Next Gen core engine is the same

[steelersfan77]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

If you have competition you're going to do a little more, go the extra mile.

It's always been that way.

[Jetpac]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

I'm one of the few who actually thinks madden is on the right track. Madden 14 made a huge leap from being robotic and played pretty well. I didn't buy Madden 25 CG but I bought NG and it is good. Like I will be playing the crap out of this game good.

I feel 90% of the madden forum nitpicks every little thing. And the comparisons to 2k5 are a joke. Anyone who thinks 2k5 is better than Madden 25 is saying that for the attention. I like 2k5 but it's no where near how good this madden plays. As long as EA doesn't repeat 06-13 again, I will be fine. They are already have a better foundation than they did in 06. I think next years madden will continue to improve this year's good start.

I stopped reading after Madden 14.

[bkrich83]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

What does NBA2K have to do with anything? Isn't this the Madden Next Gen section?

Ask the people that brought it in to the conversation, don't ask me.

[bkrich83]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

Then what exactly is your point, because no one else is seeming to understand it either...

You said that a need for an engine overhaul can be said about NBA 2K and MLB The Show. I responded to that by saying that's untrue because those games are much farther along in maturity of replicating their sports and presenting their sports than Madden, and therefore didn't need an overhaul.

Yes, everything is an opinion. But let's not pretend that Madden is on the level of either of those games. NBA 2K has its issues, but it was/is the best basketball game around. They beat Live on the court, not at the licensing table like Madden had to do to beat its competition. So in the case of NBA 2K and The Show, they beat their rivals through simply producing a better product. And The Show's victory is particularly commendable considering they did it while having a game on just one console.



I'm willing to entertain that idea, I just need you to name one better example. I'm all ears.

As far as I can tell, the market has spoken and it chose NBA 2K and rejected NBA Live, and for reasons that are well documented. That's not deception, that's consumer demand. Madden remains alive only because that choice to choose another NFL Football game was taken away.

The point was, the original poster stated this game is based on the "old" game engine with some new pieces added to it. I simply stated you could say the exact same thing for The Show or NBA 2k. It's not that hard.

As far as what's better at replicating what or what's further along, that's simply opinion. I love NBA 2k14, but imo, it's taken a step back in many ways. The Show for example is starting to show it's age, and even for die hards like me, starting to become stale. Point being when it comes to not "starting over from scratch" in sports game, that's not a Madden only issue.

I am not sure what NBA Live has to do with NBA 2k's quality unless you are saying market share = quality, in which case I strongly disagree, see NFL 2k series vs. Madden series for my argument there.

I don't want to get in to the whole 2k vs. Madden licensing debate. I was as big of a 2k fan as there was when it came to football, I have friends on that dev team and some of my ideas made it in to that series on the field and off, but it was almost 10 years ago, and that tired agenda is irrelevant. Nor is 2k getting back in to the football game business any time in the near future, if ever. Exclusive licensing was a bad deal for us all, everyone knows that.

Gee, that sounds familiar....

It does, which is why at this point, it is what it is. Anyone holding their breath for some magic huge jump is wasting their time.

[slick589]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

I think it actually took a few steps backwards from CG. true step is overrated and doesn't make the ball carrier move realistically in a lot of instances, at least not for an NFL RB. And 3 player physics is none existent n the PS4 I thought I just needed the right sliders but I cant find any. that was one thing that had me hooked on the 360. I saw some posts saying M25 needed gang tackling, I wondered what they were talking about. but after getting the next gen version I see what they meant. but on the 360 I could come and clean up the ball carrier without the original defender popping off. im not seeing players on the ground reaching out and slapping the ball carriers foot as he runs by causing stumbling. Not seeing ball carriers contextual awareness, ducking under to lunge for an extra yard, pushing defenders hands away.
I still think its a solid game but I was hoping to see all the things that made me praise M25 360 even if they didn't drastically improve

This.

I don't think True Step is a step back, I think it's just implemented incompletely (like a lot in madden). I think/hope it will look and play better once its expanded to every player on the field not just ball carriers and user controlled defenders. I still see defenders go into this super speed block disengage to meet me at the corner when I try to run outside. WR/DB have to resemblance of true step when running routes/ breaking on the ball.

My second biggest issue with the engine is tackling. Every aspect of tackling needs an overhaul from the hit stick to simple wrap tackles. Hit stick is ridiculous and we have WWF style hits that send ball carriers 5 yards backwards, tone it down. Where are the wrap up tackles? I see the same 8-10 over and over again. Besides hit stick and wrap tackles where are the other types of tackles? For god sakes can we get guys lunging/ reaching when they are blocked and the ball carrier runs by them? ( a game from 2004 has this). Where are consecutive hit tackles? When the ball carrier is tripped and stumbling I can't come in and clean him up with another defender. Sure I can make contact with him but the animation continues and plays out the same.

