to throw the ball and make your reads, due to the realistic pocket forming now. The pocket is not going to be forming artificially at all, Clint Oldenburg has been working day and night on this line play stuff and I think people need to be more appreciative of what he's doing. If everyone over there worked as hard as he has, this game would be something very special.

The last thing we want to do is start bashing him and push him away, instead of encourage what he's trying to do, especially before we have ever even played the game.

[wordtobigbird]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

In all the videos EA as shown they had more than 2-3 seconds to throw.. They highlighted the Olines ability to pick up blitzes with the 48192843921 calculations per second. They showed the DE getting pushed down pass Vick and he had an EXTRA 2-3 seconds after that. I hope what youre saying is true because that is realistic. You should only get a couple of seconds. You are suppose to make PRE snap reads. You should know where are you going before you even snap the ball. Once the ball is snapped you are only using those 2 seconds to confirm your read and if anything is wrong you throw the check down. Unless you're a bad QB, then you take sacks and throw INTs.

Just for reference.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

[wech]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

I disagree.

I play Madden like it's football. I try to make my throws as soon as he finishes his drop. I try to throw the ball before the WR makes his break. I step up in the pocket. I have my sliders set so I dont get more than 3-4 seconds to throw. I can't stand playing against no pass rush. Passing is already too easy with the total control passing.

Why would realism lead to insane number of picks and sacks? If they make a realistic game then there should be plenty of ways to counter the pressure. If you know you have a bad oline call shorter drops, check down to the WRs, call screens against heavy blitzers, slide your oline to the dangerous DE, keep a RB/TE in to block.

Do you care to share your sliders? I'd be interested in seeing them. Thanks.

[TeeDogg]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

I disagree.

I play Madden like it's football. I try to make my throws as soon as he finishes his drop. I try to throw the ball before the WR makes his break. I step up in the pocket. I have my sliders set so I dont get more than 3-4 seconds to throw. I can't stand playing against no pass rush. Passing is already too easy with the total control passing.

Why would realism lead to insane number of picks and sacks? If they make a realistic game then there should be plenty of ways to counter the pressure. If you know you have a bad oline call shorter drops, check down to the WRs, call screens against heavy blitzers, slide your oline to the dangerous DE, keep a RB/TE in to block.

I think we are actually on the same page. I play my game exactly like you described. What I was getting at is with life like pressure from the DEs forcing quick reads and panic throws by "Gamers" should lead to a lot of picks. Until you learn to read cvgs go through progressions quickly, make sound desicions in split seconds. That's going to cause the things I mentioned. And if you hold the ball too long you get sacked. People will have to adjust if they implement it right or deal with high picks and sacks.
IF its implemented right.

[unfriendlyghst]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

From what I've been told by people who have played next gen Madden 25, is that you will have a 2-3 second window to throw the ball and make your reads, due to the realistic pocket forming now. The pocket is not going to be forming artificially at all, Clint Oldenburg has been working day and night on this line play stuff and I think people need to be more appreciative of what he's doing. If everyone over there worked as hard as he has, this game would be something very special.

The last thing we want to do is start bashing him and push him away, instead of encourage what he's trying to do, especially before we have ever even played the game.

I like how you say "this line play stuff" like its all smoke screens and magic and that since we were never in the NFL, how could we possibly know what good, organic, realistic line play looks like.

Truth is, this game gets ZERO right when it comes to FOOTBAL. Just on the line for example, the defense attacks 1 at a time, not as a unit or team. You only see individual linemen in 1 vs. 1 engagements or 1 vs. 2. NEVER 1 vs. 3, 2 vs. 2, 2 vs. 3 , 3 vs. 4 ect.....

Talk all you want about what you've heard, but don't try and say that I'm bashing a dev because I can see through the B.S. marketing.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

I like how you say "this line play stuff" like its all smoke screens and magic and that since we were never in the NFL, how could we possibly know what good, organic, realistic line play looks like.

Truth is, this game gets ZERO right when it comes to FOOTBAL. Just on the line for example, the defense attacks 1 at a time, not as a unit or team. You only see individual linemen in 1 vs. 1 engagements or 1 vs. 2. NEVER 1 vs. 3, 2 vs. 2, 2 vs. 3 , 3 vs. 4 ect.....

Talk all you want about what you've heard, but don't try and say that I'm bashing a dev because I can see through the B.S. marketing.

Clint Oldenburg is a former NFL lineman, he knows what he's doing and he's creating a game that replicates real life offensive line play. I'm not going to sit here and act like I know more than a NFL lineman. I don't believe this is smoke screens and magic at all, I think that what Clint is doing is authentic to the NFL.

As far as your comments on the way the defense attacks, Clint wasn't working on the defensive line formations and schemes. He worked on the pass rush animations, but never claimed to be improving all of the defensive line play. He worked on the offensive line schemes and formations and ai.

They will have someone else probably another former NFL or college defensive lineman come in and work on the defensive line play, most likely next year, as next year is supposed to be about balancing out what was done for the offense this year.

Rex talked about having a subject matter expert for new features from now on, so they are done right and not half way like they were in the past.

[TeeDogg]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

Just to be clear I like what they are doing. I just think if it works like it should people will complain about the results they are getting instead of adjusting like bigbird mentioned

[hoopvillian]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

You guys are crazy if you think they're going to make you do pre-snap reads and have to throw within 2 seconds when 80%+ of the player base has no clue how to read defense!

[jpdavis82]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

You guys are crazy if you think they're going to make you do pre-snap reads and have to throw within 2 seconds when 80%+ of the player base has no clue how to read defense!

Crazy or not, that's where this game is going. People need to take Rex and Kolbe seriously when they talk about pushing for simulation. This is just the beginning of them doing things that may infuriate the casual gamer.

[tfctillidie]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

Clint Oldenburg is a former NFL lineman, he knows what he's doing and he's creating a game that replicates real life offensive line play. I'm not going to sit here and act like I know more than a NFL lineman. I don't believe this is smoke screens and magic at all, I think that what Clint is doing is authentic to the NFL.

Show me a lineman who will remain engaged in a block, when he's fully turned the OL to the side and is no longer in his path to the QB.

[unfriendlyghst]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

Rex talked about having a subject matter expert for new features from now on, so they are done right and not half way like they were in the past.

You just let me know then when they spend that 1rst round pick on a weatherman, er, METEOROLOGIST, so that the wind meter isn't BACKWARDS for a 4th straight year.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Will People Adust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

The problem I see happening with Madden next gen is not enough realistic elements combining with the new line play. The db's still moving unrealistically to defend plays. Receivers not running better routes or fighting for the ball with more realistic catch animations. QB's still throwing at receivers and not spots, also being too accurate. Just too many missing elements to make a good difference this year.