Suggestions on fixing robotic animations

[wordtobigbird]

Re: Suggestions on fixing robotic animations

What I love about Fifa is the options they give you at running. If you use that RT at the wrong time your player sells out, but just like in real life, momentum carries you forward which limits quick sudden movement. I had to learn how to use space, when to run, walk, jog etc.

I haven't played Madden 25 but from what I read about it, the mechanics should have been a lot like fifa. LT slows you down, LS is normal speed while RT is full out spring. For those that have played, is it implemented the right way?

definitely doesn't work in that sense. in FIFA they have 4-5 different types of dribbles along with your tempo. Madden is just your either sprinting or your not. there isn't the precision like FIFAS L1/LB dribble or the punishment for sprinting at the wrong time.

Maddens controls are checkers to FIFAs chess.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Suggestions on fixing robotic animations

Operation Sports member, Valdarez, makes a solid point potentially to why Madden has robotic animation. There may certainly be other factors, but the following might be part of the problem.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...sively-45.html

I'm not sure what you mean by refresh rate, but Madden NEVER had a 30 fps rendering rate on any title released last generation (XBox360 / PS3). It's why the game looked so choppy. Last I heard was average rate was 21 fps with an occasional 24 fps burst, depending on the situation.

Rather not say as I don't have their permission to share. It was someone on the Tiburon team though in 2011 time frame.

It's why it's misleading when they say the game plays at 60 FPS. It does 'play' that fast, meaning decisions in the game are made in that time frame, but updates / rendering of the graphics only occur roughly 21 FPS due to the design method they chose. That's why everyone thinks the animations look so choppy / robotic. Hoping rendering issue was fixed in the the move to next generation (XBoxOne / PS4).

Nope, you'd think, but their marketing push of 60FPS gaming bowled folks over. It's why the game looks so choppy. If EA games is what you primarily play, then you might not notice it as much, but coming from a 2K game to Madden on last generation was extremely jarring. If you ever want to test it, run a play and watch it play out, and then go into a replay and play it out in slow motion. It's remarkably smooth in slow motion, yet choppy as can be when played in real time. That's due to missing frames. Our mind tries to fill in those frames, but our mind can only do so much.

We had several discussion on the board about it back then, and EA's reps at the time wouldn't touch the topic on any level. Definitely a hot potato.

I imagine after the move to next generation is complete in two to three years, EA will be more willing to divulge issues like this more openly (as they hype / prop up something new).

[Haval93]

Re: Suggestions on fixing robotic animations

Operation Sports member, Valdarez, makes a solid point potentially to why Madden has robotic animation. There may certainly be other factors, but the following might be part of the problem.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...sively-45.html

That's really interesting to hear. Not surprising as other games do this as well for rendering. Rendering at ever 30th of second and while running the game at a 60 frames per second for physics and other things allows the game to save performance and add more visual effects such as a higher resolution and such. EA Sports UFC also does this method for their game.

[backbreakerfan]

Re: Suggestions on fixing robotic animations

No game is perfect. If you could take specific elements of different football games to make the near perfect game which elements would they be? I played a game of back breaker and never saw the same tackle twice. Saw many pile ups and game tackles. Still, not a perfect game though...what would you take from Madden, BB, NFL 2K? Its an intriguing questions.

One of the animations that's been in the game for years that drives me crazy is the one where the running back gets hit in the back field, before he can get any momentum going forward. He will then proceed to somehow go into a spinning animation that allows him to fall forward for 6 yards. It wouldn't be a huge deal if it happened once in a while, but you can play a SINGLE game and see it no less than 10 times. It's ridiculous. This particular instance is one of many that cause me to want to throw my controller through the TV. It's not the outcome, it's HOW that outcome came to be. These plays tell me the game is scripted. How can I be proven wrong in this case? I got into the back field, hit the guy while he was flat footed, yet he continued to go into an animation that is not possible to do from a physics standpoint given the context of that situation.

