Was/has there been any franchise info released?

[thudias]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

Does anyone else have a problem with scouting players and not being able to stack them on a board for drafting? You know like one that all the teams use. We should be able to grade the players we scouted. As it sits right now it is virtually impossible to keep track of who you really want what round you target them in. We are really given no reason to move up or down the board within a round because how the scouting is. All the rookies are in one list and you can sort by position, drafted speculation and a couple of potential attributes... SO weak.

[bucky60]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

If Madden is directly taking away user control with a feature add or change, they are doing something counter to the rest of their game design and thus weakening the cohesiveness of their total package.

How does an optional Auto-Pass weaken the cohesiveness of the total package? Or take away user control?

How does an optional realistic progression system weaken the cohesiveness of the total package, or take away user control?

[Hooe]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

How does an optional Auto-Pass weaken the cohesiveness of the total package? Or take away user control?

It doesn't, because it's also an incredibly easy thing to add which is disabled by default and most users will never even know exists. It's just (more-or-less) a booelan flag which keeps the CPU passing AI on even if the user has control of the passer; i.e. minimal effort to implement.

How does an optional realistic progression system weaken the cohesiveness of the total package, or take away user control?

Because it takes away resources from something that would add control. It's counter to the progression paradigm which is already in the game, which gives the user as much control as possible. It's duplicated effort for the same feature because a player progression mechanic already exists, which means this community at-large would likely get up-in-arms about Tiburon wasting their time working on a second method for the same game mechanic rather than adding new game mechanics into franchise mode. Finally, it arguably already exists in the game; just go to the progression screen, press Y / Triangle, and all the XP is spent by each player automatically based on however the AI best sees fit, absolving the player of the responsibility to progress players on his own.

Adding a second progression system is wasted effort.

[Jr.]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

I'm interested to see what direction this group takes CFM with their intent on delivering a dedicated sim gaming experience.

CM, I think you make some good points, but I think if the devs really are intent on making the game more of a simulation experience, there are some things that need to be overhauled and redone because they are not simulation at all. Scouting and the XP system, just to name a couple.

[bucky60]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

Finally, it arguably already exists in the game; just go to the progression screen, press Y / Triangle, and all the XP is spent by each player automatically based on however the AI best sees fit, absolving the player of the responsibility to progress players on his own.

You still have to earn your XP with unrealistic methods.

Adding a second progression system is wasted effort.

A positive addition to the game is not wasted effort. Continually going through a cycle of adding, removing, and re-adding the same features has been the wasted effort.

[ItsOrangeBaby]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

All I need is to hear that they added a create a draft class feature that you can share online and make on a app or website.

Tapatalk を使用して私の HTCONE から送信

[Hooe]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

I'm interested to see what direction this group takes CFM with their intent on delivering a dedicated sim gaming experience.

CM, I think you make some good points, but I think if the devs really are intent on making the game more of a simulation experience, there are some things that need to be overhauled and redone because they are not simulation at all. Scouting and the XP system, just to name a couple.

Scouting isn't fun at all right now, and I hope the mechanic is ripped to shreds and started over, haha.

The biggest failing of the XP system IMO is that the progression user interface is cumbersome and terrible. The user really needs to be able to increase his players' abilities more than one point at a time and to easily see the total effects of his changes upon his players' OVR and sub-overall ratings easily before spending any XP.

Insofar as realism is concerned, I'm going to just come flat out and say it - realism doesn't always make a fun video game. I've never felt more robbed in a video game than in a previous football video game with completely automated progression than the time when I won the Super Bowl and my young Pro Bowl quarterback went down five points overall for no specific reason. Realistic? Perhaps, I suppose I can't control if my player gets into a car crash in the offseason or if he's a Derek Anderson-esque flash in the pan. From a video game perspective, though, I flat-out quit playing franchise mode in that game because I felt I was not properly rewarded for playing well, and the reason as to why I was not rewarded was not communicated whatsoever.

At the very least, the current XP progression system makes sense in that it offers a strong gameplay feedback loop; play well in the game and achieve statistical milestones, your players get better. Realistic or not, that gameplay loop works, and there are countless examples across video games of that gameplay loop being an effective one. It's strong game design, assuming proper balancing.

[Ueauvan]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

given that the NFL has granted the license to EA then they force me to play a video game, EA then chose to stop PC versions after 08. therefore console has to do everything.

my previous note about schedule, i have to find and define the days as i want. that happened in 2k. if i have a young secondary id spend more time on film and technique, vet players id make sure they were as robust as poss. how do i develop coaches etc. thats interesting

i never could master the bench press in older versions because my hands are too arthritic, so the option of me directing what i would like to try is attractive

[BlackBetty15]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

Scouting isn't fun at all right now, and I hope the mechanic is ripped to shreds and started over, haha.