Basically I don't feel a sense of satisfaction when making tackles in madden idk if that makes sense.

[Old Mr T]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

Ask the people that brought it in to the conversation, don't ask me.

What are you talking about? You brought NBA2K into the conversation on the thread's 3rd comment. The 2 comments before that were about Next Gen Madden.

[TjJunior]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

[quote=Bruce LeRoy;2045746606]2K is not getting a pass from anyone , now that I think about it, what did they even do last gen?


Thank you, someone finally said it. I never bought Madden until it was my only option. I was gameday on PS1, 2K on PS2 (gameday didn't do much innovation to me from PS1 to PS2.) I played Madden it was OK, but I would rather spend my money on the Sony or 2K product.

[C_Bailey24]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

Regardless of who or how 2K and The Show got brought up in the thread bkrich's original point is 100% true. 2K made the same minimal "leap" on NG that Madden did. I sparingly play MyCareer and that's it. Defensive rotations are mind-numbingly frustrating. There is STILL clipping and warping going on in rebounding. Player control is way too animation driven and unreliable. Matter of fact there was a video made by Jerseymade(sp?) a couple days after the game dropped that showed your cpu controlled teammates just running out of bounds and making just dumb decisions for no reason at all. So both games are "layered" and if people would nitpick and analyze 2K like they way they do Madden they'd see exactly what i'm talking about.

[TombSong]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

Regardless of who or how 2K and The Show got brought up in the thread bkrich's original point is 100% true. 2K made the same minimal "leap" on NG that Madden did. I sparingly play MyCareer and that's it. Defensive rotations are mind-numbingly frustrating. There is STILL clipping and warping going on in rebounding. Player control is way too animation driven and unreliable. Matter of fact there was a video made by Jerseymade(sp?) a couple days after the game dropped that showed your cpu controlled teammates just running out of bounds and making just dumb decisions for no reason at all. So both games are "layered" and if people would nitpick and analyze 2K like they way they do Madden they'd see exactly what i'm talking about.

With all that said, NBA2K still represents the sport its emulating WAY better than Madden represents football. It would be one thing If 2K was producing garbage each year, or not fixing problems. Then that point could be made.

Madden NG is STILL chasing AP2K8. EVERYTHING you can do in Madden can be done in AP2K8 but the reverse CANNOT be said.

Delayed blitz and Blitz angles to choose gaps can be done in AP2K8

The defensive line play call is not tied to the play in AP2K8 which gives you the ability to call stunts on either side or the middle of the defensive line.

Your defensive linemen(ALL of them) can still move in any direction while engaged with a blocker. They are not stuck in place playing patty cake and can reach for the ball carrier.

Didn't need a NG console to have "True Step" Players move like they suppose to by default.

Could easily switch between left/right cover 3 shell look or cover 2 and cover 1 shells.

Defensive hot routes were called without having to switch to each defender to make the call.

You could increment how far your CB's would play off a WR. Not just the 2 options(press or off) with have with Madden.

You could customize your playbook and have it set the way you ordered it. Not the Hot mess your playbook becomes in Madden when you make a custom playbook.

You could setup packages so you don't have to be trying to do that in between play calls the lame way its done in Madden.

I can send more than one man in motion in AP2K8, cant do that in Madden
(If its in the game its in the game ?)

On the fly audibles , better commentary, formation shifts, interactive sidelines, etc all done in 2008.

[The JareBear]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

This.

I don't think True Step is a step back, I think it's just implemented incompletely (like a lot in madden). I think/hope it will look and play better once its expanded to every player on the field not just ball carriers and user controlled defenders. I still see defenders go into this super speed block disengage to meet me at the corner when I try to run outside. WR/DB have to resemblance of true step when running routes/ breaking on the ball.

My second biggest issue with the engine is tackling. Every aspect of tackling needs an overhaul from the hit stick to simple wrap tackles. Hit stick is ridiculous and we have WWF style hits that send ball carriers 5 yards backwards, tone it down. Where are the wrap up tackles? I see the same 8-10 over and over again. Besides hit stick and wrap tackles where are the other types of tackles? For god sakes can we get guys lunging/ reaching when they are blocked and the ball carrier runs by them? ( a game from 2004 has this). Where are consecutive hit tackles? When the ball carrier is tripped and stumbling I can't come in and clean him up with another defender. Sure I can make contact with him but the animation continues and plays out the same.

Basically I don't feel a sense of satisfaction when making tackles in madden idk if that makes sense.

I think this post is fair and valid.