That is the kind of crap that makes me put it down and is the root of so much frustration with this game. It should be more organic. Any reasonable person knows it is software, so it won't be exactly right all of the time. No game has ever been that way, but it needs to be right 95% of the time. Fool me into thinking things are not pre-determined and that the players have life to them. Playing in an online league you get to the point where you are numb from these types of things. You start hearing terms and phrases like, "got screwed by the game", "I was maddened"... These things come from these types of scenarios. Some of the animations look fine. It's the player interactions that happen in the wrong context that make it look terrible. Not to mention, the synchronized animations are just AWFUL. Seeing two or more players doing the EXACT same animation at the EXACT same time is one of the biggest immersion killers in any game, and I've yet to see a game that is even close to being as bad as Madden in this regard.

[Mr.Smif]

Re: Suggestions on fixing robotic animations

The ONLY way that Madden is ever going to improve dramatically and make those of us who want a true sim-game happy is to take a year off and start over. Just throw out everything they have and start from scratch for the new-gen systems.

I am absolutely blown away at how sad and pathetic the new game looks. Players movements are beyond belief and the announcing is even worse, if that's possible.

Take a year off and start over from the bottom up... Of course they won't do this because it would cost them too much money. But that's the only way for this series to be salvaged and turned into a great new-gen game.

Not true, they dont have to take a year off. Annual games are a multi-year process, we basically pay $60 for an unfinished product. They need to work towards sim every year and/or have a team behind the scenes, developing, testing, and, implementing new game play technologies. While still releasing the game yearly.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Suggestions on fixing robotic animations

My original intent was to post this in the QB Contain feature thread but later acknowleded it fit better here from an animations perspective.

The content is related to the trenches and contains no mention of hardware, just simple coding suggestions for the current animation library.

To begin, I will allude to what a magnificent mind said in an earlier post, "EA is battling EA": they create remedies which create severe side-effect symptoms.

■They code the O-line to detect every possible rusher pre-snap with very little to no delay in reaction time after the snap to set that block: no stress on footwork, no stress on agility (lateral movements).

▶ O-linemen are also coded to move without fail - you will not see O-linemen trip and fall like defenders do, so they can essentially move to their target unimpeded regardless of the other characters (teammates and defenders) that are presented as obstructions on their pursuit path.

Spoiler

O-Linemen should have a realistic human line of sight when calculating their blocks, and targets should only be identified as those within their line of human sight.

While head-tracking post snap: there should be a delay in reacting to the new targets that enter their line of sight, like a defender sorting through and reacting to receivers that enter his zone or a DB reacting to a cut.

These stressess on the discipline and excellence of reaction time and footwork and hip agililty on lateral movements must be imposed upon the O-linemen in an effort to give a more life-like interaction in the trenches.

The delay in reaction times and realsitic pocket movements would open a new can of worms in the form of chip and one hand steer block animations that consist of a lineman or backer just barely getting out there and only able to get one hand on the defender to slow him down but it would dismiss the suction tactic which is not available in real life.

■They code the D-line for CPU to not accelerate and burst out of their launch stance let alone sort through the *array of passs rush moves that are available to them.

Spoiler

CPU dedenders should attempt any move regardless of its effecacy or have generic moves for those who do not have pass rush traits enabled so they can at least claw or crawl their way to the QB - the point I am stressing is pursuit: get to the QB, get to the ball! Fight; don't patty-cake when you have a clean angle to the QB: disengage and go. Don't stay in contain as the QB approaches you edge - go!

They do all this to give the user more safety in the pocket and to circumvent for the dreaded nano sacks but it is not like we would conversely praise EA Madden for implementing suction blocks and OP psychic sorting calculations for blocking.

Football Tactics: Real vs Unreal

More fundamental Football tweaks to the nuts and bolts of this game will go a longer way in steering us towards simulating realsitic (canned or uncanned) outcomes than implementing cheap, gimmicky tactics.

I see from the real life game of Football that the war in the trenches is a bloody mess on every play with new random interactions every snap; the more perfectly clean and scripted it is programmed to be in a videogame: the more unnatural it looks.

Offensive Tackles should be programmed to immediately drop back deep (give depth) when aligned against elite speed rushers and thus the RT and LT should be enveloping their now "entrenched" QB in preparation to seal him off from the edge rusher - this would then allow for the defense to volley back stunts or have the edge rusher rip inside.

Less gimmicks in the trenches will lend us more pocket fluidity and an overall more seemless interaction between multiple defenders as there would no longer be a vacuum cluster of static commands.

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