The biggest failing of the XP system IMO is that the progression user interface is cumbersome and terrible. The user really needs to be able to increase his players' abilities more than one point at a time.

Insofar as realism is concerned, I'm going to just come flat out and say it - realism doesn't always make a fun video game. I've never felt more robbed in a video game than in a previous football video game with completely automated progression than the time when I won the Super Bowl and my young Pro Bowl quarterback went down five points overall for no specific reason. Realistic? Perhaps, I suppose I can't control if my player gets into a car crash in the offseason or if he's a Derek Anderson-esque flash in the pan. From a video game perspective, though, I flat-out quit playing franchise mode in that game because I felt I was not properly rewarded for playing well, and the reason as to why I was not rewarded was not communicated whatsoever.

At the very least, the current XP progression system makes sense in that it offers a strong gameplay feedback loop; play well in the game and achieve statistical milestones, your players get better. Realistic or not, that gameplay loop works, and there are countless examples across video games of that gameplay loop being an effective one. It's strong game design, assuming proper balancing.

I agree man. Scouting really lacks in Madden. Whats the point of hiring or firing a scout when your the one technically doing the scouting. I wish they would put more of a focus on the "scout" per say. I can't remember what game it was (CH2k8 maybe?) they had the scout go to a certain player you chose, and they would be there a week time to fully scout that player. You couldn't do anything else with that scout for the week once you chose the player he was going to see and the method in which he was to scout him (tapes, call, visit ect..) They really need to redo the whole draft process from the start of the season to draft day. things of note:

1. The combine
2. Scouting aspect I mentioned above
3. Editing draft classes (make it before the season only)
4. Before the draft, let us make our BIG BOARD. Currently it stinks
5. Have Rookie OTA's after draft to see what you got
6. Have owner input or even owner trump scenarios if your a coach in CCM. As an owner have a coach want scenario and as an owner if you go with or against the coaches/fans want then it affects chemistry.

[Jr.]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

Scouting isn't fun at all right now, and I hope the mechanic is ripped to shreds and started over, haha.

The biggest failing of the XP system IMO is that the progression user interface is cumbersome and terrible. The user really needs to be able to increase his players' abilities more than one point at a time and to easily see the total effects of his changes upon his players' OVR and sub-overall ratings easily before spending any XP.

Insofar as realism is concerned, I'm going to just come flat out and say it - realism doesn't always make a fun video game. I've never felt more robbed in a video game than in a previous football video game with completely automated progression than the time when I won the Super Bowl and my young Pro Bowl quarterback went down five points overall for no specific reason. Realistic? Perhaps, I suppose I can't control if my player gets into a car crash in the offseason or if he's a Derek Anderson-esque flash in the pan. From a video game perspective, though, I flat-out quit playing franchise mode in that game because I felt I was not properly rewarded for playing well, and the reason as to why I was not rewarded was not communicated whatsoever.

At the very least, the current XP progression system makes sense in that it offers a strong gameplay feedback loop; play well in the game and achieve statistical milestones, your players get better. Realistic or not, that gameplay loop works, and there are countless examples across video games of that gameplay loop being an effective one. It's strong game design, assuming proper balancing.

I totally agree with the progression system you're referring to. I actually don't know of a sports game that has really gotten progression right. I have some ideas about how it could work, but I'm not naive enough to think they would ever get implemented because I list them in a thread on a discussion forum.

I do think Madden has something that could make progression seem more realistic in the Production attribute. I don't know how that's weighted into the calculation of the OVR rating, but if they based OVR mostly on that rating (i.e. stats/awards/etc), then adjusted that based on position specific atts and physical atts, I think that would be a good base.

Let's face it.. real life progression is just an interpretation of someone's statistical output (production) combined with their physical skills.

The main thing I hate about the XP system, is that players don't get better by performing well. Their performance is a product of them getting better through practice/conditioning/working out. It goes in the wrong direction in my mind.

[bucky60]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

Insofar as realism is concerned, I'm going to just come flat out and say it - realism doesn't always make a fun video game. I've never felt more robbed in a video game than in a previous football video game with completely automated progression than the time when I won the Super Bowl and my young Pro Bowl quarterback went down five points overall for no specific reason. Realistic? Perhaps, I suppose I can't control if my player gets into a car crash in the offseason or if he's a Derek Anderson-esque flash in the pan. From a video game perspective, though, I flat-out quit playing franchise mode in that game because I felt I was not properly rewarded for playing well, and the reason as to why I was not rewarded was not communicated whatsoever.

At the very least, the current XP progression system makes sense in that it offers a strong gameplay feedback loop; play well in the game and achieve statistical milestones, your players get better. Realistic or not, that gameplay loop works, and there are countless examples across video games of that gameplay loop being an effective one. It's strong game design, assuming proper balancing.