I like true step because I feel in a football video game you have to almost border on the side of "too sim" than "not sim enough" to limit the limit the amount of "exploit-ability" but I can see why some people may be turned off, even if I don't agree necessarily

[mike24forever]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

*** different thread, same topic, SAME people on "their" side of the fence ***

Do you guys get sick of going around and around with these discussions? Engines, implementation of some technology, what game does or did something better, it is always the same. The only thing that changes are the pink names when people get banned and make new accounts.

[Ace1259]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

Ask the people that brought it in to the conversation, don't ask me.

LMAO WHAT?! You brought up 2k AND The Show in like the third comment.

[dghustla]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

I was one of the ppl who was overly hyped for this game.
Liked what saw in dev trailers. Now playing the game Simply grading EA on what they said they worked on, this is my opinion.

Graphics: F, sure it looks better than PS3 when you zoom in super close. But compared to other next gen games. It looks terrible. I see limbs,equipment, hair going through the player and it looks terrible.

True Step: C-, a step in the right direction. But poorly implemented. The animations are horrible so that really holds this back from being at least a C. But the fact that only the user controlled player and the ball carrier have true step break this game. Try switching on to a defender to make a tackle. once true step is activated the player starts chopping his feet after running at full sprint losing his angle to the ball carrier. Try switching to a safety on a deep pass over his head only to have that player slow down from his full sprint as true step and acceleration boost are activated.

Oline v Pass Rush: C, Running is over power like it was on CG. Run the triple option out of pistol full back/ #2 HB give all game. And the defense can do nothing about it. I sometimes see pockets forming but I'm still seeing QBs with all day to throw. The timing just isn't in sync. WR get open too fast down the field before a pocket ever has a chance to form. When a pocket does form, elite pass rushers are stone walled if they don't beat there man with one of the new speed rush animations.EA needs to go back and watch NFL film. On quick slants i can understand there isn't much of a pocket. But on anything 3 steps and beyond a pocket forms around the Qb in a matter of 2 seconds or less. In madden in 2 seconds the TE is wide open on his out route break 10 yards down field.

Improved A.I.: F-, SAME, SAME,SAME, go to other sites that provide madden "tips" you will see that the same plays they lauded on current gen work on next gen. 1,000 more calculations, I don't see 1. Playing on UT i see the same bogus plays over and over again run to perfection (perfection being breaking the defense and comprising the "A.I"). The players are Robots and not life like at all. They simply play their "assignment" they don't read any keys they don't adjust to what's happening around them. they don't react to plays they've seen before. I put "assignment" in quotes before because the defense does not play like a unit. Each player is oblivious that he has teammates helping in certain areas. Dbs with help outside still give up inside leverage and vice versa. It's rock, paper, scissors, out there in madden.

(I will refrain from talking about A.I. play calling. the cpu never adjust to anything. and will run cover 1 or cover 0 with :40 seconds left up by 6.)

All that being said, the game can still be fun. But EA didn't hit on areas they focused on.

Madden would have been better if they just re did every animation in the game. If these things looked different it would have made the game feel new even if it played the same. That is what other developers did with games that released on current and next gen. As many have said there is no such thing as an ground up engine. I do agree, why would a developer throw away years and years of work. But at least when you put a new coat of paint on an old car, Its feels new again.

[C_Bailey24]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

With all that said, NBA2K still represents the sport its emulating WAY better than Madden represents football. It would be one thing If 2K was producing garbage each year, or not fixing problems. Then that point could be made

Once again this is ALL opinion and not fact. It's ability to emulate its sport is YOUR opinion and not necessarily mine or a lot of other peoples opinion but you all act as if your opinion is consensus because you have a couple of other people agree with you. Plus we're talking about Next-Gen Madden and 2K. Some of you're opinion is based of of CG Madden and what has happened or not happened over the years.

NBA 2K is notorious for not fixing problems. See the 2K forums concerning Association, clipping and warping, online gameplay and myriad of things that have not been "fixed" or made worse within the last few versions.

All those things you laid out that Madden should have are valid points but there are plenty of things that can be added to 2K, The Show and any other sports game you can name. I'm not defending Madden i'm moreso laughing at the pedastal you all are putting 2K on. It's laughable. I think a lot of people have gotten caught up in how pretty next gen 2k looks and are getting a little blinded in their opinions and statements. So i stand by statement that NEITHER game made a significant leap to Next-Gen so this Madden bashing is really silly at this point. It could also be argued that 2K is actually worse but then again it's all about who you ask.

[pacman5769]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

This thread is why I quit reading alot of posts on here..if anyone doesnt think the next gen version plays better than current then they will never be satisfied...I dont know what you expect from a "video game" its never gonna be like you can call the plays and they play out exactly like you see on Sunday..
I've come to the conclusion all the negative crap that alot of you spew is just that..crap and you will never be satisifed until they put you on the sidleines in a real NFL game...and then you'd probably complain about something