For me the strong feedback loop makes the game far too static. I know who is going to progress, how much, and in what attributes. I've never been more bored with a franchise than I am with such static outcomes. It takes away for the dynamic experience which takes away from the off-season strategy. Boring is being able to make any player great. Boring is being able to force progression and having it be so static. Your strong loop is also in direct conflict with game balance. Stats creating progression only gives more stats. Realistic progression, where progression helps drive stats makes it much easier to have a proper balance.

[Hooe]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

Your strong loop is also in direct conflict with game balance. Stats creating progression only gives more stats.

It's not my strong progression loop. The XP mechanic is a staple of the entire video game industry.

It's in sports games. It's in first-person shooter games. It's in role playing games. It's in mobile games. It's in MOBAs. It's in real-time strategy games. It's in racing games. It's in damn near everything. Video game players eat up XP loops, because the amount of progress they need to improve their character is immediately quantified, the tasks to reach those goals are discrete, and it immediately creates sub-objectives and sub games within the high-level game. It's addictive. It's "I gotta grind out one more level before I cut this game off." It keeps players engaged with your game and therefore keeps players in the game therefore earns the game maker money from free word-of-mouth advertising by said gamers talking about what games they are playing and enjoying.

This is not just my argument. This is the entire video game industry. The support for the mechanic is in the games that sell. The support for the mechanic is in the studies done upon it explaining why it works, what motivations it triggers in a player's brain to explain why they enjoy it. Stats to create more stats is the entire point; you play well in a game, your character gets stronger and earns more abilities so you can play against more challenging and interesting characters.

If you have a problem with XP loops in general, might I suggest that video games with XP loops (which is most of them, anymore) simply aren't for you? Your opinion - though you are free to hold it - is quite literally at odds with twenty to thirty years of trends in the video game space and absolutely not the view of the overwhelming critical consensus on the matter.

[bucky60]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

It's not my strong progression loop. The XP mechanic is a staple of the entire video game industry.

It's in sports games.

It just started in sports games. It's been in RPG where CHARACTER BUILDING/LEVELING UP is part of the game. Where it actually belongs. In games of fantasy. Sports games are completely different. They emulate something in real life. Player improvement is a huge part of that emulation in franchise modes. This XP mechanic just started in sports games.

If you have a problem with XP loops in general, might I suggest that video games with XP loops (which is most of them, anymore) simply aren't for you? Your opinion - though you are free to hold it - is quite literally at odds with twenty to thirty years of trends in the video game space and absolutely not the view of the overwhelming consensus on the matter.

I have a problem with XP loops in sports games. I prefer realism in sports games. If I want fantasy like Skyrim or Fallout, I'll pop those into my PC. This XP trend in sports games has not spanded over thirty years. It's been like 2 years so far.

[Hooe]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

I have a problem with XP loops in sports games. I prefer realism in sports games. If I want fantasy like Skyrim or Fallout, I'll pop those into my PC. This XP trend in sports games has not spanded over thirty years. It's been like 2 years so far.

XP loops don't belong in first-person shooters either, yet one of the biggest reasons Call of Duty multiplayer got as big as it has and why that franchise is now the most lucrative piece of boxed media in all of entertainment is because that game has an addicting-as-hell feedback loop which rewards players for playing and playing well.

XP loops don't belong in Forza Motorsport either, yet one of the biggest draws and components of the game design of that game in its recent iterations is the concept of player level, which rewards players for driving racings, driving races safely, and driving races quickly and placing well. Over time, the player accrues XP and with that XP earns reward cars with which to compete against faster cars on different courses at different events. Forza has arguably overtaken Gran Turismo as the king of racers in the console space at this point, and its feedback loop to keep the player engaged is in my opinion a huge reason why it has been so successful.

You can't blame sports game makers for merely following the trends of the rest of the video game industry to cater to a wider player base. Video game companies make games with the intention to sell them and make money; the games happen to be carefully designed to meet the wants of what the vast majority of players want to play, so that those players will want to buy their games and play them so said company may make more games. It has nothing to do with realism, it has everything to do with keeping players of the video game engaged in the game.

I'm sorry that you are not one of these players, but with the exception of text simulators the industry has by-and-large moved on from where your interests lie.

[bucky60]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

XP loops don't belong in first-person shooters

First person shooters are like role playing games. XP loops make more sense.

XP loops don't belong in Forza Motorsport either

Racing games, golf games, are more like role playing games than sports games. XP loops make more sense.

You can't blame sports game makers for merely following the trends of the rest of the video game industry to cater to a wider player base. Video game companies make games with the intention to sell them and make money;

When the company advertises simulation and realism, and they removed any choice via exclusive license, yes I can blame them for not making realism an option.